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Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:37 am
by Sophisticate
^Would you consider him to be out of the fold of Islam?
Not even close! Their ideology has deviated so far from the real islam that it's preposterous that they even have the world Islam in Nation of Islam but I'll keep it simple. What's the first pillar of Islam? Declaring there is no god but allah and Muhammad (saws) is his messenger. Now the first part of that. Tawhid aka the oneness of god and not attributing anything to him. Now that that's clear let's look at the Nation of Islams Ideology.
They believe that god was incarnated in their founder Fard Muhammad. Some believe that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was Gods son. This goes against the first pillar of islam so automaticlaly you rule them out the fold of islam since their attributing god to some human nigga in Brooklyn astagfirullah. Also they aren't obligated to pray five times a day or fast. So right there off the bat they nullified 3 pillars of Islam. Not to mention all the other crazy and stupid shit they do. Like practice and teach xenophobia and racism, they call all white people the devil and also teach anti-Semitism. They also believe this crazy nigga who looks like a
DragonBall Z character created white men, he was some crazy scientist that lived 6000 years ago.
Malcom X was originally part of this cult (yes a cult that's all they are) and eventually left for Sunni Islam. That's when he did the famous Hajj pilgrimage and everything. He realized how wack and different Nation of Islam was to the real islam and also realized the lack of racial discord amongst the real Muslims. He came back to America and made this group i forget what it's called but he pretty much preached we should be proud of our black identity but the real enemy of black Americans wasn't the white man but racism itself. Unfortunately he spoke out against them and shit so they ended up killing him. So yeah Nation of Islam is not even close to the real Islam muffs.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:42 am
by unstoppablefade
Muffled you can't be serious. I actullay read alotta books on Malcolm X and NOI. Everything they do is bogus. Just forget everything I wrote and look at the 12th point on their official site
http://www.noi.org/muslim-program/
Malcolm X knew they were bogus and that's why he called them out
Looooooool soph
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:55 am
by sovlsworn
First of all, please stop speaking to me as If I eat one meal a day. I just own a couple of their books.
Secondly and yet again, you’re referencing second hand accounts of Malcolm X’s views on the NOI. He has never explicitly renounced the nation. If you’re so well-read you should be aware of the FBI plan to undermine black leadership and the NOI. This includes defaming and belittling the main figures of the movement, using the stereotypical “beef” between Farrakhan and Malcolm X.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:03 am
by zidane88
Empty stomach tame lions and empty pocket tame men. ' Anonymous'.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:08 am
by unstoppablefade
I am aware of the US governments plan to undermine the black movement at that current time but that isn't relevant to what I was answering. NOI IS by no means a part of islam and I used malcom.x as an example because he knew it was bogus hence why he switched to Sunni Islam. Ask ur local Imaam if you don't beleive me if that their not part of islam
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:25 am
by sovlsworn
So, if you agree on that. Your Malcolm X argument becomes invalid as far as Malcolm X's reasons for leaving the nation.
Most Imams have little or no understanding of the intricate teachings of the NOI. The argument that many people allege against the NOI is the same argument people use against Islam.
As far as my personal beliefs go, we do not have the jurisdiction to determine who is or is not part of Islam. I see Farrakhan as someone who has made Islam accessible to the African American community. That being said, I for one do not circulate the neighbourhood distributing the Final Call.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:08 am
by unstoppablefade
You're right he never denounced them publicly but take what you will from this quote from a 1965 interview
I realized racism isn't just a black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another. Brother, remember the time that white college girl came into the restaurant — the one who wanted to help the Muslims and the whites get together — and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [black] Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then — like all [black] Muslims — I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years. That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days — I'm glad to be free of them."
Source:
http://www.malcolm-x.org/docs/int_parks.htm
I already told you they believe Allah came down into a human body, how is that Islam
It's clear in that quote Malcom knew they were preaching thew wrong type of islam. Why else would he switch to Sunni islam? Anyways if you wanna believe in NOI go ahead but there are obvious differences between NOI and the real Islam. Sovl idc what you say the original NOI were racist as fuck and Islam doesn't preach that.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:59 pm
by EvolSyawla
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:51 am
by sovlsworn
You're right he never denounced them publicly but take what you will from this quote from a 1965 interview
I realized racism isn't just a black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another. Brother, remember the time that white college girl came into the restaurant — the one who wanted to help the Muslims and the whites get together — and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [black] Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then — like all [black] Muslims — I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years. That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days — I'm glad to be free of them."
Source:
http://www.malcolm-x.org/docs/int_parks.htm
I already told you they believe Allah came down into a human body, how is that Islam
It's clear in that quote Malcom knew they were preaching thew wrong type of islam. Why else would he switch to Sunni islam? Anyways if you wanna believe in NOI go ahead but there are obvious differences between NOI and the real Islam. Sovl idc what you say the original NOI were racist as fuck and Islam doesn't preach that.
RCV, you seem fairly learned in the Nation of Islam in general. I have already made three half-hearted references to the questionable teachings of the NOI (twitter, meals, and newsletters) which you have conveniently overlooked in order to bolster your argument and/or entertain your impressionable cheerleaders.
As for NOI being racist, it is the same claim as Muslims being terrorists because certain individuals are self-appointed jihadists. The NOI teachers’ justice, freedom and equality as a mode of liberation by doing for themselves what years of failed governance were unable to achieve. They do not preach nor tolerate racism or violence as exemplified in the excommunication of Khalid Muhammed from the NOI, a clear mark of disassociating themselves from extremism.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:22 am
by unstoppablefade
like.i said I'm just tryna answer the original question; are they part of or a fold of Islam? I already answered you like 3 times.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:42 am
by Jeffo
I think it's pretty clear cut. They can be close to islam but at the same time the furthest from it. A single tenant can undermine the whole faith.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:43 am
by Jeffo
Nil tam difficile est quin quaerendo investigari possiet.
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:50 am
by Jeffo
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:50 pm
by Libix
Step with care and great tact,and remember that Life's a Great Balancing Act.
Dr. Seuss
Re: Drop a Quote
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:51 am
by sovlsworn
like.i said I'm just tryna answer the original question; are they part of or a fold of Islam? I already answered you like 3 times.
At the time of your first post (argument of Shirk) regarding NOI being out of the fold of Islam, I conceded that it was a fair point. However, after that point and fortunately for me, your “homework” perpetuates recycled arguments on Malcolm X. The claims of racism in the Nation based on hearsay were also baseless. So let’s call it a draw,
