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is sufism correct??

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muslim-man
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Postby muslim-man » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:08 am

[quote="Beenlow"]Waiting for Law 26 to answer...[/quote]

You will never get proper answers from this dude, he will take you to circles and circles and circles untill you get to where you started and begin all over again. haisdaalinin saxb.



arabman.
This guys maskaxdiisa waxaaqasay cnn, rupert rubish and another idiot that goes with the name bashir goth (a well known somali anti-hijabist). he is arrogant. aduunyada ilahey waxaa ugudaran midka jahilka ah oo jahilnimadiisa aan qirsaneen /ogeen.

I asked another forrumer named nurdeen the following set of questions after he said, the muslim leaders of today are influenced by wahabists on thread about the muslim leaders.

who are the wahabists?? do you know of any somali wahbists? who is their leader? do they have their own mosques? etc

unsuprisingly he gave me a link by bashir goth, a man who is preaching xijaab is a foreign import and hableheen somaliyeetshould abandone the call of Allah s.w to the prophet "yaa ayuhanabiyu qulii azwaajika wa banaatika wanisaail mu'minuun, yudniina caleyhina min jalabibihina.

this is what i said to him,


nurdeen,

there is no group called “Wahabi”. But there was a good, pious and big Alim (Scholar), His name was Mohammad ibn Abdul WahabHe was born in the Arabian Peninsula during a period when the common Muslims of Arab and non-Arabs were in the darkness of ignorance, and they had deviated from the way of the Quran and Hadith. The Shirk (Polytheism) was spread among Muslims, who were practising worship of some pious people through Du'a, circumambulation around their graves,calling them for assistance, making sacrifice for them etc. In this situation, Allah blessed the Ummah and brought to them this reformer. He struggled very hard preaching the true teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). People opposed his call and hurt him very much. The ruler of his area tried to kill him. When he did not find any shelter in his land, he migrated to another place and preached the true Islam. Allah helped him and blessed his efforts, gradually his students increased and they took his message to many regions. So his name became very known among Muslims. The innovators and devious people got angry and accused him of many bad things he did not say and did not do. Since then, every person who called to true Islam and to adherence to Qur'an and Sunnah, the devious people accused him of being Wahabi. You should not be deceived by these rumors. Always try to follow the Quran and Sunnah. May Allah bless us and Allah knows best.

dont be decieved bro.

he never returned to comment nor did the law26 Exclamation

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Postby The Arabman » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:06 am

"he will take you to circles and circles and circles untill you get to where you started and begin all over again. haisdaalinin saxb."

muslim-man, that's why I don't waste my time on such individuals. What they foremost lack is keeping the unity of the topic; when they appear to hit a wall, they off-shoot the topic.

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Postby The Law26 » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:44 am

MM and his side kick.

Everyone knows who the Wahabis are except the Wahabis themselves.

This is what our Prophet pbuh taught as a life lived that will get you into heaven as a Muslim. Tell me if you object to it, and would you like to label (like the Wahabis aka neo-salafists) other Muslims, kufr, heretic or Bida?

A Bedouin came to the Prophet and said, "Tell me of a deed such that if I were to do it, I would enter Paradise (as a result)." The Prophet said, "Worship God (Allah) without worshiping anything along with Him, offer the (five daily) prescribed prayers, pay the compulsory alms (zakat), and fast the month of Ramadan." The Bedouin said, "(I swear) by Him in whose hands my life is, I will not do more than this." When he (the Bedouin) left, the Prophet said, "Whoever would like to see a man of Paradise should look at this man."
Narrated by Abu Hurayrah in the Sahih of Bukhari, Volume 2, p. 272-73, book 23, #480.

I think that it's an often-ignored Hadith by your ilk, and in particular people like you who also share an unhealthy tribalist attitudes with their Somali tribal brethrens and hold prejudices against their own Somalis, who discount it only for their own hypocritical self-interests. Doesn’t that sound hypocorism? But to be honest, doing just those things is very difficult for many Somali Muslims and Allah SWT knows that, so why do people try and make Islam more difficult than need be? Just like the Saud family, to preside a placid nation. You will find the answers in the divisiveness of Muslims and especially the emergence of the Wahabis. What is the need for all these divisions in Islam?

Off-course, we all know that there are many competing groups of Muslims today in the ideological wars. There are the Saudi-funded Wahabis aka neo-salafis, the many different groups of Sufis, the Iranian funded Shia ones, the Egyptian/Syrian Brotherhood groups, the Tablighi Jamaati people, the mysterious Hizb at Tahreer, the Jamaci Islami groups, the Ahlu Sunna wal jaamaci groups, the African American Muslim groups, the secularist Indo-Pak groups and many, many others. Each group has its own scholars who "prove" to their faithful that the other groups are inferior. Since the advent of wahabis, their "scholars" often issue "Fatwas" or religious edicts concerning the slaughter other Muslims in the mosques and markets like in Iraq and Pakistan in the name of happy dreamland sectarian exclusive truth. Isn’t that Haraam?

These Wahabis have been distorting Islam over many decades because of their many un-Islamic cultural and patriarchal innovations, which have been accepted as valid. These so called Wahabi" authorities" like Bin-Baz and co., have no sanction in Islam, and ignorant Muslims like you have developed dependencies on them. Separating out the distortions is often looked down upon, despite the necessity. Because the history of Islam among Somalis included a legacy of illiteracy among most of us, a tradition of scholars rose up to interpret the Quraan and Sunnah to the masses. Now, the Wahabis fill that role. This tradition has usurped the individual responsibility of each of us to learn, study and grow in Islam.

So this leads us to ask ourselves what is Sufism? Beenlow has given an accurate synopsis about Sufis, and let me add few others in accordance to their own views.

They view it to be ONE of the main branches of Islamic Knowledge. The first and foremost is `Ilm ul-Kalam/Tawhid (Islamic Theology). This knowledge deals with the Scriptural and rational proofs of the Muslim doctrine. According to them, this knowledge takes precedence over everything else because its subject matter, that is, knowing what does and does not befit Allah SWT is the most important after the Islamic theology, it is the science of Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) that is the knowledge of knowing what is and is not permissible according to Islamic Law. Now a person may have lots of knowledge in the area of Theology and Jurisprudence, but his heart is corrupt and filled with insincerity, hatred, arrogance, and other moral/character defects. It is here that the science of Sufism comes into play. Its objective is to render the heart pure and sincerely obedient to the Islamic Law. Now there are two groups of extremes you are likely to encounter when talking about the Sufism. One, are those who claim that Sufism is not a part of Islam. This is the doctrine promoted by the Saudi/Wahabi regime and their followers like you. The other extreme are those pseudo-Sufis, who claim that Sufism is a separate religion altogether and only incorporates some aspects of Islam.

Just like the Wahabis, and the reasons of divisions that I stated above, they strongly believe that it is critical that a person learn from qualified teachers. And it is critical that a person understand the correct Islamic Doctrine before embarking on the path of Tasawwuf (Sufism). Also, they mention that it is impossible that a person would become a pious Muslim if he does not abide by the Islamic Law. Among the most well known Sufis is Al-Ghazali. He was a Scholar in Islamic Theology and reached a high level in Jurisprudence. He demonstrated that authentic Sufism is the fruit of what the Muslim should pursue. Al-Ghazali's book, "Faith and Practice" can give you a general sense of what Tasawwuf is (it also has a section on Islamic Theology and a refutation of Greek philosophy).

The fact is Sufis were very prominent and still are very popular in most Muslim countries. Yes, they had their tension with other groups of Muslims who think differently. But of course we have Wahabism gaining ground and accusing everyone of Bida’ and Shirk including the Sufi Muslims. But still Sufis are popular, and in light of this, it is a much more complex issue, deserving more than a simplistic answer.

Not so long ago, I was surrounded by the Wahabi aka salafi Bida' Brothers (they see bida' everywhere). Considering that Hadith above, it seems to me that they are often very narrow in how they interpret Sunnah. Isn’t it wrong interpreting some our Prophet's pbuh actions in this manner? This takes the focus away from what we as Muslims are supposed to be doing. What about how our prophet pbuh served Allah SWT? How he treated his wives? How he treated the believers and people in general? This is where the Wahabi’s go astray, and I'm more concerned with our prophet’s spiritual practice and the way he served Allah SWT and how he maintained balance and justice by following what was revealed to him in the Quraan. As followers of an individual called Abdiwahaab, let me remind you that this is what Allah SWT told our prophet pbuh.

"Say (O Muhammad), 'I do not bring anything new that is different from any other messenger. I have no idea what may happen to me, or to you. I simply follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a manifest warner.'"

Qur'an 46:9

"Say (O Muhammad), 'I possess no power to benefit or harm even myself, except in accordance with God's will. Had I known the future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, as well as bearer of good news for those who believe.'"

Qur'an 7:188

"Say (O Muhammad), 'I am no more than a human being like you. It has been revealed to me that your God is ONE GOD. Therefore, you shall observe Him ALONE, and ask His forgiveness, AND WOE TO THE IDOLWORSHIPERS."
Qur'an 41:6

My practice of Islam is not filtered through layers of unsanctioned Wahabi authorities or others, nor given to me with permission from those who enjoin themselves with Allah SWT. They have no power over me, only my Lord Allah SWT Does. More Muslims should be this way, for Islam was never meant to be controlled by an elite who determines, in Allah SWT's name, what is Islam and who is or not a Muslim, who is bida’, heretic or kufr. That is the sole judgment of Allah SWT.

Beenlow.

We have to keep in mind that our deen is a holistic one and not one based on a single Ayat or a Hadith. While oppression may be worse than death we are not governed by vigilantism. The same way we can condemn acts of terrorism as being not only morally repugnant but Islamically impermissible is the same way we can condemn assassinating rulers even if they are tyrants. It's still murder. No matter what we must use should be HALAL means to enact positive change. When it comes to geo-politics this most certainly cannot be done by a rogue Muslim or group of Muslims that Arabman and his company here are a mouth-piece for, and who only read an Ayat or two from the Quraan and miss-intrepret it and say, "Give me my gun!"

Do the benefits outweigh?

MM

Since you are well aware of debates that took place here over 3 years ago and your nick is kind newish, isn't that a trait of deceit like the Wahabis, or will you like to act like a decent man and reveal your identity?

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Postby Ureysoo » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:06 pm

*Muslim Man*...

I consider *Sufism* as an innovation *bida’*

My Reasons: our beloved prophet (Mohamed) *peace be upon him*, declared that Arrow *This Ummah will divide into 73 sects all of which except 1 will go 2 Hell and they (the Saved Sect) are those who are upon what I and My Companions are upon (those who follow My Way and the Way of my Companions)*. This Hadith acknowledge us that *Sunni* is the precise sect, and all the other sects are heretical doctrine, that ppl came up with after the death of our prophet (PBUH).

Sufism is known as *Islamic Mysticism*, in which ppl seek 2 find divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God, it also emphasizes prayers and transcendent rituals such as ecstatic dance *whirling dervishes*. Like the Christian *Gnostics*, Sufis believe that Allah reveals himself 2 individuals on a personal level. Perceptibly, this notion doesn't sit well with the authoritarian hierarchies of mainstream Islam, and it shows us that Sufism is in essence a conglomerate consisting of extracts from a multitude of other religions with which Sufi's interacted. The other day I was watching a T.V documentary, where a lot of ppl who pursues the Sufism heresy gathered practicing an extraordinary teachings, in which men and women were sitting on the floor in a cross legged way, singing and moving their hands uttering an abnormal comments. *Are we tolerated 2 sing, and dance while we are worshipping* Question . Apparently, Sufism is closer 2 the mystic doctrines of Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism and other religions, than 2 Islam. In fact, Sufism is never characterized under *Islam* in any system of category, but rather under *Mysticism*.

Beside, *Allah* clearly asserted in the *Quran* that Arrow *All who contradict and oppose the Messenger after the right path has been clearly shown to them, have followed other than the Path of the Believers; and all who follow other than the Path of the Believers have contradicted and opposed the Messenger after the right Path has been shown to them. If one thinks that he is following the Path of the Faithful Believers and is mistaken, he is in the same position as one who thinks he is following the Messenger and is mistaken* (An-Nisa’ 4:115).

Consequently, we’ll come into a conclusion that those who differentiate from the message of Allah and the teachings and practices of our Prophet ( PBUH ), are not in conformity with Islam... Very Happy

*Bless*

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Postby Mowhawk » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:45 pm

Yaa Muslimiin/Muslimaat, Somalinet’s amateurs Shuyuukhs, let us all say; Verily all Praise is for Allaah, we praise Him, seek His aid and ask for His forgiveness. We seek refuge in Allah from the evil of ourselves and the evil of our actions. Whomsoever Allah guides then there is none who can misguide him, and whomsoever Allaah misguides then there is none who can guide him. I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah alone, having no partners and I bear witness that Mohamed pbuh is His slave and Messenger. May the peace and blessings of Allah be on the final Prophet Mohamed, his family, his companions and all those who follow in their footsteps until the last day. Therefire, why don’t we all worry about your own necks and leave the judgment of other Muslims to Allah SWT.

The first thing that needs to be done is to define the term Sufi. What is/was classically known as Sufism is not a separate branch or sect of Islam, rather a discipline among all of the other religious disciplines. It is basically the aspect of Islam that deals with ones inner state. Jurisprudence will give one the outward rulings on worship, how it must be done outwardly and what not, but one must have the internal states correct as well, and that's what Sufism is...it's a compliment to the other aspects of Islam. Practically all of the classical scholars of mainstream Islam were also Sufis. Many of the top Sunni scholars like Imam Ghazzali, Imam Malik and Abu Hanifa were Sufi's (there is no Sunni Islam as we know it without these guys).

There is huge tension and division among Muslims, and accordig to their Ullemmas, each could easily find "weaknesses" in others, and may Allah SWT unite us, or the very least tolerate each other. Spread the word and don't waste time in fighting.

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Postby Nuruddin » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:57 pm

Muslim-man, it seems to me that your assuming me and this Law26 character are the same individual, I assure you that we're not.

And I think you misunderstood my concept, Not all wahabis are ruinous theres always a portion in varities of believes that are, in some circumstance.

And as for me not commenting on that topic is becuase waan ku cusbahay meeshaan (somalinet). Topic kaana maanta amar Ilaah baan ku arkay. You have to keep in mind that am quiet adjusting to this website.

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Postby surria » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:31 pm

Fist question is this: Arabman stated "Sufis believe in intermediaries in the form of dead saints. The concepts of sainthood or intermediaries doesn't exist in Islam."

Is it different from the Shia? Don't the Shia Muslims also believe in saints?

mowhawk, this statement has confused me greatly "whomsoever Allaah misguides then there is none who can guide him."

Why would Alah misguide anyone?

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Postby The Arabman » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:41 pm

surria, the Shia Muslims have a different concept. They believe in imams who are infallible.

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Postby Mowhawk » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:34 am

[quote="surria"] mowhawk, this statement has confused me greatly "whomsoever Allaah misguides then there is none who can guide him."

Why would Alah misguide anyone?[/quote]

surria

Hi sister, I'm sorry and let me expalin it again, whom ever Allah Wishes.

Walaalayaal, Muslimiinta waa fara badanyihiin, oo waana kala duwan yihiin, hal Islaam baanu wada heeysannaa oo Quraanka ah, inta soo hartey haa noqoto waxaanu shaqsi ahaan u aaminsanahay. Soo jeedi qodobada aad jeceshahay laakiin naga daaya is dacaayadeenta, iyo xumeeynta. Illaah oo kelliya baa og qofkii janno gelayo.

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Postby muslim-man » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:25 am

mowhawk,

quote "inta soo hartey haa noqoto waxaanu shaqsi ahaan u aaminsanahay"

akhii musliminta waa hal iyo hal dhareeq sida rasulkeena subanaa scw inoo sheegey. kala qeybinta waa naloga digay, waagi rasulka nola, hal farqi lee tasoo ah, ISLAM... waxan ku shega qiso yar hada kahor dhacday.. imam hambali (rahimatullah ilayhi), aya masajid shiica galay, kabihisi isagoo gacma kusita la galay, markasu intu kabihihi hortisa dhigay ayu salad galay masajidka dhexdisa. dadki ba yabay. imamki shicadaa uyimid, oo yiri nin yahow maxa masajidkeni fadliga badan ula so gashay kabahan. oo dhexdisa u dhigtay waliba, hadana salad u xiratay. markas ayu IMan Hambali yiri.. waxyar ii kaadiya , 2rakco ayan dukanayaye. marku saladi dhameyey, yuu ku yiri hadan idin shegaya waxan kabaha ula so galay masajidka xiligi nabiga SCW, waxa maqlay waxa jiri jiray niman SHICA la yirahdo oo kabaha dadka ka xado. marka nimankas kabaha ka ilashada aya la yiri. sida ayan kabaha horteyda u dhigtay...NImani shiicada aha waxey ku yirahden IMAM HAMBALI, waa gii nabiga shica mabajirin..markasuu yiri dee hadeyna jirin waagi nabiga xage ka timaden hadeer Laughing Laughing . Nimanki shiicada ah dib ayey iskugu noqden, waxey ogaden, iney qaldan yihin oo wado, tii nabiga ka dambeysay ey raacen...

Umadan aad maqleysid oo kala dariqa ah, midkaliya aya saxsan wana mida quraanka iyo sunaha wadadisa... marka qof walibao muslim wuxu rabo ma amino karo, wadadu rabana ma raci.. wadada raac la yiri o uu rasuulka u jideeyey. taa wa inuu raaca. waxi aan taa aan raad ku laheyna uu ka haraa.


nurdeen, abti, dont get me wrong law26 iyo adiga inaad laba shaqsiyaa kala tihiin waan ogahay, you seem to share the same feelings about this so called wahabis though, for example in your reply above you said, "And I think you misunderstood my concept, Not all wahabis are ruinous theres always a portion in varities of believes that are, in some circumstance"

who are this runious wahabis you are reffering to? you may ask why i am asking this? i am asking this because i came to realise the so called wahbis are the people who are calling people to the deen, the true folowers of sunnah and deen of rasulu llah scw. these people are called wahabis by the westerners and the innovators (bashir goth and co)because their job is similar to what sh muhamad abdulwahab raximatullah ileyhi undertook (dacwa to truee islam and the adherence to Qur'an and Sunnah).


When i was in africa people used to call these callers to the true deen (god bless them) gar dheers (astaqfurullah) because they sported long beards ( a sunnah of the prophet) and short trousers and said music isxaraam etc.

look at the character named the law for exmaple, he is calling al sheikh bin baz and she wahab hypocrites subxanallah. he has no evidence to show they are what he is accusing them OF or how they deviated from the true sunnah. in this thread alone he was asked counless times to bring eveidence against this sheikhs! where is his evidence against them?? the evidence he has brought forth is what is in that long essay of his? can you make anything out it?? astaqfurullah!.

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Postby Beenlow » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:28 pm

Law26, you wrote a long and good answer but you've completely mixed Al-Qaida and culema of Sucuudiah. How come you say that saudi culema aka wahhabis support blowing up other muslims when no one in this world saw one word from ibn baaz, al-albaani, aal as-sheikh, ibn cutheymiin, ibn fawzaan, an-najmee etc saying that this would be allowed?
Actually you can download free netbook "Islam against terrorism v1.20" from "wahhabi culema" netsite www.efatwa.com.
From this site http://www.troid.org/articles/manhaj/in ... laadin.htm you can read book from Ibn Baaz titled "The Advice to Usaamah Ibn Laadin and A warning and Advice to all those who Traverse his Path."
You should read these two books 'cos you are blaming wrong people about something they don't say or do. After that we can talk more.

You wrote: "We have to keep in mind that our deen is a holistic one and not one based on a single Ayat or a Hadith. While oppression may be worse than death we are not governed by vigilantism. The same way we can condemn acts of terrorism as being not only morally repugnant but Islamically impermissible is the same way we can condemn assassinating rulers even if they are tyrants. It's still murder. No matter what we must use should be HALAL means to enact positive change."

I asked you to tell what should be done to these bad muslim rulers and give evidence from Qur'an and Sunnah, you forgot the most important part; the evidence. Every ayat and hadiith there is about muslim rulers tell what I already wrote; obey them if they are muslims, no matter how bad they are, 'cos revolting only leads to something worse. These ayats and ahadiith are clear, no room for other kind of interpretation. Remember, our rulers are what we deserve, look at muslim ummah today, we don't even deserve this what we have.

One thing I still want you to answer: please tell where ibn baaz and ibn abdul wahhaab went wrong? Don't say: "wahhabis say...". rather say: "Ibn Abdulwahhaab said this, and it's wrong because..." Calling someone a munaafiq is a big thing, munaafiqiin are worse than kuffaar, they will be in the bottom of jahannam, so you better write good argument for your claims.


Muslim man, masha Allah bro, you are right 100%

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Postby BiKiNi_ChiC » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm

what is sufisn? Confused

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Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:19 am

Arabman
Those laws aren't enforced. Now, you seem to be indicating that you agree that local laws should be decided upon by each country. That contradicts earlier posts you made which indicated that Shari'a was the only law acceptable.

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Postby The Arabman » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:58 pm

Officer, it's true I previously indicated Shari'a is the only law acceptable. However, my earlier post regarding local laws restricting women doesn't contradict what I have indicated. Of course, you're entitled to conclude it that way, but I don't intend to prolong an argument for the sake of argument. I will argue and extend it when it's a meaningful argument, insh'Allah.


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