Americans Cant Win in Iraq

[Cilmiile]

Unless they nuke a medium-sized Iraqi town. That would get the attention of Iraqis.

If they persist in being disruptive kill a 3 thousand a day. A million a year.

That is how Saddam kept them quiet.

Otherwise get the hell out of there.

[Ashlee~]

Yup thats the only way they can win. If I were them I would kill like 20k shias in Basra Then they would notice not to fukk wit me

[PragmaticGal]

It will be a pyrrhic victory then wouldn't it?

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

I've been thinking about this lately. What if the actual plan is to create a civil war in Iraq, causing extremists of all stripes to head there. The Iranians pour in resources to support the Shi'ites. The Saudis and Syrians poor in resources to support the Sunnis. They all sell oil to get cash to get resources. The war goes on and on, causing massive disraction in the Islamic world. Perfect.

[gurey25]

The best case scenario for the US and Isreal is the current situation where you have useless, utterly incompetant and weak, regimes in the middle east.

These will always be weak, and always depend on the US for thier survival, as an added benefit, these regimes will keep Islam, in Check, better than the west can.


Now when you create an iraq out of the entire middle east. and shit hits the fan, you have unpredictability.

You dont know what will come out of that mix.

When you throw in shias of all types, wild wahabis, domesticated wahabis, sufis, nationalists, tribalists etc etc etc.
and they all massacre each other.


You never know what may evolve.
It may be able to actually think for itself, and become a real threat.

[Gacalisa]

Bravo, the atheist Mad Mac finally figured out the initial plan............ .

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

You know, IF that was the plan, I like it. Very Machiavellian. I would gain newfound respect for Bush if that were the plan.

[Gedo_Boy]

MAD MAC,

Even if that WERE the plan, Bush had nothing to do with it, I can assure you.

Hindsight is 20/20. A strengthened Saddam would have been the best thing to curb the Shia threat. There's no way the current chaos was planned in Iraq. If they could turn back time, I'm thinking now the US would do anything to have Saddam back and would have even engaged him and played nice with him especially because of Ahmedinijad's current posturing.

Iraq under Saddam was 'Martha Stewart Living' compared this.

I can see if you say that might be the plan in Somalia, where there is absolutely no effect on much of anything globally.

I think the general formula is: "Order Where It Counts, Chaos In the 3rd World until terms are favorable"

Why would the US seek to tarnish its credibility, prestige, image, perceived military invincibility on a real sinister plan whose consequences cannot be predicted? I don't think the US would 'plan on chaos' when the stakes are this high.


The psychological effect of a swift & sudden victory in Iraq would have sent all the right messages to all the right people:


http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/axis600.gif

If the US had it their way, they would never play dice in the world's energy hub.


Besides, I think Machiavelli is very overrated. 'Ends justify the means', but that doesn't provide a permanent solution. In the long run, that policy is just a stopgap measure.

How many wars have been fought since Machiavelli and how many will be fought in the future?

[Gedo_Boy]

International Herald Tribune: U.S. forces 'losing' in Iraq, Powell says

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/17/news/policy.php

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

There's a counter argument made to the Powell argument which runs thus:

1. The US won in Iraq when Saddam was captured. It sent the appropriate message to people like Asad, who are a pain in the as$ and certainly do not want to end up in a hangmans noose.

2. Chaos in the Middle East, so long as we can keep the oil flowing, is better than fascists under opposition control.

3. The Arabs need periodic reminders that the US Army can go wherever it wants to and it can not be stopped ever.

I am not sure I buy all of this. But let's face it, finding a simple live and let live solution in todays world is exceedingly difficult. Everyone wants their world vision pressed, and non-state actors insist on trying to use violence to accomplish this, causing reaction amongst states.

[Basra-]

[quote="Cilmiile"]Unless they nuke a medium-sized Iraqi town. That would get the attention of Iraqis.

.[/quote]


You are a genius!