The Messenger's Uncle is not going to Hell, Murderous tyrants will.

[Leftist]

Regardless, at the end of the day, we are the Special Chosen Ones, the Monotheists who will live in Jannah eternally, while they, the Filthy-Wasakh Gaalo with their khamro(biyaha kulul) and “dumb sluts”, will burn in the fiery oven of Hellfire-Jahanam for ETERNITY, bro. Even the most pious Gaal doesn’t have a chance of leaving Hell. Mother Terese? Hell for eternity. Abu Talib, the protector, supporter, and beloved uncle of Nabiga? Eternity in Jahanam for being a filthy MUSHRIK. What a filthy mushrik he was, eh? Tryna believe in idol-worship nd shit. SO WHAT if he lived a honorable, righteous and noble life, sacrificing his life and his money to protect the weak muslim community in Makkah, so what…all of that doesn’t matter cuz that nicca is a filthy MUSHRIK! I keeps it one hunnid like that doe. As for Mucaawoya Ina Sufyaan, Saddam Hussein, Siad Barre and all the murderous tyrants with the blood of thousands of innocent human beings on their hands? They goin’ straight to Jannah, bro (after a very brief stop in jahanam for purification purposes). Don’cha just love being “Muslamic” bro? You can do whatever the fuck you want, kill, rape, murder and it’s all forgiven! If you’re lucky enough, you might even get a “radiyallahu canhu” or a “raximahullah” suffix attached to your name. Kinda like the Chrisitan concept of “the blood of jesus washes away all sins”.

^ I skipped the above paragraph. Focused on the female part. Damn. loool

Leftist,
Are you a perennialist?

Good question, Cherine. Didn’t even know what a perennialist was so I had to look it up.

No, I’m not a perennialist. All of my positions are firmly sourced from the Quraan and the Axaadiith.

So here is my case for why Abu Talib or any other good human being who also happens to be non-muslim is not frying in hell-fire for Eternity, as many Muslims seem to believe.

Waa mida hore, quranic ayah, 2:62:

"Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans – whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve

Waa mida labaad, Ebbe is Just and will provide Ultimate Justice in the HereAfter; where is the justice in Ina Sufyaan(and his son) and Xajaaj bin Yuusuf somehow entering paradise kadib marka ay ku qubaysteen dhiiga kumanaan kun oo maskaakin, while at the same time, Abu Talib who shielded our beloved Messenger and the oppressed Muslim community with his life and money; Abu Talib who suffered along with the Muslim community during their siege/banishment will somehow burn in eternity? That is no justice but a mockery of Justice and it is not different from the Christian teaching of “the blood of Christ washes away all sins, as long as you accept Christ as your Saviour, regardless of what sin you commit, you will go to Heaven”

Waa mida sadaxaad, The Messenger attended the funerals and deathbeds of numerous non-Muslims including and he comforted them in their last hours, and nowhere did he state that they were going to Hell because they did not accept his Prophethood and the message of Islam.

So again: the notion that Siad Barre, Saddam Hussein, and Qaddafi, murderers of thousands writ large, are somehow gonna enter Heaven because they said the Shahadah at the moment of their death, or because they were born "lucky" as the "chosen ones" while righteous upstanding people, like Abu Talib and Rachel Corrie who have literally sacrificed their lives & money for the sake of the oppressed, are somehow going to Hell, is complete and total bullshit and has no basis in Islam.

Scratch that old belief and replace it with this: Good people, regardless of their belief(or lack of belief) go to Heaven; Bad people, regardless of belief(or lack of belief), go to Hell.

You expect me to believe that James Dahl & Grant, who have never written a single indecent word or insult on these forums, are going to fry in Hell merely because they are non-Muslim but Cali-Gaab, who would insult people's mothers on a daily basis, and who would rejoice whenever he would hear about the deaths of entire families in Gedo during famine because they are, in his view, “dee waa Faqash baqtiyey dee” is going to Heaven? Why? Because he’s ”Duriyada Banu Haashim”? Because he’s “Muzlamic by birthright”?

Pure pathetic bullshit nonsense, only way I can describe that “belief”. And if it's established dogma, well then, that's established dogma that needs to be revised, just like the many revisions that we've been through over the past 1400 years. For hundreds of years, tawwasul and tashafuc were not only perfectly OK but mandated by the Deen, and then we woke up one morning, and lo and behold, we're being told it's Shirk(fair point, I agree that it's shirk, just don't agree with the "burning in hell for eternity" part)

Which means, if you believe that, billions of muslims, including your grandfather and great-grandfather all the way to sahal's xawadle Caucasian ancestors, are frying in hell for eternity.....for being Mushrikeen, for doing something they were told was religiously mandated: tawasul & tashafuc.

The Reformation train finna take off, no time for nonsensical dogma. Get to steppin' if you ain't reppin'.

[metamorphosis]

Greetings leftist! You reappear at once every now and then only to publish a collection of thoughts that rely on your logic and rationale. Just because the idea of someone going to hell even thought they might have led a decent life here on earth seems absurd and peculiar to you doesn't mean it absurd and peculiar. The prophet himself said his father and his uncle will go to hell. Sure Abu talib did so much for his nephew and by extension, for Islam, but that is not enough to grant him access to the doors of janah. Blatantly put, you may do the kindest acts in the world and you may spend your entire live never causing a harm to a fly and all that will not get you anywhere unless you are Muslim. You first submit and then you follow it with deeds.

Just because leftist in his enchanted brain think that is unfair won't stop it from happening. Might I also add that you shouldn't speak for grant and James dahl for their true nature and past is dubious to you.

One last point I want to stress is that just because you are Muslim does not mean you will go janah as well. It is not that easy. As far as we know anyone who commits acts such as murder will be punished for that crime and will spend some time in hell.

[FieldMarshalMenace]

Leftist..stop this preposterous blasphemy ...Fah please ban this nacas...go take you medication leftist ..I'm sick and tired of these athiest

[burcaawi14]

Regardless, at the end of the day, we are the Special Chosen Ones, the Monotheists who will live in Jannah eternally, while they, the Filthy-Wasakh Gaalo with their khamro(biyaha kulul) and “dumb sluts”, will burn in the fiery oven of Hellfire-Jahanam for ETERNITY, bro. Even the most pious Gaal doesn’t have a chance of leaving Hell. Mother Terese? Hell for eternity. Abu Talib, the protector, supporter, and beloved uncle of Nabiga? Eternity in Jahanam for being a filthy MUSHRIK. What a filthy mushrik he was, eh? Tryna believe in idol-worship nd shit. SO WHAT if he lived a honorable, righteous and noble life, sacrificing his life and his money to protect the weak muslim community in Makkah, so what…all of that doesn’t matter cuz that nicca is a filthy MUSHRIK! I keeps it one hunnid like that doe. As for Mucaawoya Ina Sufyaan, Saddam Hussein, Siad Barre and all the murderous tyrants with the blood of thousands of innocent human beings on their hands? They goin’ straight to Jannah, bro (after a very brief stop in jahanam for purification purposes). Don’cha just love being “Muslamic” bro? You can do whatever the fuck you want, kill, rape, murder and it’s all forgiven! If you’re lucky enough, you might even get a “radiyallahu canhu” or a “raximahullah” suffix attached to your name. Kinda like the Chrisitan concept of “the blood of jesus washes away all sins”.

^ I skipped the above paragraph. Focused on the female part. Damn. loool

Leftist,
Are you a perennialist?

Good question, Cherine. Didn’t even know what a perennialist was so I had to look it up.

No, I’m not a perennialist. All of my positions are firmly sourced from the Quraan and the Axaadiith.

So here is my case for why Abu Talib or any other good human being who also happens to be non-muslim is not frying in hell-fire for Eternity, as many Muslims seem to believe.

Waa mida hore, quranic ayah, 2:62:

"Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans – whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve

Waa mida labaad, Ebbe is Just and will provide Ultimate Justice in the HereAfter; where is the justice in Ina Sufyaan(and his son) and Xajaaj bin Yuusuf somehow entering paradise kadib marka ay ku qubaysteen dhiiga kumanaan kun oo maskaakin, while at the same time, Abu Talib who shielded our beloved Messenger and the oppressed Muslim community with his life and money; Abu Talib who suffered along with the Muslim community during their siege/banishment will somehow burn in eternity? That is no justice but a mockery of Justice and it is not different from the Christian teaching of “the blood of Christ washes away all sins, as long as you accept Christ as your Saviour, regardless of what sin you commit, you will go to Heaven”

Waa mida sadaxaad, The Messenger attended the funerals and deathbeds of numerous non-Muslims including and he comforted them in their last hours, and nowhere did he state that they were going to Hell because they did not accept his Prophethood and the message of Islam.

So again: the notion that Siad Barre, Saddam Hussein, and Qaddafi, murderers of thousands writ large, are somehow gonna enter Heaven because they said the Shahadah at the moment of their death, or because they were born "lucky" as the "chosen ones" while righteous upstanding people, like Abu Talib and Rachel Corrie who have literally sacrificed their lives & money for the sake of the oppressed, are somehow going to Hell, is complete and total bullshit and has no basis in Islam.

Scratch that old belief and replace it with this: Good people, regardless of their belief(or lack of belief) go to Heaven; Bad people, regardless of belief(or lack of belief), go to Hell.

You expect me to believe that James Dahl & Grant, who have never written a single indecent word or insult on these forums, are going to fry in Hell merely because they are non-Muslim but Cali-Gaab, who would insult people's mothers on a daily basis, and who would rejoice whenever he would hear about the deaths of entire families in Gedo during famine because they are, in his view, “dee waa Faqash baqtiyey dee” is going to Heaven? Why? Because he’s ”Duriyada Banu Haashim”? Because he’s “Muzlamic by birthright”?

Pure pathetic bullshit nonsense, only way I can describe that “belief”. And if it's established dogma, well then, that's established dogma that needs to be revised, just like the many revisions that we've been through over the past 1400 years. For hundreds of years, tawwasul and tashafuc were not only perfectly OK but mandated by the Deen, and then we woke up one morning, and lo and behold, we're being told it's Shirk(fair point, I agree that it's shirk, just don't agree with the "burning in hell for eternity" part)

Which means, if you believe that, billions of muslims, including your grandfather and great-grandfather all the way to sahal's xawadle Caucasian ancestors, are frying in hell for eternity.....for being Mushrikeen, for doing something they were told was religiously mandated: tawasul & tashafuc.

The Reformation train finna take off, no time for nonsensical dogma. Get to steppin' if you ain't reppin'.

Tawasul and Tashafuc istigaatha and tabaruk are points of jurisprudence and not Aqeeda. With that being said the ulama of he schools deemed it permissible and also recommended in some cases. Sadly wahabis with their 10 scholars in 1400 years of Islam hold the loudest voice due to petroleum dollars, thus we have to hear their revision of Islam.

You actually raised some good points, but it would be better to ask a sheikh. The ulama differ on the people who didn't receive the true islam, received it in a distorted form, or were born between 2 messages, while the previous one got corrupted and the latter not revealed. You should read into ashcari books of creed wallahi they're phenomenal and cover many of the topics you wrote above. Ashcari and maturidi are the two traditional schools of islamic sunni theology. Don't waste time reading wahabi stuff, anything they can't understand is either shirk, kufr or bidco. If you know arabic a good sheekh who covers islamic theology properly is Sheikh saeed foudeh.

[LilEmperor]

Im so displeased with religion.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

The way I see it is, we don't know what will happen until we die, so why don't we leave the issue of whether or not Abu Talib will get to heaven and worry about real-world problems like proper governing, clean water supply and good infrastrcuture back home - all of which is missing?

[TheMailMan]

There are no good deeds without Islam. Anyone who lives his life without worshipping or even acknowledging his Creator has wasted his life. And it's foolish to consider your subjective opinions as being universal moral frameworks. It really doesn't work like that buddy, you can't have it both ways.

Islam is the worship and submission to your Creator, and living your life according to His guidelines.

[TheMailMan]

Im so displeased with religion.

I'd expect that from you. Not only do you talk about fuuto-eating, but you support trannies and you're also a qabiilist. You're thoroughly disgusting.

[Cherine]

There are no good deeds without Islam. Anyone who lives his life without worshipping or even acknowledging his Creator has wasted his life. And it's foolish to consider your subjective opinions as being universal moral frameworks. It really doesn't work like that buddy, you can't have it both ways.

Islam is the worship and submission to your Creator, and living your life according to His guidelines.

You need to reflect on that statement there. Lots of people apart from us Muslims also acknowledge and worship a Creator.

Leftist,

Aren't there numerous verses in the Qur'an that say that good deeds must always be coupled with belief in God. You know all those aayat that start with 'i'inn al latheena aamanu wa camul al saalixaata.

[Lamagoodle]

I don't think reformation is needed. What is needed is to put an end to the cult of wahabism/salafism. Bring us back the islam that reigned in Somalia for decades. The tolerant islam. The islam of social cohesion, the islam of not judging others.

For many decades, the cult of wahabism/salafism has been training our "sheikhs". Wahabism/salafism has trickled down on our society; some of the members of these boards are students of this sick teaching. Almost all the sheikhs in Somalia and the diaspora are from the school of salafism/wahabism which is arab culture disguised as islam.

What we are witnessing, my friends, is a new kind of colonialism; salafism/wahabi colonialism. Superficial islam that is concerned with dress code, sex and condemnation rather than matters of faith.

[jalaaludin5]

Whats more despicable than Sadam Hussein, Siad Bare and Ghadafi are two faced incoherent pillocks who think they can change the Deen.

Sound like a little girl on a tv sop opera who just los ther beloved dog and get told his in heaven.
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[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I don't think reformation is needed. What is needed is to put an end to the cult of wahabism/salafism. Bring us back the islam that reigned in Somalia for decades. The tolerant islam. The islam of social cohesion, the islam of not judging others.

For many decades, the cult of wahabism/salafism has been training our "sheikhs". Wahabism/salafism has trickled down on our society; some of the members of these boards are students of this sick teaching. Almost all the sheikhs in Somalia and the diaspora are from the school of salafism/wahabism which is arab culture disguised as islam.

What we are witnessing, my friends, is a new kind of colonialism; salafism/wahabi colonialism. Superficial islam that is concerned with dress code, sex and condemnation rather than matters of faith.

It's an ugly cult that needs to be stamped out. They take all the beauty and intellectualism out of Islam and piss on it in exchange for their cave-man cult.

Can you believe these apes are from the same religion as Imam al Ghazali, Al-farabi, Ibn Sina, The four esteemed Imams etc.

[zumaale]

Leftist, having difficulty reconciling the Islamic belief that a Kaffir can go to hell despite his/her worldly righteousness with your liberalism?

There are so many holes in your illogical rant and yet you claim your views are based on the Quran and Axadith. Wax walan!

[Murax]

First of all the Islam of the above poster is in question.

Inalla Laa Yaghfiru An Yushraka Bih Wa Yaghfiru Maa Duuna Thaalika Liman Yashaa

Verily Allah does not forgive that You associate partners with Him, but forgives whatever is under that to whom He wills. Surah Nisa


Qul Yaa Ibaadiya Ladeena Asrafu Alaa An Fussihim Laa Taqnatu Min Rahmatillah. Inallaha Yaghfiru Thunuuba Jamee'ah. Innahu Huwal Ghafuur Raheem


Say O My slave who has transgressed against Himself, do not despair in the mercy of Allah. Allah forgives all sins.

As Sister Chreine mentioned, A'maal Saaleh (Good Deeds) must go with Imaan (Faith/Tawheed). As for Abu Talib, The Prophet Himself Alahyhi Salaat Wa Salaam said He'd be in the Hellfire, and this is why the Prophet SAW was by His beside begging Him "Quluu Laa Ilaaha Ilallah Tuflihu" say there is No God but Allah You will be successful.


As for Your insult against Ameer Mu'meneed Mu'aawiyah Ibn Abi Sufyaan Radhiyallahu Anhu Wa Ardaah is another sign of Your questionable Islam.

"When my Companions are mentioned then withhold" [Saheeh, at-Tabaranee].

And he also said, "Do not abuse my Companions, for if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a handful of one of them or even half of that" [al-Bukharee, Muslim].

And he said, "Whoever abuses my Companions, upon them is the curse of Allah, the angels and all the people" [Saheeh, At-Tabaranee].


Abu Zar’ah al-Raazi said: If you see a man criticizing one of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then know that he is a heretic.

Imam Ahmad said: If you see a man mentioning one of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in a bad way, then call his Islam into question.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

If a person slanders them in a way that does not impugn their good character or religious commitment, such as describing one of them as being stingy or cowardly or lacking in knowledge or not being an ascetic and so on, then he deserves to be rebuked and disciplined, but we do not rule him to be a kaafir because of that. This is how the words of those who were not regarded as kaafirs by the scholars are to be understood.

If a person curses them and slanders them in general terms, this is an area of scholarly dispute, depending on whether this cursing is motivated by mere feelings or religious doctrines. If a person goes beyond that and claims that they apostatized after the death of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), apart from a small group of no more than ten or so individuals, or that most of them rebelled and did evil, then there is no doubt that such a person is a kaafir, because he has denied what is stated in more than one place in the Qur’aan, that Allaah was pleased with them and praised them. Indeed whoever doubts that such a person is a kaafir is himself a kaafir, because this implies that those who transmitted the Qur’aan and Sunnah were kaafirs or evildoers and that the best of this ummah which is described in the verse “You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:110 – interpretation of the meaning] – the first generation – were mostly kaafirs and hypocrites. It implies that this ummah is the worst of nations, and that the first generations of this ummah are the most evil. No doubt this is blatant kufr, the evidence for which is quite clear.

Hence you will find that most of those who proclaim such views will sooner or later be shown to be heretics. Heretics usually conceal their views, but Allaah has punished some of them to make an example of them, and there are many reports that they were turned into pigs in life and in death. The scholars have compiled such reports, such as al-Haafiz al-Saalih Abu ‘Abd-Allaah Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Waahid al-Maqdisi, in his book al-Nahi ‘an Sabb al-Ashaab in which he narrated the punishments that befell such heretics.

In conclusion, there are some groups of those who slander the Sahaabah concerning who them is no doubt that they are kaafirs, others who cannot be judged to be kaafirs, and others concerning whom there is some doubt regarding that.

Al-Saarim al-Maslool ‘ala Shaatim al-Rasool, p. 590-591.

Taqiy al-Deen al-Subki said:

… This refers to one who slanders some of the Sahaabah. But if a person slanders all of the Sahaabah, then he is undoubtedly a kaafir. The same applies if he slanders one of the Sahaabah just because he is a Sahaabi, because this is demeaning the virtue of the Sahaabah and indirectly slandering the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). So undoubtedly the person who does this is a kaafir. Based on this, the words of al-Tahhaawi, “and hating them is kufr” should be understood as meaning that hating all of the Sahaabah is undoubtedly kufr, but if a person slanders a Sahaabi not because he is a Sahaabi but for some personal reason, and that Sahaabi was, for example, one of those who became Muslim before the Conquest of Makkah and of whose virtue we are certain – such as the Raafidis who slander the two Shaykhs [Abu Bakr and ‘Umar] – then al-Qaadi Husayn stated that the one who slanders the two Shaykhs is a kaafir.

The reason for the scholarly dispute on this issue is if a person slanders a specific person it may be for some personal reason, or he may hate someone for a worldly reason etc. This does not imply that he is a kaafir. But undoubtedly if he hates one of the two Shaykhs because he was a companion of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then this is kufr, and indeed hating any of the Sahaabah who was lower in status than two Shaykhs just because he was a companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is also definitely kufr.

Fataawa al-Subki, 2/575.

[Lamagoodle]

Liquid, actually, most of the islamic scholars and generals were non-arabs.

I was told that b4 1987, no books from saudi arabia were allowed into Somalia. Almost all the scholarships offered by Saudi Arabia to somalis went to somalis from the NFD and Somali galbeed; that is why salafist/wahabi sheikhs (old ones) comes from that part of East Africa.

This cancer has metastasised and nowadays almost all somalisa are followers of this cult. In the spirit of wahabism, every somali you see is a wahabist; every somali you see is more concerned with your dress code, where you put your willy, sex etc instead of what is in your mind.

It is superficial islam.


P.s., you will notice that the wahabi members of these boards would soon cite the godfathers of this cult e.g.Ibn Taymiyah to sell us wahabism