The wali problem

[InaSamaale]

Salaams folks,



I've noticed when it comes to the marriage process, us Somalis, compared to other Muslims approach it very differently. For most families, even the more religious ones, have little to no wali involvement with regards to their daughter's spouse selection.

Most of the time, the girl is allowed to "get to know" / shukaansi the guy alone and when the Sheeko is finished both parties approach their parents for the rubber stamp approval.

My question is, to married women, how involved was your wali? To the single girls, how involved is your wali in your search/ how involved would you like him to be?

To single guys, would you be comfortable approaching a girls father from the beginning to help establish compatibility?


To the married brothers/fathers how would you like to be involved in the process or would you trust your daughters judgement ?

Please vote & elaborate with a comment.

[ihatewritingessays]

Me and my dad were actually talking about this a while back. He is very traditional & if he could have his way he would set me and my sisters up (not my brother though cuz he can find his own, as if we can't ). I told him that does'nt fly with us and that once we found somone worth marrying, then & only then, can he get involved. It was a really hard pill for him to swallow I think because even my deen oriented sister co-signed.
Its just extremely awkward and weird to me if I'm honest.

[GAMES]

Arranged marriage

[BVSNet]

If it was common place for men to go to a female's house and "declare their interest" and court under the watchful eye of walis then yeah it wouldn't be creepy.

But this is not an English novel and it's not our culture so it is creepy at best and ceeb at worst. Other than in the case where families introduce their children to each other I don't see how fathers would get involved early in the process, particularly if the two met on their own.

"I would like gabartada in aan is barano" sounds to me like af xumo. In the Somali context waalid talk to each other so the guy on his own declaring interest would probably be viewed as disrespectful.

[Lamagoodle]

Depends;
In the old traditional somali way, marriages involved the whole family; the womenfolk scouted/spied on the character of the potential bride in the public domain. When that is done and there is greenlight, the men did also scouting; the family history is under the limelight. The same is done for the bride; the groom's family is scrutinized. The groom and the bride rarely met before the wedding.

But what we live in a globalised world that defies old traditions. The notion of Wei(sig?) - debatable what it means- which I define as "parental greenlight" is a hybrid urban culture in which the rules that govern marriages is dictated by pragmatism. The "wali" is involved to cement a process that has been going on for months/years. Shukaansi, courting is a natural part of the marriage process and even the most staunch religious women/men do engage in it. In short, the weli is an alibi to satisfy societal norms.

Should I get in touch with a "Weli"? yes, I should. Most people do that because marriages cannot be kept a secret. And as long as the woman/man is a somali, pragmatism dictates that the weli will not oppose it. There is as always an exception to the rule; the qodobsiro/qudbisiro; a hidden marriage because the risks of making it public is greater than the benefits of exposing it. NO WELI IN QUDBISIRO.

[InaSamaale]

Interesting responses so far.


@Lam, I think some form of wali involvement is a given, that is religiously speaking. I'm just asking, since culture isn't stagnant, should we be encouraging wali involvement at the begining of the courting process as opposed to to just at the end?

[InaSamaale]

If it was common place for men to go to a female's house and "declare their interest" and court under the watchful eye of walis then yeah it wouldn't be creepy.

But this is not an English novel and it's not our culture so it is creepy at best and ceeb at worst. Other than in the case where families introduce their children to each other I don't see how fathers would get involved early in the process, particularly if the two met on their own.

"I would like gabartada in aan is barano" sounds to me like af xumo. In the Somali context waalid talk to each other so the guy on his own declaring interest would probably be viewed as disrespectful.

I get what you are saying. But let's be honest, since two people are allowed to talk.... why would a guy, that wants to get your father on board from the begining, allow him to ask him questions, allow him to facilitate the getting to know you process , why should that be interpreted as disrespect when it's everything opposite to it ?

Despite it not being culturally appropriate, as a female, do you think there are benefits to getting aabos perspective on a potential and overlooking the entire process?

[Lamagoodle]

Interesting responses so far.


@Lam, I think some form of wali involvement is a given, that is religiously speaking. I'm just asking, since culture isn't stagnant, should we be encouraging wali involvement at the begining of the courting process as opposed to to just at the end?

True culture is dynamic. But from a somali perspective, culture and religion are intertwined.

My opinion is this; you cannot involve your "wali" in the courting process. That is out of the question; waaba ceeb. How can you involve your wali? There is a middle way though which is very common among the somali urbanites; you bring the guy home/ or make sure that your family are aware of what is happening; usually the female members and the kids are aware of what is happening. You see not all courting leads to marriage. This is a selection process. You involve your wali when there is a final decision. It is easy when there is a garoob involved.

[CigaalSHiiDaaDCFC]

No, I wouldn't want her wali to be involved until the final stage of our relationship. Have you involved ur Aabo from the beginning when u were dating with ur husband?

[BVSNet]

I get what you are saying. But let's be honest, since two people are allowed to talk.... why would a guy, that wants to get your father on board from the begining, allow him to ask him questions, allow him to facilitate the getting to know you process , why should that be interpreted as disrespect when it's everything opposite to it ?

Despite it not being culturally appropriate, as a female, do you think there are benefits to getting aabos perspective on a potential and overlooking the entire process?

My dad is not going to facilitate a guy getting to know me I'm laughing because I'm trying to picture it and can just imagine his reaction

There are benefits to having a level of family involvement and I think that's where investigating backgrounds comes into play.

The only way I can comfortably envisage my dad getting involved is if the guy's walid approach my dad and he can either yay or nay the introduction maahine he is not going to sit with a random guy and have a conversation about me with him. I can't picture it.

Are you saying that before you are even sure if the guy would make it to the yes/no/maybe pile you think he should meet with the girl's father? How would it work, would the girl introduce them or would be he be approach the dad before he even approached the girl?

[InaSamaale]

I get what you are saying. But let's be honest, since two people are allowed to talk.... why would a guy, that wants to get your father on board from the begining, allow him to ask him questions, allow him to facilitate the getting to know you process , why should that be interpreted as disrespect when it's everything opposite to it ?

Despite it not being culturally appropriate, as a female, do you think there are benefits to getting aabos perspective on a potential and overlooking the entire process?

My dad is not going to facilitate a guy getting to know me I'm laughing because I'm trying to picture it and can just imagine his reaction

There are benefits to having a level of family involvement and I think that's where investigating backgrounds comes into play.

The only way I can comfortably envisage my dad getting involved is if the guy's walid approach my dad and he can either yay or nay the introduction maahine he is not going to sit with a random guy and have a conversation about me with him. I can't picture it.

Are you saying that before you are even sure if the guy would make it to the yes/no/maybe pile you think he should meet with the girl's father? How would it work, would the girl introduce them or would be he be approach the dad before he even approached the girl?

BV, off course it might be weird a bit, the first time.


The way my friends family do it, it a guy is interested in her or her sisters, they would pass the fathers number to him. He would then, chat to the father, when he is pleased with the information he receives and does a background check, the father "allows" them to speak on the phone a couple of times.

If they're okay, he will come over to the house a couple of times where they can ask each other questions. This is how she and three of her sisters got married. This is just one example of how it could work.


Would you be put off by something like this?

[InaSamaale]

No, I wouldn't want her wali to be involved until the final stage of our relationship. Have you involved ur Aabo from the beginning when u were dating with ur husband?

Okay, hypothetically speaking you have a daughter, would you leave everything to her or you would want to guide her in the process ?


Tbh, the way I did it, was with some family involved but not my father. Not because I didn't want to though, but because that option wasn't available.

[CigaalSHiiDaaDCFC]

No, I wouldn't want her wali to be involved until the final stage of our relationship. Have you involved ur Aabo from the beginning when u were dating with ur husband?

Okay, hypothetically speaking you have a daughter, would you leave everything to her or you would want to guide her in the process ?


Tbh, the way I did it, was with some family involved but not my father. Not because I didn't want to though, but because I couldn't.

I wouldn't want her to bring every guy she talks to somalis say gabdhuhu kun bay la sheekaystaan midna way ka guursadaan But I want her mother to be involved from the beginning. The mother should be aware everything nd keep her daughter in check also she should give the father heads up on whats going on. But if my daughter becomes sheekhad and refuses to talk to anyone without me being involved i will happily do it. It's just not something I would make her do.

[Cherine]

I get what you are saying. But let's be honest, since two people are allowed to talk.... why would a guy, that wants to get your father on board from the begining, allow him to ask him questions, allow him to facilitate the getting to know you process , why should that be interpreted as disrespect when it's everything opposite to it ?

Despite it not being culturally appropriate, as a female, do you think there are benefits to getting aabos perspective on a potential and overlooking the entire process?

My dad is not going to facilitate a guy getting to know me I'm laughing because I'm trying to picture it and can just imagine his reaction

There are benefits to having a level of family involvement and I think that's where investigating backgrounds comes into play.

The only way I can comfortably envisage my dad getting involved is if the guy's walid approach my dad and he can either yay or nay the introduction maahine he is not going to sit with a random guy and have a conversation about me with him. I can't picture it.

Are you saying that before you are even sure if the guy would make it to the yes/no/maybe pile you think he should meet with the girl's father? How would it work, would the girl introduce them or would be he be approach the dad before he even approached the girl?

BV, off course it might be weird a bit, the first time.


The way my friends family do it, it a guy is interested in her or her sisters, they would pass the fathers number to him. He would then, chat to the father, when he is pleased with the information he receives and does a background check, the father "allows" them to speak on the phone a couple of times.

If they're okay, he will come over to the house a couple of times where they can ask each other questions. This is how she and three of her sisters got married. This is just one example of how it could work.


Would you be put off by something like this?

Hell yeah!, not going to give my dads number to a complete stranger. Aabahay baan nin oon wuxuu yahay ba aan garanayn hor fadhiisiyaa? Gurigeena kaalay oo ila fadhiiso dhahaa?! Girl what you are proposing is bonkers.

[MujahidAishah]

That's not our dhaqan sorry it doesn't fly to get a guy to knock on our door and tell my brothers I want to speak to your sister that niiga waa lagu tuukan. ..

But my mum is always involved from the go always the same Qs:
Tribe:
Where does he live:
Occupation:
How religious is he:


If my mum don't like him waa ka Wareeg