How the West Came To Run Islamic Banks

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Optimist
Yeah right. Don't be a moron. Muslims are stupid, ignorant people. There is no chance they will ever dominate anything.

[optimist_1]

Come on America cant beat Vietnam how the hell are they gonna hurt Islamic world???????????????????

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Well, a careful glance around the Islamic world would indicate we can go wherever we want to and you can't stop us. But to add to that, in case you missed it, we have these things called nukes. And we have a LOT of them.

[mizz_chief]

[quote="Kamal35"]There's something muslims have to think about... Why there are so many jew banks and there's not a bank by a muslim comunity? Muslims are always complaining about this kind of complot against Islam, but they do nothing to have newspapers, TV channels, etc, to spread the muslim message through the world. They complain as victims of some kind of conspiracy agaisnt muslim, but they do nothing...

..[/quote]

Kamal,

there is an ISLAMIC BANK OF BRITAIN everywhere in London and other parts of the country, there is also THE ISLAM CHANNEL, and many many newspapers owned by Muslims

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

What the fock is the "Islam Channel"?

[Ducaale004]

^^She is probably refering to the nonprint media or community tabloids that are published on a low budget or without government approval.


DD , If i correct you , it is not about trust or which bank is Sharia compliant but it is about the banks that have the most branches in many countries, including but not limited to Europe , North America and Asia. There are lots of benefits in being an account holder of prestigious banks, esp if you run a multinational business Co's or pursue investments globally. Of course, they are using underhand methods to allure their potential and current Muslim customers but they are doing it in a manner the fits the culture, religion, and needs of their targeted customers.



From how i understood it, Citibank and others are "renting" the money , since there is billions of dollars deposit available . In other words, they rent the money and use it to finance other projects. In turn, they offer their customers (muslims) credit cards, mortgages with no interest charges. It is basically similar to opening a debit account in which you deposit and withdraw as your need arises without fees like the Washignton Mutual and WellsFargo.

[gurey25]

Dhuuse dheer
[quote]what do you mean by 'manipulating' money? Banks neither set the interest rates (the market does along with the Central Bank) nor change the money supply[/quote]
On the contrary the entire economic system derives from banks issuing money into the market
and for every dollar injected into the money supply, an intrest bearing loan is issued.

[quote]I agree that long ago, like 7th century or in developing world today, rich village leaders or strong man lend money to the needy and when they are unable to repay force them into servitude or slavery or whatever. In those cases banning interest charges is sensical.

But outside of small villages and hamlets where market economy is practiced, interest on borrowed money makes sense. The banks need to make money and entrepreneurs needed starting capital. No one is forced to take loans and the person can 'shop' around for best interest rate. But NO free lunch. No one should get a capital to start a business which one day will make him rich and him not pay the 'rent' for the capital.
[/quote]

This is the fractional reserve system man, im sure you know what it is,97% of all ‘money’ now in circulation is this so-called ‘Debt-money’ (ie computer-generated, interest-bearing, for profit ‘credit’), some people, somewhere – be they individuals, families, communities, companies, countries – always have to be in debt (and interest-bearing, grinding, immiserating debt). Thus, for capitalist economics to ‘function’, the misery of debt always has to exist. Put simply, some people, somewhere have to be in debt for the whole unbelievable capitalist nonsense to exist.

No this is as if more relevant today as it was then, intrest is one of the greatest evils,
and not only from the Islamic point of view. All the worlds major religions were firmly against it.
Even jews consider lending money on intrests to fellow jews a grievious sin, if you lend it to others its cool.
Todays fractional reserve system is not that old it evolved out of the practices of some renasaince Italian city states, when they told the pope and the church to go go fok themselves.




[quote]Also interest charges increase the value of money. A dollard that has been collecting interest charges for 2 years is worth more then a one that has been kept at home. Consequently, the person with first dollard will be richer and able to afford to buy MORE. This in turn drives cost up for a short while, since the seller knows the buyer can afforded it but increased revenues affords him to make more products and the price goes down. Everyone benefits[/quote



No it doesnt , it looks like it does but it doesnt.
Look around most of todays money in revolving around the world is not real, its not backed by any assests all it is is numbers numbers stored in computers.
95 % of the currency supply in the world is used in speculation in the money markets and hedge funds. Its not real man the whole thing is a casino with slightly better odds.
only 5 % is traded goods and services, only 5 % is Real.
Try it man , i do , all you need is a merchant account and download the software and you can trade online. I am too cautios by nature but i still make a couple of hundred dollars.
A colleuge of mine quit his job because he was making more for currency speculation than his salary.
All thanks to president Nixon when stopped the Dollar bieng backed by gold and other in 1972
and allowed the free floating of dollars into market.[/quote]

[Ducaale004]

Gurey , Let us not take the topic into the economic system of the west vs the Islamic world, be it capitalist, socialist, democratic socialist or whatever. Let us reveal how they are running Islamic Banks.


I shall come back later. Peace.

[gurey25]

Ducaale western baks are embracing whats called "Islamic banking"
because it really isnt much different from western banks.
Its only a matter of repackaging the service as "Islamic".
Using terms such as Mudaraba and Murabaxa doesnt make the system Islamic.

Nevertheless it is a positive development because it makes lending moeny more responsible, the lending bank takes a much more intimate look at the company borrowing and so major banking scandals are difficult to happen.
Also in the "islamic " banking system all loans are backed by goods or services and the loans are productively used.

This however does not make it Fully Islamic because all muslim countries
still function under the fractional reserve system, which is intrest based
and xaram.
Islamic scholars have worked very hard and used ijtihad to help create islaim banking but they have been twisting and contorting and jumping hoops so they can live with the xaram economic system.
You have to commend them though it is a good effort and a good start.
Inshallah the future will lead to a fully islamic system with intrest free currency and no fractional reserve system.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Ducaale004"]
From how i understood it, Citibank and others are "renting" the money , since there is billions of dollars deposit available . In other words, they rent the money and use it to finance other projects. In turn, they offer their customers (muslims) credit cards, mortgages with no interest charges. It is basically similar to opening a debit account in which you deposit and withdraw as your need arises without fees like the Washignton Mutual and WellsFargo.[/quote]

So they're using depositers money by 'financing' projects...how is that different from conventional banking who use (non-reserve) money to lend to borrowers and pay their depositers interest?

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="gurey25"] Dhuuse dheer
[quote]what do you mean by 'manipulating' money? Banks neither set the interest rates (the market does along with the Central Bank) nor change the money supply[/quote]
On the contrary the entire economic system derives from banks issuing money into the market
and for every dollar injected into the money supply, an intrest bearing loan is issued.[/quote]

When you say on the contrary you mean with regard to Islamic banking and economic system, right?

In market economies like the US and Canada, it is the Central Bank (like the Federal Bank in the US), who meet several times year, set the interest rates. They do so this by buying bonds or issuing them. This increases (decreases) the money supply which in turn forces banks to increase (or decrease) interest rates.

BTW, this is also how money is 'made' or 'destroyed' through raising and lowering of interest rates. Without it, the Western economic system will collapse.

[dhuusa_deer]

Gurey25,

I still don't get your object and Islams object to interest charges. Is it making 'profit' from money? Islamic banks already do that by buying goods and then selling them at higher price.

Gotta run

[gurey25]

DD

Thats where the differance between interest and profit arise.
One can recieve interest on his accumulated money without that money
bieng involved in the creation of other wealth.
This is also where the differeance between money and Wealth also come in.
A farmer , an artisan, a factory worker, or owner.
Anybody invloved in the creation of goods and services is involved in the creation of wealth. Wealth decays, food is consumed so are products and services, but money in todays economy doest decay or is not consumed.

A rich individual does not have to be involved in welath creation, all he has to do is store his moeny in abank where he recieves intrest.
The money does not have to go to businesses it most likely would go towards speculation.

something like 2 trillion dollars per Day is traded in the money markets
only a tiny percentage of that is actual good and services.
and i am qouting 1999 figures, god knows how much growth has occured.


Islam is against the hoarding of wealth and speculation, and it encourages trade and profit.

This may not be relevant to you as a kafir but for the rest of the people reading this is from Surah al baqara 275-279
"Trade is like usury", But Allah has permitted trade And forbidden usury...Allah will deprive Usury of ALL blessing... 0 you who believe! Fear Allah, and give up what remains of your demand for usury if you are indeed believers. If you do not (desist), Take notice of War from Allah and His Messenger ."

[Mowhawk]

Ramdaan Mubaarak all

Guys don't forget that one of Citibank's biggest shareholders, is non-other than Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal of Saudi Arabia.

[gurey25]

Early Ramadan Kareem guys.

You are right Mowhawk, with all its imperfections Islamic Bank still have an Islamic Label and have Financialy trained Religous Scholars on thier board of directors, so its not so bad after all.

It will benefit the muslim world, and we should all take a lead and move your funds there.

I moved my accounts to Dubai Islamic Bank and HSBC which has an Islamic Banking branch.