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Cawar

So Caato was part of the Mooryaan system(in its old meaning not the clan one)? I wasnt aware of that. And is Carte dead? Maybe I am old as Sade is saying...

And Silanyo should be in your book. He is probably one of the best technocrats the nation has ever produced. He is an Economist of the highest calibre; the guy got a First from Manchester University - one of England's most elite Uni's - and then did Masters there. He maybe biding his time. And look at his achievements: he neutred the SNM giving politicos the power in Somaliland immediately after liberation. Who else did that afyter the Nuksah? Detail my friend, detail.

Dowladsade

War ninyahow ilaa intii Kismayo la qabsaday xaalkaagu waa bariga dhexe. Maalin dhexdaaasa waxaan ku arkayey adoo taageeraya Wadaadada. Naso oo maraq badan cab.

Galol

Silanyo is someone I know only by name...thats why..But I wonder why you guys got rid of him after all he's done for SNM and S/Land???

Anyhow, If you hear Moorayaan...Cusman caato is the Synonym...not to mention that he did actually loot OUR house personally...before Ceydid took over the house till he died the miserable death...and now he is back...so he is out of the equation.


BUt yeah Cumar Carte Qaalib was one of the few I really admire abt Siad's government despite his short commings.

Cawar

Bleeding hell man. So Caato was just another Mooryaan? In any other race or culture someone somewhere will be recording this.

I know a Bengali organisation called `Nirmul' (uprooting) whose sole purpose is listing and outing those who sided with the Pakistani army during the 1971 fight for freedom. They trace every rape; every looting; every atrocity to the minutest detail: Who? where? when? what?

I recoiled at first: I thought they were vindictive. But then how else can you prevent people like Caato simply changing their colours?

[quote="Galol"]Cawar

You raise a serious point to Awahab's characteristically spoofy provocation. Siyad Barre was an effective leader but he was not a good leader let alone a great one. Great leaders leave with their legacies intact or at least dormant but attractive enough to a critical mass of people to revive it.

What Siyad gave us was a real sense of nationhood - for just over a decade. He then went on about demolishing it with almost suicidal stupidity. Thus when the crunch came as it always does for dictators, there were no institutions strong enough to maintain(and reform) the system even if he was not there.

It is a sad indictment of the camelshagging race that we havent managed to produce anything that even matches the achievements of this silly and failed brute. That doesnt make him great it makes us pitiful.[/quote]

With running the risk of sounding like a "cheerleader", I have to say that that was an astutely brilliant synopsis. I loved "It is a sad indictment of the camelshagging race that we havent managed to produce anything that even matches the achievements of this silly and failed brute. That doesnt make him great it makes us pitiful."

And Forget Sade's proclomation that you're too old. It's that he's too young. But he's learning.

^Stop the ass-licking Mickey..the dude is gettin increasingly senile if no one else noticed the symptoms


for goodnesssake sake he put the worthless caato on a pedestal he has definetely never been on

LoL @ ass licking

I read this "How about Caato though? Still around you know... just a thought... " But it doesn't sound as if hes being put on a pedestal. Cawar shot that down successfully.

Mike

Thanks mate. You may like suucking up but your interest in Somali affairs is certainly genuine and real.

And Cawar is a little bugger who is adept at shooting down my stuff at any time but this Caato issue seems more serious - it certainly shocked me. I saw Caato as some kind of `mooryaan lite' with intellect.

It appears I was wrong.

[quote="Galol"]Cawar

Bleeding hell man. So Caato was just another Mooryaan? In any other race or culture someone somewhere will be recording this.

I know a Bengali organisation called `Nirmul' (uprooting) whose sole purpose is listing and outing those who sided with the Pakistani army during the 1971 fight for freedom. They trace every rape; every looting; every atrocity to the minutest detail: Who? where? when? what?

I recoiled at first: I thought they were vindictive. But then how else can you prevent people like Caato simply changing their colours?[/quote]


Galol, that sounds like a good idea. A lot of politicians would be hung.

Caato is not a good leader in peace time. His biggest weakness is his lust for money. Caato has lost all credibility with his clan especially after being in cahoots with the UIC when they attacked the lone CabdiQeybdiid. He worked hard to curry favor with the UIC by sacrificing the 1 man who sided with him against Caydiid.

Among my clan, I would have a high regard for Ambassador Kemiko and Maxamed Farax Jimca'ale. Both are technocrats and weren't involved in the civil wars.

Regarding Siyaad Barre, he was probably worst than any warlord even Caato. Siyaad came to power without any resistance. He had the good will of the Somalis until 1979 and slowly lost it one region/qabiil at a time. During his rule, his best years were from 1969 to 1976. He behaved well as most dictators do in their first term.

He unlike any other warlord had the platform of a state to carry out his activities. Siyaad was the first Somali leader to commit public executions of his opponents. He used the State to prosecute its citizens: economically, politically and culturally.

Caato is a mere small fish compared to Siyaad. His actions were minute compared to Siyaad. He was a product of Siyaad's dictatorship which destroyed the 1 thingwhich kept Somalis from using guns to implement change: DEmOCRACY.

If Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke was horrible, you had a chance in 1972 to VOTE him out. Siyaad took that away and thus prevented the people from making changes peacefully by the ballot box.

So Caato/Yalaxoow/Aideed/Riyaale/Hiiraale and the rest are just the pupils of the Siyaad Barre Academy of Political Science. Each trying to emulate their late Professor's "Madaxweyne 101" class.

Back to the topic at hand ?

When are the UIC and TFG gonna get it on?

A/Wahab

I agree with the accuracy of most of what you said. What is open to discussion is a whole number of issues including ideological and practical ones. To put it simply, was democracy already not failing in the nine years after independence before the coup? Was the harshness of Siyad's rule in the 70s including executions a price worth paying for the strong, powerful nation that he created?

As for Caato I agree he was a minor fish in comparison to the big beasts of Somali politics since independence.

But is he a criminal? What is your view on this?

Accuracy my behind Galol...lool

Siad was as Patriotic as anyone could be...and when he shot Salad gabyre et al and the wadaado it was for the good of the country...not that he was right mind you...

However, Its the Somalis who turned the tide to qabil, and yes MJ being the first ones...Isaaqs being second..so the guy being the dictator he has become had to defend his throne...and when the accident happened in 1987....it was all about Marexanism...

But to compare or even mention his name in the presence of a Moryan like Caato is just down right insult...believe me I knew Caato(The Garaashle, he is yet to be judged by a Court of Somalis for heinous crimes)....and you wouldnt even compare him with our resident AW

Let me ask a question. Can Barre's actions, in hindsight, be classified as atrocities against his people ? And if so, can he then REALLY be classified as a patriot? I classify a patriot as someone who loves his people and his country, at any and all costs, and if someone committs atrocities against them, then he forfeits the title of patriot, no?

cawar

You seem to justify Siad's shortcomings and worse as merely being part of dictatorship. This implies at least an element of acceptance of the dicatorship itself as a legitimate system of governance. This is a fundamentally flawed thinking. People who are under forced rule have got a right to rise up and reject those who forced their rule on them.

Siad's failure in part was not allowing an outlet for peaceful desent as tried by a cross section of Somali society including members of his own government. you cant blame the MJs and Isaqs or anyone else for resorting to arms when all other means of opposition have been closed.

"Siad was as Patriotic as anyone could be...and when he shot Salad gabyre et al and the wadaado it was for the good of the country...not that he was right mind you..." That's one oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Siad Barre is no better than Caato and Co. Don't justify one killing with patriotism and condemn another my friend.

I challenge and defy anyone of you to come up with anyone like Siad Barre???

Dont let qabilism have the better judgement over you..look at the man through nwhat he did for Somalis...in poisitive or in negative...

Lets suppose that you are not any of the Qabils he harmed...OK??



Demure,

I really dont know where you coming from??? M.F. Siad was (to name just one) one of the wealthiest guys in Xamar...Heck..he used to trhow parties every single weekened....Under Siad's rule....can he do that now?? or for the last 16 yrs???


PS...Siad Barre was our ruler...lets get that straight....dont confuse him with Garaashle just becaue he happens to hail from your qabil...Caato ku lahaa....