Al Hallaj,Iblis and the Somali

[weydamal]

In a clip posted here , a Somali talked about a conversation between Iblis and Fircoon, where Iblis said that Fircoon committed the greater sin of claiming to be God while he only defied God's commandment.

This story goes back to Husein Mansur Al Hallaj, the Persian Sufi mystic who was exexuted for heresy. In his book Tawasin, he argued that Iblis was a was the perfect servant of God, because he refused to bow down to Adam, despite being commanded by God, because he could not bow down to any other than God. Hallaj considered Iblis as the ultimate monotheist, who would not compromise his belief in the Oneness of God by bowing to a mere mortal, even if commanded by God himself. In defying God, he paid the ultimate price of being ejected from God's presence , and for this sacrifice Hallaj considers him a model for Muslims of the faithfull, unwavering servant of God, who would rather pay the price of defiance than bow down to any other than God.

This was of course a rather unconventional interpretation of the story of Iblis, and for this and other ideas, he was ultimately executed for heresy.

To see a form of this idea being mouthed by a Somali in this day and age is rather surprising, and it would be interesting to know whether he is just a well read man or has heard this story in Somali Sufi circles.

[DaacasBiyo]

What a story, it's just too bad the muzzies don't know how to make movies like the jews. Heads up, none of their lies about Fircoon happened.
Kemet was the GREATEST civilization the Africans have ever created and no jews or homo christians or pedo muzzies will ever erase that.

So this Somali muzzie who believes in this fake plagiarized muzzie satan you call well read ain't nothing but a mentally enslaved sabool.

[weydamal]

[Adali]

What a story, it's just too bad the muzzies don't know how to make movies like the jews. Heads up, none of their lies about Fircoon happened.
Kemet was the GREATEST civilization the Africans have ever created and no jews or homo christians or pedo muzzies will ever erase that.

So this Somali muzzie who believes in this fake plagiarized muzzie satan you call well read ain't nothing but a mentally enslaved sabool.

You have completely lost the plot. I was with you when you were anti white-supremacy but now you are clearly anti somali as 90% of your post suggest. piss off !

as for the OP, how can Iblis be a model for muslims when he swore to lead mankind astray.

audibilah you guys are insane.

[weydamal]

I am talking about this Somali guy from 0:56 and his story about Iblis and Fircoon. This is not, for me , a debate about Kemet , Abrahamic religions, whether you believe in Satan, angels etc, and the rest of your rant. It's more of a cultural thing or rather how historical motifs persist over the ages and resurface as new narratives. The story the Somali guy tells in this clip parallels that of Hallaj the mystic Sufi heretic who was executed by the Islamic orthodoxy in Baghdad over a thousand years ago. I have briefly narrated his story above.

My curiosity is whether the Somali guy heard this story from traditional sources or read it from the historical literature. If the story is derived from historical sources, this would be more interesting as it means that the thought of Hallaj has survived in Somali history. This is not entirely implausible, If you remember Ibn Battuta's description of Somalis in Seylac being rafida or extreme Shia.

The possibility of this historical memory of Hallaj among the Somalis is what I was alluding to.

[weydamal]

Adali,

As I mentioned, this is not my thinking, but the thought of Hallaj, who was executed as a heretic by the Muslim orthodoxy of the time. Clearly no Muslim would consider Iblis as a model, since he is the adversary as you point out.My interest in this was piqued because a Somali of our day and age narrated an almost parallel story to that of Hallaj. I was wondering how he heard the story.

Narrating a historical incident doesn't mean you subscribe to the beliefs espoused by the protagonist.

[Basra-]

weydamal


I posted that comment in the other thread, did you start your thread based on my question in the other thread???? LOL


Anyway to the topic of your thread. I don't know about Hallaj or whatever, but I do know that the somali in the clip told the story of the Pharaoh and Ibliss was interesting. However, I don't believe in it until someone tells me Allaah swt said it in the Quran. If it is not in the Quran. I don't believe it.

Besides, u cannot excuse Iblis for being disobedient to Allaah swt. Iblis is arrogant. May Allaah swt prevent us mortals from being arrogant on top of being natural born sinners. To be disobedient, is one thing, to be jealous, and promise Allaah swt u would be the enemy of his best creation Nabi Adam ASW is just a bit much!

[Basra-]

weydamal

by the way, did u used to go under the name abdalla1?????

[WiredForGood]

There are degrees of disobedience and all can be forgiven by God provided the individual accepts their mistake and repents. Iblis was offered the chance before condemnation to eternal damnation. When he rejected the order to bow down, Allah asked him why. When his answer revealed his arrogance and pride and how he despised Adam, Allah still gave him a chance to change his mind and repent, he persisted. What he did carries a greater degree of disobedience to someone born in a society that is not monotheistic, and who out of ignorance worshiped/worships what his community is/was worshiping. Iblis directly communicated with God and knew the risks of disobeying his creator. Iblis was privy to knowledge hidden from others including us human beings who don't see the unseen but believe in it out of obedience to our creator. Naturally, Iblis dishonored himself in front of his creator while the rest of creatures present at the scene of Adam's initiation into his role chose to obey their Lord. Big difference.

The angels had questions about Adam and were satisfied by Allah's reply to them whereas Iblis persisted in being disobedient and never repented. Strangely, and due to his arrogance, he asked for a chance TO FUCK WITH HUMANS. Instead of saying "Sorry" and acknowledge his creator's supremacy, He wanted a long life to mess with mankind themselves whom he viewed as the cause of his disgraceful choice. That goes to show how despicable Iblis became and how far he fell from Grace. There is no Honor in Iblis and his works.

[Basra-]

Wire

I love your style of reasoning. Its very robotic, and sort of lifeless.

[WiredForGood]

Wire

I love your style of reasoning. Its very robotic, and sort of lifeless.

Robots don't have thoughts. They have logic sequences programmed into them. You tell them what to do given some circumstances and that is it. Here is a copy of an example of a code to teach a robot to move from 0 to 180 degree when Basra's big Fat ass blocks the way.

#include <Servo.h>

Servo myservo;
int pos = 0; // this is basra big futo position marker at zero

void setup()
{
myservo.attach(9);
}

void loop()
{
for(pos = 0; pos < 180; pos += 1) // variable ‘pos’ goes from 0 degrees to 180 degrees in steps of 1 degree when Basra's big futo blocks the way
{
myservo.write(pos); // tell servo to go to position in variable ‘pos’
delay(15);
}
for(pos = 180; pos>=1; pos-=1)
{
myservo.write(pos);
delay(15); // waits 15ms at each degree to see if Basra moved her ass.
}
}

[Basra-]

There are degrees of disobedience and all can be forgiven by God provided the individual accepts their mistake and repents. Iblis was offered the chance before condemnation to eternal damnation. When he rejected the order to bow down, Allah asked him why. When his answer revealed his arrogance and pride and how he despised Adam, Allah still gave him a chance to change his mind and repent, he persisted. What he did carries a greater degree of disobedience to someone born in a society that is not monotheistic, and who out of ignorance worshiped/worships what his community is/was worshiping. Iblis directly communicated with God and knew the risks of disobeying his creator. Iblis was privy to knowledge hidden from others including us human beings who don't see the unseen but believe in it out of obedience to our creator. Naturally, Iblis dishonored himself in front of his creator while the rest of creatures present at the scene of Adam's initiation into his role chose to obey their Lord. Big difference.

The angels had questions about Adam and were satisfied by Allah's reply to them whereas Iblis persisted in being disobedient and never repented. Strangely, and due to his arrogance, he asked for a chance TO FUCK WITH HUMANS. Instead of saying "Sorry" and acknowledge his creator's supremacy, He wanted a long life to mess with mankind themselves whom he viewed as the cause of his disgraceful choice. That goes to show how despicable Iblis became and how far he fell from Grace. There is no Honor in Iblis and his works.

Wire@Lool

Why r u being sensitive huuno? When I say, robotic, and lifeless, I mean u r too uptight. U r too rigid. Relax, have a sense of humor.


By the way, will u say your curiousity on the above highlighted quote of yours be a major focus of your thoughts? Do u think of the unknown, and unforeseen life around ?

[WiredForGood]

There are degrees of disobedience and all can be forgiven by God provided the individual accepts their mistake and repents. Iblis was offered the chance before condemnation to eternal damnation. When he rejected the order to bow down, Allah asked him why. When his answer revealed his arrogance and pride and how he despised Adam, Allah still gave him a chance to change his mind and repent, he persisted. What he did carries a greater degree of disobedience to someone born in a society that is not monotheistic, and who out of ignorance worshiped/worships what his community is/was worshiping. Iblis directly communicated with God and knew the risks of disobeying his creator. Iblis was privy to knowledge hidden from others including us human beings who don't see the unseen but believe in it out of obedience to our creator. Naturally, Iblis dishonored himself in front of his creator while the rest of creatures present at the scene of Adam's initiation into his role chose to obey their Lord. Big difference.

The angels had questions about Adam and were satisfied by Allah's reply to them whereas Iblis persisted in being disobedient and never repented. Strangely, and due to his arrogance, he asked for a chance TO FUCK WITH HUMANS. Instead of saying "Sorry" and acknowledge his creator's supremacy, He wanted a long life to mess with mankind themselves whom he viewed as the cause of his disgraceful choice. That goes to show how despicable Iblis became and how far he fell from Grace. There is no Honor in Iblis and his works.

Wire@Lool

Why r u being sensitive huuno? When I say, robotic, and lifeless, I mean u r too uptight. U r too rigid. Relax, have a sense of humor.


By the way, will u say your curiousity on the above highlighted quote of yours be a major focus of your thoughts? Do u think of the unknown, and unforeseen life around ?

So, you like to chat with me? I am that smart and you want to be seen as in league with me? Is that why you jump in front of me whenEver I am around and write something?


PS: Unless you make your thoughts clear, I won't be able to read your mind. I did n't understand your question. And if you fail to make sense again, I am out.

[Basra-]

Wire

of course u r smart huuno. Of course your opinion matter. Don't let anyone tell u otherwise!

[WiredForGood]

Wire

of course u r smart huuno. Of course your opinion matter. Don't let anyone tell u otherwise!

loool, let me guess, this was supposed to make me nicer to you? Okay, you win. I don't mind adulation bestowed on me by Old ladies. They are the best. Especially the starved ones.


To answer your previous question which i understood but willfully pretended I didn't,-- NO, I never think about the unseen but accept them as hidden for now. It would miss the point if humans were given access to the unseen. Then there would be no need to meet the challenge of Faith right? What we have now is a combination of truth in messaging plus a promise for a later truth-revealing day. Those who stuck with faith using whatever evidence given to them through messengers will be happy with their efforts starting with their kiss of natural death. Those who exercise their freewill also who denied such truths can exist and lived their liVe as they saw fit will also see their lack of efforts rewarded as fitting.

I am practical believer, so i don't worry or busy myself with what i have already accepted as unseen for now. Does that answer your questions?