Interest-based student loans or Missing Salah?

[Shirib]

The whole story and notion is stupid and you shouldn't go throwing yourself or your aunt under the bus. She said you should pray, you bring the fact that she's taken interest, she brings up another sin of your and we could go in circles for days.

The point is not me missing the Salah, the point is at how some regard missing the Salah more dangerous and sinful than consuming and buying with interest. This point flew over your heads and now you're taking shots at me, I know well that missing one's salah is wrong and I take precautions against that, however every muslim knows that the warning of " fa'dhunu xarb min Allah wa rasuulihi" is more of a greater sin.

The only shots being taken are of your own doing, you could have made a thread about how bad interest is without the stories that throw people under the bus, and comparing this sin to that sin.

[Murax]

Zubeir,


Bro, Islam is a Deen where You have to be humble and accept Xaqqa Whenever, wherever it is. Its not something where You just argue a point like a debate class. This isn't Christianity. The Ayah's, Hadeeth I brought were clear that leaving the Salah takes You out of Islam. Ribba, should not EVER be compared to the Shahaada and Salah. Ribba IS one of the major sins, and one who takes it Has a chance of entering the Hellfire. However one who doesn't pray whether out of lazyness or whatever is not a Muslim. Although Your Aunt is in danger with Her Haramaat, She is 100% right to admonish You about the Salah as they can take us out of Islam completely.

[Shirib]

Murax,

3 of the 4 madhabs hold the view that missing salah, out of laziness etc. does not make you a kufr. Only outright rejecting it does. Only Imam Hanbal's madhab hold that view that missing a single salah constitutes of kufr.

[Murax]

Murax,

3 of the 4 madhabs hold the view that missing salah, out of laziness etc. does not make you a kufr. Only outright rejecting it does. Only Imam Hanbal's madhab hold that view that missing a single salah constitutes of kufr.

You're right, there is Ikhtilaaf as far as if it makes You a Kaffir outright, or not. However, it is not in the same league as Ribba was all I was saying. Also the fact that leaving the Salah COULD possibly be Kuffr should scare all of us to not playing with Salah.

[ZubeirAwal]

The whole story and notion is stupid and you shouldn't go throwing yourself or your aunt under the bus. She said you should pray, you bring the fact that she's taken interest, she brings up another sin of your and we could go in circles for days.

The point is not me missing the Salah, the point is at how some regard missing the Salah more dangerous and sinful than consuming and buying with interest. This point flew over your heads and now you're taking shots at me, I know well that missing one's salah is wrong and I take precautions against that, however every muslim knows that the warning of " fa'dhunu xarb min Allah wa rasuulihi" is more of a greater sin.

The only shots being taken are of your own doing, you could have made a thread about how bad interest is without the stories that throw people under the bus, and comparing this sin to that sin.

Relax sxb, the salah was relevant as my relative was insisting that I stick to my salah, whilst she recently bought a third home on mortgage (riba), and so I think it's important to note that muslims have forgotten how Riba is a dambi that has societal/global consequences which is why Allah used harsh words against it. You need to chill the hell out sxb

[ZubeirAwal]

No one should play with Salah but Islam does not encourage the abscence of logic and reasoning, we all know not a single one of us has perfectedly kept to our Salah since we began praying, and Allah swt himself said in a hadith Qudsi:

Allah, Blessed and Exalted, says: O son of Adam, however much you call upon Me and place your hopes in Me, I will forgive you without any reservation. O son of Adam, if you have sins piling up to the clouds and then ask My forgiveness, I will forgive you without any reservation. O son of Adam, if you come to me with enough sins to fill the earth, and meet Me without associating anything as a partner with Me, I will come to you with enough forgiveness to fill the earth. Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 3540, Grade: Sahih

I make up for my missed Salahs, but Riba should be noted and taught at muslim community centres, simply because how Muslims now think missing your salah is more dire than consuming and using interest, when the truth is, riba can end you into the 3athaab permanently, simply because if one is a muslim and knows riba is haram but persists, yet at the same time encourages other to hold onto Salah, what kind of caqli is this?

[Shirib]

Don't worry about others consuming riba kid, keep your prayer. You lose that you lose everything.

btw, your whole story is freakin dumb. Why are you going tit for tat with your aunt to begin with.

[Sagal1960]

Five pillars of Islam?

[Leftist]

Ina Subeer(i prefer the somali version of your name. Subeer > Zubeir. We do not have the "z" sound in af-soomali, only "s")

So you don't want to take student loans because you think it is a "grave sin" and you want to be "pure", amirte? Ok, abti. Be pure. Be holy. Don't go to uni because student loans = xaraamz. Don't go out in public because "naago qaawan"and because you have to "lower your gaze".

Meanwhile, your neighbor who just got off the boat after spending a decade in refugee camps WILL take a student loan(xaraamz!, let's stone him!), and will go on to law school/read law and become a barrister, and help not just the family he left behind in xerooyinka qaxootiga, but Muslims who are persectued and have their civil rights trampled on in this brave new world of post 9-11. Or maybe not. Maybe he utilises his "riba degree which has no barakah" and goes to work as investment banker in The CIty and makes a fuq-ton of lacag. Lacag(which again has no barakah, amirite?) which he then uses to build water wells in villages that suffer from annual drought, or an orphanage, or a school; and in the process, positively affects and improves the lives of thousands of human beings.

But hey, at least in your righteous literalist mind, you will still be "purer" than him since you didn't take student loans and he did. And he will be a sinner who has had sex with his mom..............right?

Wrong.

Wantooboo baan ku iri, youngin: take advantage of this incredible oppurtunity you have - the acess to a world-class education and all the doors that it will open, not just for you and your family but for your community at-large. An oppuritnity that your cousins in Burco don't have and (most likely) never will. An opputunriy that you're turning your (Tutsi? Hutu?) nose up at thanks to a woefully misguided understanding of Islam.

Take the bloody loans, youngin, and go to jaamacad.

[Leftist]

I can't believe the nonsensical B.S. that is being passed off as "established fact" on this thread. Worse and more importantly: The ignorance of the ramifications of said B.S.,

OH HAI, TAARIKUL SALAH = KUFR(but genocide & infanticide....eh, not so much of a big deal yacni, they are forgivable sins..but shirk/kufr? IMPOSSIBRU). Ok, Shaykh Genius, you done made takfeer on hundreds of millions of Muslims who don't pray on a regular consistent basis. Muslims like me, who struggle to make their daily prayers, but sometimes just don't do it. Call it laziness, call it apathy. I call it being effin human. You know, human weakness like Nabi Adam eating the forbidden fruit or Nabi Yusuf coming this close to boning his employer's wife. Yeah, that kinda human fallibilty also includes: not praying. Because you're lazy. Or tired. Or just don't want to do it for a thousand and one reason.....or no reason at all. Do you know the ramifications of saying not praying = kufr, or do you just not care as long as you "keep the deen pure from the impurities of innovation"? <----------- Caqli doqon talo malahan

OH HAI, STUDENT LOANS AND MORGATGES IZ HARAM BIKOWS RIBA IZ HARAM. Riba is everywhere. It is fundamentally inescapable The only way you can escape riba is by living in the jungles or the desert. Modern life is built on riba. Without riba, there is no modern life. All the technological advances that make modern life what it is have and continously rely on riba. Do you understand the economic concept of "scale" or the various financial instruments that made it possible for you to buy this ipad or netbook that's you're surfing somalinet.com on for a coupla hundred bucks? What's that? economics is a "gaalo-invented biddah"? Ok, let me look for an example that you can understand, Brother Shaykh. The Xaram al-Makki was constructed through the funds that came from the riba-based economy of oil & gas. Furthermore, all of the saudi construction firms that are building new additions and maintating the Kacbah get their money from, drum-roll, you got it: ZE BANKS!. And what do all the banks in Saudi operate on: ZE RIBA! So go on with your righteous self, Brother Shaykh, let's ban the Hajj on account of the riba that envelopes and encompasses every single aspect of modern life, including the construction and maintencae of Masjid Al-Xaraam. Ogeysiis, Ogeysiis, Ogeysiis: Starting this year, no more Hajj!

If anybody ever wondered why the Muslim world is backassward as fuq, to the point where we can't feed ourselves and have to beg charity and aid from "developed nations", well then, this thread is Exhibit A as to why: a mindless obsession with "purity" and "righteousness" and "kufr" and "shirk" while ignoring the things that truly matter: the welfare, happiness, and progress of the people.

I would personally take on all the RIba in the world and be held accountable for it youmil qiyaamah, if that means that it will save one family in some random refugee camp from one night of hunger. Just one night. Just one family. To me, all the riba in the world is worth that.

[Machiavelli2]

Leftist

The said brother has claimed here more than once how he enjoys University and the many young birds he met. Waa iska sheeko Somali, I eegaa, we are in an era of "look at me". If his parents are wealthy enough to pay for his degree without incurring a loan, the majority of Somali parents are poor with many children. What will they do?

Another scenario of discouraging higher education will be preparing your children for the Young Offender Institution of Feltham since Somali youths are now highly represented there. It is O.K to breed a football team on welfare who become criminals later on, or a student loan to build their future will be a better option? Islam is a logical and common sense religion. These very same people, will start a thread about a wealthy Somali person with the claim that one of their tribesman is the wealthiest of the country. They might ask him handouts and job opportunities.

[Leftist]

Makavelli,

A few years ago, after eid-el-fitr in the parking area, I overheard this "shaykh"(kind of a national figure) gently(have to admit) admonish this middle-aged single mom because she bought a late-model car with bank financing(auto loan). He was using the exact same literaist daleel quoting(devoid of context and reason) that others in this thread are doing. What I should've said(but punked out), in full snark mode, was:

- O Blessed Shaykh: when her 5 year old gets sick with an emergency in the middle of the night , are you gonna get in your car and race them to the hospital

- O Pious Shakh: when her aging cars breaks down on her on the highway for the tenth time and she gets fired from her job; will you pay her rent? Or at least give her a ride to the homeless shelter when she gets evicted?

- O Fadeelatu Shaykh: Can you tell us who exactly gets hurt and what harm to society has occured when this woman purchases a reliable car using a bank loan?

No comment? Then why don't you put a sock on it with the sancitmous "xaraamz!" nonsense and support this hard-working mom insteading of threatning her with hell-fire and being a sworn enemy of Allah.................................for purchasing a reliable vehicle at 2% interest rate.

In the literalist mindset, this middle-aged single mother has become a sworn declared enemy of Allah and His Messenger. Why? Bikows she bought a car with a bank loan. And bikows there is a quranic ayah that says so. Meanwhile, tyrannical dictators(like Homie Mucaawiya) can get away with murder and assasination. Because they are waliyul amr. And it is obligatory to obey the waliyul amr as long as they establish prayer among you. So this mom is actually a worser human being and a worser muslimah than Qaddafi(should I say AUN here?), Siad Barre, or Saddam Hussein. Nacam, akhiii. <--- If you're laughing, don't. These motherfaaraxs are 100% serious. The literalist mindset is one of a single continum: It goes from student loans = xaraamz to making takfeer on muslims who don't pray salat regularly(like me) to making takfeer on muslims who don't think like they do (man lam yukafir al-kaafir fahuwa kaafir) to kidnapping and raping Yazidi girls, because of "what-your-right-hand posses"(grandpa, go on and defend this, akhi)

They don't consider any other factor except their literalist "daleels". As if life is a f-king Jeaoprdy game. As if life is devoid of context and nuance and complication.
I got no tolerance for this nonsense. Especially coming from well-off people with multiple pathways to acess funds and get money. Tell me how a single mom, or a recent imiigrant, is going to coming up with 10k or even 5k to buy a semi-reliable car; or 10k to pay tuition?

They have no alternatives, no answers, no solutions instead of repeating, like parrots, literalist dogma that has been in circulation since Ina Cabdi-Wahaab of Najd, and Ina Taymiya of Shaam before him.

[ZubeirAwal]

Don't compare me to the followers of Ibn Cabdi-Wahhab, healthcare in the UK is free. I am healthy, fit and able. My conscience is clear and I have clarity of mind, why in the hell would I sign and agree to enter into a Riba-transaction? For worldly gains? Is university the only way to prosper in the dunya? What makes you think this fiat-based currency that is in place all over the 'modern' world will stand for another 20 years?

[grandpakhalif]

Leftist compomrised his deen for love of dunya, not surprising. He made Halal what Allah made haram, clear zanadiqa.