The Hidden History - The Khazar Empire

[Cherine]

Good Lord @ all the copy & pastes. Why are you concerning yourself with their origins? Gegiroor you need to stop being obsessed with these end time ahadith. They are often inauthentic, contradictory & full of garbage.

[AGENT447]

Like anyone is going to read any of that ahahh What a Khasaaro of a time

[gegiroor]

New study sheds light on the origin of the European Jewish population

Date: January 16, 2013
Source: University Press


Despite being one of the most genetically analysed groups, the origin of European Jews has remained obscure. However, a new study published online January 17 in the journal Genome Biology and Evolution by Dr Eran Elhaik, a geneticist at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, argues that the European Jewish genome is a mosaic of Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries, setting to rest previous contradictory reports of Jewish ancestry. Elhaik's findings strongly support the Khazarian Hypothesis, as opposed to the Rhineland Hypothesis, of European Jewish origins. This could have a major impact on the ways in which scientists study genetic disorders within the population.

The Rhineland Hypothesis has been the favoured explanation for the origins of present-day European Jews, until now. In this scenario Jews descended from Israelite-Canaanite tribes left the Holy Land for Europe in the 7th century, following the Muslim conquest of Palestine. Then, in the beginning of the 15th century, a group of approximately 50,000 left Germany, the Rhineland, for the east. There they maintained high endogamy, and despite wars, persecution, disease, plagues, and economic hardships, their population expanded rapidly to around 8 million in the 20th century. Due to the implausibility of such an event, this rapid expansion was explained by Prof Harry Ostrer, Dr Gil Atzmon, and colleagues as a miracle. Under the Rhineland Hypothesis, European Jews would be very similar to each other and would have a predominant Middle Eastern ancestry.

The rival explanation, the Khazarian Hypothesis, states that the Jewish-convert Khazars -- a confederation of Turkic, Iranian, and Mongol tribes who lived in what is now Southern Russia, north of Georgia and east of Ukraine, and who converted to Judaism between the 7th and 9th centuries -- along with groups of Mesopotamian and Greco-Roman Jews, formed the basis of eastern Europe's Jewish population when they fled eastward, following the collapse of their empire in the 13th century. European Jews are thus expected to exhibit heterogeneity between different communities. While there is no doubt that the Judeo-Khazars fled into Eastern Europe and contributed to the establishment of Eastern European Jewry, argument has revolved around the magnitude of that contribution.

Dr Elhaik's paper, 'The missing link of Jewish European ancestry: contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses', examined a comprehensive dataset of 1,287 unrelated individuals of 8 Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations genotyped over 531,315 autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). This was data published by Doron Behar and colleagues in 2010, which Elhaik used to calculate seven measures of ancestry, relatedness, admixture, allele sharing distances, geographical origins, and migration patterns. These identified the Caucasus-Near Eastern and European ancestral signatures in the European Jews' genome along with a smaller, but substantial Middle Eastern genome.

The results were consistent in depicting a Caucasus ancestry for all European Jews. The analysis showed a tight genetic relationship between European Jews and Caucasus populations and pinpointed the biogeographic origin of the European Jews to the south of Khazaria, 560 kilometers from Samandar -Khazaria's capital city. Further analyses yielded a complex multi-ethnical ancestry with a slightly dominant Caucasus -Near Eastern, large South European and Middle Eastern ancestries, and a minor Eastern European contribution.

Dr Elhaik writes, "The most parsimonious explanation for our findings is that Eastern European Jews are of Judeo-Khazarian ancestry forged over many centuries in the Caucasus. Jewish presence in the Caucasus and later Khazaria was recorded as early as the late centuries BCE and reinforced due to the increase in trade along the Silk Road, the decline of Judah (1st-7th centuries), and the rise of Christianity and Islam. Greco-Roman and Mesopotamian Jews gravitating toward Khazaria were also common in the early centuries and their migrations were intensified following the Khazars' conversion to Judaism… The religious conversion of the Khazars encompassed most of the Empire's citizens and subordinate tribes and lasted for the next 400 years until the invasion of the Mongols. At the final collapse of their empire in the 13th century, many of the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe and later migrated to Central Europe and admixed with the neighbouring populations."

Dr Elhaik's findings consolidate, otherwise conflicting results describing high heterogeneity among Jewish communities and relatedness to Middle Eastern, Southern European, and Caucasus populations that are not explained under the Rhineland Hypothesis. Although Dr Elhaik's study linked European Jews to the Khazars, there are still questions to be answered. How substantial is the Iranian ancestry in modern day Jews? Since Eastern European Jews arrived from the Caucasus, where did Central and Western European Jews come from? If there was no mass migration out of Palestine at the 7th century, what happened to the ancient Judeans?

And crucially for Dr Elhaik, how would these new findings affect disease studies on Jews and Eurasian populations?

"Epidemiologists studying genetic disorders are constantly struggling with questions regarding ancestry, heterogeneity, and how to account for them," he says. "I hope this work will open up a new era in genetic studies where population stratification will be used more correctly."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 195333.htm

[gegiroor]

Good Lord @ all the copy & pastes. Why are you concerning yourself with their origins? Gegiroor you need to stop being obsessed with these end time ahadith. They are often inauthentic, contradictory & full of garbage.

Cherine, as Muslims, we should understand the times we're in, and it is not only me but it is a subject that is gaining traction within the Islamic scholars who has a responsibility to explain to the Muslim masses the times we're in.

P.S. I am not an Islamic scholar but the crisis in the Muslim world, particularly, in the Holy Land and in the larger Sham (Levant), clearly tell me the times we're in and the forces who are driving it.


Hadiths are very clear and not contradictory. The people who come up those conclusions either don't know or don't want to know about.

They are not full of garbage but really give details of the events unfolding in front of us. Audubillah, the authentic hadiths are being declared as "full of garbage"? Wat about the verses of teh Holy Quran? What are you gonna call them? Abti, fear Allah, and don't ever make these kinds of statements again. Just my brotherly advise!

When I looked at these hadiths and many others and I also the verses of the Quran that talked about Gog and Magod, I can clearly understand the time we're in:

Narrated Zainab bint Jahsh: The Prophet got up from his sleep with a flushed red face and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe to the Arabs, from the Great evil that is nearly approaching them. Today a gap has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this." (Sufyan illustrated by this forming the number 90 or 100 with his fingers.) It was asked, "Shall we be destroyed though there are righteous people among us?" The Prophet said, "Yes, if evil increased."

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jabir with the same chain of transmitters but with this addition that Gog and Magog would walk until they would reach the mountain of al−Khamar and it is a mountain of Bait−ul−Maqdis and they would say: We have killed those who are upon the earth. Let us now kill those who are In the sky and they would throw their arrows towards the sky and the arrows would return to them besmeared with blood. And in the narration of Ibn Hujr (the words are):” I have sent such persons (Gog and Magog) that none would dare fight against them. – Bk 41, Number 7016.

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: Today the wall (barrier) of Gog and Magog has been opened so much, and WUhaib (in order to explain it) made the figure of ninety with the help of his hand. -Bk 41, Number 6885.

Agent, I really could careless if you read it or not, but it is a topic that every Muslims should be pursuing to understand it. Khasasro of a time? I really see it as a good way of spending my time in topics like these. To me, it is da'wa initiative as I am trying to understand the times we're in, what the Holy Quran and authentic hadiths say about them, and what is the position of learned Islamic scholars.

[Cherine]

I clearly said inauthentic for example the hadith talking about how Prophet Isa[a.s] will come back & slay all the pigs. Pigs ku maxay u geesteyn?


Only ilaahay knows cilmul ghayb. I find it very uncomfortable how the ahadith talk about what's going to happen in great detail. Qur'ankaa akhriso, salaadda tuko, pay zakaat, Jews & their origins lanooma dirsan. It is not dacwa as you say, waa international political fadhi ku dirir.

[nord]

I clearly said inauthentic for example the hadith talking about how Prophet Isa[a.s] will come back & slay all the pigs. Pigs ku maxay u geesteyn?


Only ilaahay knows cilmul ghayb. I find it very uncomfortable how the ahadith talk about what's going to happen in great detail. Qur'ankaa akhriso, salaadda tuko, pay zakaat, Jews & their origins lanooma dirsan. It is not dacwa as you say, waa international political fadhi ku dirir.

Firstly, the hadith does not mention the slaying of pigs, rather the 'pig will be slain.' I do not know if this refers to a person as some suggest, or all pigs. Furthermore, are you qaulified in designating statues for hadith? As you say, only Allah knows the unseen, there could be harm to humans in pigs. I find it disturbing how you discredit the works of those who dedicated their entire lives for the sake of you and me!

[gegiroor]

I clearly said inauthentic for example the hadith talking about how Prophet Isa[a.s] will come back & slay all the pigs. Pigs ku maxay u geesteyn?


Only ilaahay knows cilmul ghayb. I find it very uncomfortable how the ahadith talk about what's going to happen in great detail. Qur'ankaa akhriso, salaadda tuko, pay zakaat, Jews & their origins lanooma dirsan. It is not dacwa as you say, waa international political fadhi ku dirir.

Thanks brother nord

Cherine,

As brother nord states, "are you qualified in designating statues for hadith?" First, you need to understand that the hadith that you're mocking is in Sahih Bukhari, in Sahih Muslim, and in Sunan Abu Dawud. In hadith collections, there are 6 collections accepted by Sunni Muslim scholars as shown below:

1. The Sahih of Bukhari. He was born in Bukhara: B. 194H D 256H
2. The Sahih of Muslim. He was born in Nishapur: B. 204H D 261H
3. The Sunan of Abu Dawud. He was born in Sajistan: B. 202H D 275H
4. The Sunan of Tirmidhi. He was born in Khurasan: B. 209H D 279H
5. The Sunan of An-Nisa’i. He was born in Khurasan: B. 214H D 303H
6. The Sunan of Ibn Majah: B. 209H D 273H

Each of the six "used somewhat different tests for rigorous authentication, and because Bukhari is the most strict, the authenticity of his collection is accepted second only to that of the Qur’an. Muslim is next. A Hadith included in both has a higher authority than that of Bukhari alone and is usually described as “agreed upon”. While the above six are considered “authenticated collections”, analysts have identified some less reliable Hadith reports in the last two of the six. "
(Source: http://www.daralislam.org/portals/0/Pub ... mpiled.pdf)

The question that I have for you is if the hadith that you mentioned is in sahih Bukhari, sahih Muslim, and Sunan of Abu Dawud, how can you declare it as inauthentic and throw a smile as if you're mocking it? Once more abti, fear Allah, and unless you spend huge effort in learning the deen and become a learned Islamic scholar, don't try to interpret the deen of your own. Either you devout your entire life in learning Islam or you follow learned Islamic scholars in Sunni Islam. Remember this is for your own sake. I also want to follow the same path.

With respect to your own statement, "Jews & their origins lanooma dirsan," I beg to differ you. First, we're Muslims. The pain of other Muslims is our pain as well - the same way our pain is their pain as well. The topic is not about Jews in general; it is about Gog and Magog and who these people are. This what the topic was about. It helps to understand the context, and it is better to first to grasp it before jumping to conclusions.

What we're trying to understand is who the Gog and Magog are and how they relate to Khazaria. To do so, we go to the verses of the Holy Quran, the hadiths, and also history of the conversion of the Khazars. The topic was educational, and we have Muslim scholars such as Imam Hosein explaining what we have in the Holy Quran, the hadiths, the characteristics of Khazar Jews, how do their actions conform to what has been prophesied before.

I will leave it there! Allaahu Musta’aan!