Muslim women got the ok

[Gamadid.]

Qansagabeyle, saxib, I don't feel good about calling people's beliefs into question and never did that before as I am not a perfect muslim myself and don't have specific guarantees from god that I am bound to heaven while the rest are bound to hell if I don't live up to the covenants I accepted.

I would welcome Jews and christians better into my life and struck up friendship with them than dealing with a muslim who twists Allah's religion. That is more dangerous than the Jew and the Christian who never heard of islam or heard about it in a negative light. It is my responsibility to be sensible with them as they have no idea what islam is all about except what they heard from its enemies. But how do you deal with a guy who rejects everything islamic yet will swear upon God's name that he is muslim? That is totally f-ucked up.

If I was blind, I would have condemned every jew and christian using islam out of context.

This is a problem with many muslims both devout muslims and the devinely screwed up like Law26. They don't look for the context of a verse and make an effort to understand what it says and why it says what is says, or if there was a reason of revelation and so on so forth. Just as long as it fits their idea of correctness, they will use it agaisnt anyone. The devout muslims who out of passion for islam make mistakes can be easily dealt with, but the screwed up mentalities bent on reducing islam to a rubble need no mercy.

Anyway, I should read for some exams. I have no reason to be here and spend anymore time than I have already wasted. Thanks for saying hi saxib and keep up the good work.

[Mowhawk]

None of us are perfect? We can only do our best, and help others and be as kind as possible to exchange opinions in accordance with Muslim behavior. There is one Islam but there are many interpretations out there.

There are two issues involved here, one is the question raised by Turabi and the other, who are the people of the Book?

What Allah clearly says in the Koran is Muslim men may marry "people of the book." and yes, there is no similar commandment or hadith which explicitly tells Muslim women to do the same, or like Turabi said, there are no ayats, or hadiths that outright bans them not to do. There have always been Muslims. Adam was a Muslim. But what do we mean by "People of the Book" and do they literally still exist today?

I have heard many Imams explain how Allah has been clear on many topics, (in terms of what is prohibited and not) and this is one of the few issues He didn’t mention anything, and it is in these areas we are to use our intelligence to discern and to decide. Those Sheikhs I talked to have not been able to produce a quote from the Koran or hadith. I have heard some interesting 'reasons' though- one being the protection of a Muslim woman because a non-Muslim man is allegedly likely to denigrate her faith etc, and another do people of the book still exist today.

The Koran tells us to consult the learned men who came before, referring to pious Christians and Jews, so Allah knew that they had great value. Who are those people of the Book? Do they still exist today? How about if they still believe in the O.T? I don’t know the answer about the last question, but let us for a minute concentrate on Catholics to make a point. Are the Catholics who believe in Trinity considered as people of the Book? In my humble opinion, I believe that the Trinity is shirk. Yes, There is an ayat that sanctions Muslim men to marry are addressed to the believers. Also, remember that Allah says in 2:221 that NO Muslim can marry someone who commits shirk. That was where the ayat Saladin posted comes in. From that perspective, I think it was only intended to the believers of the past. We have to put it into context. It says to them if they believed their previous scriptures properly then Muslim men can marry “people of the Book”. We should use our aql to judge those issues. Islam is one but Muslims vary, and even Muslim scholars debate and discuss issues before they come to an Ijma. In issues where they can’t, like the four Imams of Sunni Islam, they do share admiration and respect towards each other.

Allah knows best.

[Google [Bot2]]

Why do you guys bother with Law26 he is fraud! Check out this link

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message ... nID=369803

The dude is plagiarizing from a female poster by the name of miraj in another forum. Absolutely pathetic. Seriously don’t waste your energy on this fraud.

[quote="The Law26"]

A simple study of this history reveals that a vast number of the famous male companions of our prophet pbuh only converted some considerable time after their wives. In some cases, it was many years later. One of our Prophet pbuh daughters remained married to a non-Muslim man after the revelations of the Qura’an.

This prohibition actually derives from a pre-Islamic custom called kaafa, whereby an Arab woman was expected to marry at or above her station or level. The Arab Gulf nations still follow this tradition, requiring permission from the government even to marry non-Arab Muslims, as they consider Arabs to be the highest of all humans. It was considered a disgrace to her father and family for an Arab tribes-woman to marry a non-Arab man,

This custom is still practiced and codified in law in Saudi Arabia today where it is illegal for a Saudi Arab woman to marry a non-Arab man, even if he is Muslim. Our Prophet pbuh warned against such arrogance in his final address when he declared that an Arab is no better than a non-Arab, etc. While there is nothing in the Qura’an or ahadith to forbid marriage between Muslim woman and Christian or Jewish men, tradition has discouraged it.
.[/quote]

and miraj from beliefnet.com
[/quote] This is an issue of intense debate as there is nothing in the Quran that prophibits Muslim women from marriage with men of the Book and Muslim women, including one of the Prophet's daughters, remained married to non-Muslim men after the revelations of the Quran.

Any prohibition is extra-Quranic and actually derives from a pre-Islamic custom called kaafa, whereby an Arab is expecte to marry at or above her station. The Gulf nations still follow this tradition, requiring permission from the government even to marry non-Arab Muslims, as they consider Arabs to be the highest of all humans.

This is not Islam, please understand.

There are millions of Muslimas married to non-Muslims and the numbers are growing. The tradition of Muslim women limiting themselves to Muslim men while Muslim men marry non-Muslims in droves will die in the west without a doubt. I'm an example of the change, having married out myself. [/quote]

Any resemblance? In fact these ppl have debated this issue to death in many different threads on their forum. This low life scavenges from the droppings of miraj and pretends like its his arguments. Gamadid don’t bother with the fraud.

[Mowhawk]

JB

Thanks for the link, I kind of like the different perspectives that these people approached the issue without resorting to name calling. It seems they are mature and conscientious Muslims how they debate issues. It is common for Somalinetters to steal ideas and paliagarize chunks from others.

What is your take on Turabi's call?

[michael_ital]

'Light, mahaadsantahay, huuno.

Interesting debate, but Gama, I fail to see where the ayat's you quoted explicitly state your contention on this matter. As I see it, you're giving us your own interpretation of it.

[Gamadid.]

Mike,

I wrote something to you but decided to come with some more explanation later on(another day probably if what I am going to say briefly doesn't cut it for you somewhat). Before then, think in terms of jewish and christian status in light of the Quran, who the jewish groups spoken positively in the Quran are and who are those same people of the book condemned to disbelief, polytheism and idolatry. From that point/approach, you will understand idolators, Jews and Christians are no different from each other practically speaking, hence, their out of luck to be intimate islamically with muslim women according to the verse that prohibits it. Go back and check Albaqara Verse 221 quoted above.

Law26 wants to give these jews and christians the same status as Muslims and contends their marriage to muslim women shouldn't be questioned. The verses he quoted have nothing to do with justification for that and he doesn't understand it or willfully twisting. Anyway, this is just simple issue and that is the debate as of recent. Hope that helps. At minimum, there is clear aversion to the union than there is acceptance of it in islam. If such was the case that marriage between the two groups was that easy, even muslim men wouldn't be cautioned of the practice and chastity wouldn't be a qualifying factor. It would be an open field. Like I said before, A woman who loves God wouldn't find her interest in a nonmuslim too attractive. This is a matter dependent on one's faith and how strong or weak it is. This is the same with the men, As allah mentioned to them, the attractiveness of a free woman who is not a believer doesn't equate on scale getting married to a woman who believes in God. Think about the muslim woman then and her marriage to a nonmuslim man? God is first.

some other time.

[intellex]

[quote="michael_ital"]'Light, mahaadsantahay, huuno.

Interesting debate, but Gama, I fail to see where the ayat's you quoted explicitly state your contention on this matter. As I see it, you're giving us your own interpretation of it.[/quote]


mike

what is the answer that you are looking for sxb ? the brother already explained , what is it that you dont see or want to hear??

[michael_ital]

Gama, i've read it and re read it, and it IS quite clear. To me it refers to those Jews and Christians who put Jesus on the same plane as Allah, or who, to term it correctly, worship, or idolize him. In essence, according him a higher status than prophet. But not all Christians and jews view him this way. Does this still qualify them as idolators?

[***MUNA***]

Michael

Are you catholic?

[michael_ital]

Muna

No, I reverted almost 3 years ago.

[Unclebin]

Mike Imma find an italian guy at HAMDI one of these visits. Soon enough chap sooooooooon enough

I've even seen some indo yar and mad persians and hindis

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="michael_ital"]Muna

No, I reverted almost 3 years ago.[/quote]

Why did you convert, I'm curious?