Maay is a language, not a dialect.

[Grant]

I have expected this, since Maay and Maxaa are not mutually intelligible, but have never seen it in writing before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Somalia

"The Digil and Mirifle (Rahanweyn) are agro-pastoral clans in the area between the Jubba and Shebelle rivers. Many do not follow a nomadic lifestyle, live further south and speak Maay. Although in the past frequently classified as a Somali dialect, more recent research by the linguist Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi suggests that Maay constitutes a separate but closely related Afro-Asiatic language of the Cushitic branch.[8]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Diriye_Abdullahi

"Major publications

Abdullahi, Mohamed Diriye, Culture and Customs of Somalia, (Greenwood Publishing Group: 2001). ISBN 0-313-31333-4 ISBN 9780313313332
Abdullahi, Mohamed Diriye, Parlons somali (French Edition), (L'Harmattan: 1996). ISBN 2-7384-4898-4 ISBN 978-2738448989
Abdullahi, Mohamed Diriye, Fiasco in Somalia: US-UN intervention, (Africa Institute of South Africa: 1995). ISBN 0-7983-0125-2 ISBN 978-0798301251

Manuscripts and projects

Is Somali a Tone Language? -- Paper demonstrating that Somali is not a tonal language.
The Evolution and Meaning of the Cardinal Directions in Somali -- Paper showing how the four words for the cardinal directions in the Somali language evolved into their present forms.
The Diachronic Development of the Progressive in Somali -- Paper discussing the formation of the progressive tense in the Somali language.

Dissertation

Le somali, dialectes, et histoire -- Examination, analysis and classification of linguistic varieties spoken in Somalia and collectively dubbed "Somali"."

[Basra-]

Grant aka Xplaya

Do u want me to post my article on the theory of male and female Futo???

[TheMightyNomad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect#Di ... r_Language

There is no universally accepted criterion for distinguishing a language from a dialect.

My hunch is that in general Somali politics favors unity, whereas European politics favors separation, thus speakers of Dutch and German would hate to think that they were speaking dialects of the same language. Conversely in general it is useful for the notion of Somali unity, that there is only one "Somali"

Note that (accoring to WP) the distinction is so unclear that some linguists consider "Dialect" and "Language" to be synonyms, and that a dialect can also be a language. Thus "Af Maay tiri is a language that is a dialect of Af Soomaali" would not be an illogical statement.

So the question becomes (Are Somali intellectuals that desperate to commit ethnic,economic and cultural suicide? What is wrong with calling Af- Maay tiri a dialect?

Where is the consideration in this?

[Basra-]

U know what is hilarious??? Is the fact that grant and his likes--depend on 'hunches' and speculations to decipher Somali languages and dialects. Or even Somali history. We were not a people of literate. We never kept written records and historical book. We never went through enlightenment as a society, where then does these 'facts' pulled from???

[Grant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect#Di ... r_Language

There is no universally accepted criterion for distinguishing a language from a dialect.

My hunch is that in general Somali politics favors unity, whereas European politics favors separation, thus speakers of Dutch and German would hate to think that they were speaking dialects of the same language. Conversely in general it is useful for the notion of Somali unity, that there is only one "Somali"

Note that (accoring to WP) the distinction is so unclear that some linguists consider "Dialect" and "Language" to be synonyms, and that a dialect can also be a language. Thus "Af Maay tiri is a language that is a dialect of Af Soomaali" would not be an illogical statement.

So the question becomes (Are Somali intellectuals that desperate to commit ethnic,economic and cultural suicide? What is wrong with calling Af- Maay tiri a dialect?

Where is the consideration in this?

MN,

To continue your quote, "The most common, and most purely linguistic, criterion is that of mutual intelligibility: two varieties are said to be dialects of the same language if being a speaker of one variety confers sufficient knowledge to understand and be understood by a speaker of the other; otherwise, they are said to be different languages." Maay and Maxa are not mutually intelligible.

Your Grace,

The source of this particular group of "facts" is one Dr Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi , a professor of linguistics at the University of Montreal. You will find a Wiki link above.

[gurey25]

Somalis always deny it, they cannot accept that there are different somali languages,
we need to accept our diversity.

but to be honest the difference between langauge and dialect is political.

Dutch is clearly a dialect of german, there are other german dialects that are further away from german but because they are inside germany they are called a dialect.
The same with portuguese and spanish, they are so close they can be dialects.

The most ridiculous cases is China, cantonese is similar to mandarin but is further away from it than italian is to spanish.
and teocheow, hainanese, hokkien are even further, all are not mutually intelligible .

politics plays a big part

[Lancer]

Of course it was vehemently denied because it wouldn't fit the "Somali waa Hal" Same language culture blabalaba narative.

Just wish it was spoken only in Somaliland...could've been a powerful tool

[Itrah]

As a German speaker I can understand Dutch A LOT better than I can understand Af-Maay with my Af-Somali knowledge.

Definitely different languages.

[gurey25]

As a German speaker I can understand Dutch A LOT better than I can understand Af-Maay with my Af-Somali knowledge.

Definitely different languages.

can you understand Swiss german,when they speak between themselves, not when they are talking to you?

[Itrah]

can you understand Swiss german,when they speak between themselves, not when they are talking to you?

Yes, just need to pay extra attention. The younger generation in Switzerland speaks more Standard German than the heavily dialected Swiss stuff.
It's not like the difference between Maay and Maxa, that one is much bigger.

[gurey25]

i think its the same with Morrocan Arabic it is the most divergent of the dialects,
when i speak to one, both of us use more standard arabic mixed in whit whatever dialect we know as a bridge so we understand each other.
when i eavesdrop on a conversation between morrocans i can barley make out what they are saying.

[Rabshoole]

-
The truth of somalinimo always hangs in the balance when people try to unify people that share minimal commonality.

[BVSNet]

What MightyNomad said.


You can choose how closely or loosely you tie the two together. To be fair most of the time it's laziness on the part of the maxaa tiri. I've on many an occasion said "I don't understand" before I've even tried to listen. It is intelligible for those who speak standard Somali and even if your vocabulary is wack you can still pick up the meaning if you're paying attention. However, if all you speak and understand is your dialect then chances are not only do you struggle with other maxaa tiri dialects but maay becomes impossible.

[James Dahl]

"A language is a dialect with an army and a navy" - Max Weinreich

If you take the measuring stick of the difference between say, Swedish and Danish, or between Serbian and Croatian, as "language", then various dialects are full languages. Maay, Maxaa, Benaadir, Jiddu, Ashraaf, Tunni, Dabarre and Garre

[sanguinne]

my mom who grew up in xamar can understand both and she is darood so i dont really believe it can be considered its own language