Welcome to SomaliNet Forums, a friendly and gigantic Somali centric active community. Login to hide this block

You are currently viewing this page as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, ask questions, educate others, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many, many other features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join SomaliNet forums today! Please note that registered members with over 50 posts see no ads whatsoever! Are you new to SomaliNet? These forums with millions of posts are just one section of a much larger site. Just visit the front page and use the top links to explore deep into SomaliNet oasis, Somali singles, Somali business directory, Somali job bank and much more. Click here to login. If you need to reset your password, click here. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Daily chitchat.

Moderators: Moderators, Junior Moderators

Forum rules
This General Forum is for general discussions from daily chitchat to more serious discussions among Somalinet Forums members. Please do not use it as your Personal Message center (PM). If you want to contact a particular person or a group of people, please use the PM feature. If you want to contact the moderators, pls PM them. If you insist leaving a public message for the mods or other members, it will be deleted.
OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE
Padishah
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2464
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Ozzieland.

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Padishah » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:13 am

What is there NOT to blame.

Clinton had a cosy deal with Kim, which kept him off the Nuclear Program thing. Bush fucked it up by being the mentslly challenged Texas cowboy, declaring DPRK along with Syria and Iran an axis of evil, promptly laying waste to Iraq, and giving Kim all the incentive he needed for Nukes.

Then, after the debacle in Iraq, they went on the anti-Iranian Nuclear bandwagon, when legally, Iran has the absolute right to do exactly what its doing now, and the IAEA has had full compliance from Tehran, with no problems, obfuscation or delays.

However unsafe Israel feels is a product of their situation; an unwanted Colonial settler state with a bunch of Europeans claiming the land on a 2000 year old document, and on the basis of their non-existent Semitism. Everything else is just detail. Their feelings have no impact on the right of the Iranians to go for peaceful nuclear power.

Just because you and I don't buy it, doesn't mean we can chuck the treaty out the window whenever Washington feels it expedient. That is what caused Iraq!

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:22 am

Padishah
First of all, Clinton, in concert with the international community, made a deal with North Korea which THEY VIOLATED. So let's not pretend that Clinton made a deal that gave North Korea a green light.

Secondly, Bushes declaration (which was Iran, Iraq and North Korea - not Syria) was certainly ill-advised, but Iran has been working on this project for over 20 years. So blaming the Bush administration is a little on the ludicrous side.

Thirdly, while it is true that Iran has maintained the letter of the treaty, nobody believes that they intend to continue doing so. The world is not governed by rule of law, as much as we might wish it so. Once Iran has nukes, that's it, nothing short of a full scale nuclear strike can be done about it. I'm not advocating that, but US policy is pretty clear on this point. We do not consider treaties and international law to be suicide pacts and we will not follow them when it would endanger our security to do so. Until such time as those treaties can be enforced with violence (just as police enforce with violence national laws) then our policy remains reasonable.

Having said that, the invasion of Iraq was probably a foolish mistake which undermined the principal of applying force for self defense and makes any argument for using force now in this scenerio an impossible sell with the security counsel. This would again force the US to go it alone. Since the entire world, including Iran, needs the oil to flow through the Gulf, I recommend we not kick this hornets nest.

As for Israel, whether Muslims like it or not, it is a legal entity (which is the argument you were just using), and it is also probably nuclear armed. The real danger here comes from a situation where Iran miscalculates Israelis paranoia and finds itself on the receiving end of a pre-emptive nuclear strike.

Padishah
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2464
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Ozzieland.

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Padishah » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:32 am

But the Israeli's can be paranoid all they want. They put themselves in the situation where they must intimidate and every so often, bash their neighbours into submission. Only the insane would expect smiles in return after such treatment. As for a pre-emptive strike by Israel, why it would only serve to re-inforce the above scenario.

You, neo-Con pundits, and Israelis alike, forget or purposely obscure the fact that any Iranian attack on Israel would wipe out the Palestinians, and render the whole rationale for launching said attack (as envisioned by the pundits) moot.

Israel knows this; so Israel has a choice. Sit there with its vastly superior army, gaurenteed backing from the World's sole Superpower, and the nuclear detterent, or make an attack in the slight chance the Iranians are suicidal and homicidal enough to launch an attack, which is unlikely.

As for the spirit/letter of the treaty thing; since when did we base foreign policy on what might concievably happen, and subsequently make sure happens, or what is happening and how to continue this path onto more favourable ground? And lastly, the NPT is not a suicide pact, considering that America alone can incinerate this planet several thousand times. Making it sound like allowing Iran to continue with its program monitored by the IAEA is going to somehow yeild a miraculous doomsday device to destory America is a cheap stunt, and easily dismissed; 6,000 American warheads.

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:40 am

But the Israeli's can be paranoid all they want. They put themselves in the situation where they must intimidate and every so often, bash their neighbours into submission. Only the insane would expect smiles in return after such treatment. As for a pre-emptive strike by Israel, why it would only serve to re-inforce the above scenario.

"But you, neo-Con pundits, and Israelis alike, forget or purposely obscure the fact that any Iranian attack on Israel would wipe out the Palestinians, and render the whole rationale for launching said attack (as envisioned by the pundits) moot. "

You are assuming that logic will govern the action. And we are both assuming that Israel and Iran will act logically, and there will be no miscalculation. These may or may not be sound assumptions. Irans determination to develop nuclear weapons, and to replace American hegemony in the Gulf with its own, may cause miscalculation which could lead to a nuclear first strike. I am not saying it is likely or desireable, but it is possible.

"Israel knows this; so Israel has a choice. Sit there with its vastly superior army, gaurenteed backing from the World's sole Superpower, and the nuclear detterent, or make an attack in the slight chance the Iranians are suicidal and homicidal enough to launch an attack, which is unlikely."

I agree. Again, see above.

"As for the spirit/letter of the treaty thing; since when did we base foreign policy on what might concievably happen, and subsequently make sure happens, or what is happening and how to continue this path onto more favourable ground?"

Always. Since the cold war began anyway. Now, you might question (as I would) that the outcome from the invasion of Iraq is ultimately going to be in US interests. Governments miscalculate. But that does not change the fact that the US has always been prepared to use force outside of UN sanction if it deems that to do so is required to protect US interests.

Padishah
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2464
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:10 am
Location: Ozzieland.

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Padishah » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:55 am

Bah, Americans!

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:59 am

No I would say the UN has two functionalities right now that remain useful.

The first is administering aide projects. They do not do this flawlessly by any means. By tens of millions owe their lives to the UNs World Food Program. It is a useful, if flawed, program that has saved many lives.

It also provides a forum for nations to address each other - a venue for dialog.

It would be a mistake to conclude that because it has not been an unqualified success, that it is an unqualified failure. Like most, well meaning human endeavors, it has fallen well short of its goals, but it is still a glass with some water in it.

Maybe someday there will be progress in this domaine. But it will be slow and difficult. Mankind has been in conflict for thousands of years. You don't change that overnight.

User avatar
Karbaash_killa
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:10 pm
Location: Wisil, Galmudug State of Somalia

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Karbaash_killa » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:16 am

Mad Mac..
Not so long ago China flexed thier muscle by demonstrating their capabilaties of targeting a space satalite!
your not considering the impact it could have on the US if one of theirs where to be targeted and so far no one is 100 percent sure of what exactly iran is capable of...

The 6000 neaclear warheads are useless. and all iran needs to do is get a good relationship wityh russia..and the US would be in the recieving end of the attack...

even if Us attack iran and manages to do well...iuran would target the OIL supply in the middle east and we as civilians in the west would pay the price...No body would be able to drive a car!!! the prices would simply be too high!

if a statalite is targetted and destroyed then all tele cumunication would be lost...the western "modern" world would come to a stand still!

i was watching this documentary where they where showing off the US offensive capabilities but they said it has a weak defensive system! even a chines submarine sniffed out 15 american warship with out the americans realizing there was a submarine underneath them in the pasific!!

Irtan can realy phuck up the West!! and America is responsible for it if it happens...

i want america to be defeating on a major scale not like black hawk down or vietnam but in an international embarresment..

Headline.. " The American Bullies got their backsides handed to them" and we can watch ..you guys on aljazeera news...runing around like buncha headless chickens like 9/11.

But United Kingdom would also be a target and that worries me Shocked Shocked

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:40 am

"Mad Mac..
Not so long ago China flexed thier muscle by demonstrating their capabilaties of targeting a space satalite!
your not considering the impact it could have on the US if one of theirs where to be targeted and so far no one is 100 percent sure of what exactly iran is capable of..."

OK, we're 99% sure. And targetting satellites is well beyond Irans capacity right now.

"The 6000 neaclear warheads are useless. and all iran needs to do is get a good relationship wityh russia..and the US would be in the recieving end of the attack... "

WRONG. Russia is not going to risk Moscow for Tehran. Also, Russia and China NEED the US. Theý don't NEED Iran. There is a difference. Iran is not going to find a big brother to protect it. A veto in the security counsel? Sure. An ally who would risk everything for them? No.

"even if Us attack iran and manages to do well...iuran would target the OIL supply in the middle east and we as civilians in the west would pay the price...No body would be able to drive a car!!! the prices would simply be too high!"

Yes, this is a real danger. Not that that would be much consolation to the Iranians. But there can be no doubt it would have an extremely negative effect on the global economy. Like I said, nobody wants this kind of scenerio. But it would be a mistake to assume it is not possible either.

"if a statalite is targetted and destroyed then all tele cumunication would be lost...the western "modern" world would come to a stand still!"

I would take more than the targetting of one satellite. There is a lot of redundancy in the system. But this is currently well beyond Irans capabilities anyway.

"i was watching this documentary where they where showing off the US offensive capabilities but they said it has a weak defensive system! even a chines submarine sniffed out 15 american warship with out the americans realizing there was a submarine underneath them in the pasific!!"

Again, China is a full blown nuclear power, although it's force projection capability is limited. But Iran is not China. It would be a mistake to compare the two.

"Irtan can realy phuck up the West!! and America is responsible for it if it happens..."

But Iran would be utterly and completly destroyed if it did that. And I do mean utterly and completely.

"i want america to be defeating on a major scale not like black hawk down or vietnam but in an international embarresment.. "

Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

"Headline.. " The American Bullies got their backsides handed to them" and we can watch ..you guys on aljazeera news...runing around like buncha headless chickens like 9/11."

Consider the implications of what you are saying. The GLOBAL ECONOMY depends on the US. It is a major part of the economic engine of this world. If the US economy were to collapse, the entire worlds economy would come apart.

"But United Kingdom would also be a target and that worries me"

Iran is not going to target squat:

a. because it can't right now
b. because it doesn't want to be on the receiving end of a few hundred MIRVs.

You are just talking nonsense right now.

User avatar
Karbaash_killa
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:10 pm
Location: Wisil, Galmudug State of Somalia

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Karbaash_killa » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:09 am

Mad mac..

your not being realistic...if underestimating your enemy is what motivates you to attack them then so be it.. But a Nuclear attack is out of the question as the US has agreed Not to ue nuclear at any given ocnflict but only on a self defence bases... so weather or not Iran are few years from Nuclear doesnt imply the impression that you have of iran!

On water Iran has highly suffisticated submarines bought and remodified by the iranians and it would be a close one on water ..

On the ground Iran is well equipt for their own defence and the US wouldnt reach that far if they did ..it would be a trsaight forward beating... from the air...US aircraft would all have to fly above 13000 ft other wise chances are they will be nogded one by one....at the point of trespassing the iranian border from every angel..

Most of these thought are adopted from special analyst on question time and Al jazeera eng..

So dont under estimate Iran because you think its sounds appropriate..even major analyst of war..who predicted hte incasion of afganistan and then irak an now are predicting iran say...

This will be a quit a supriser form the U.S

Soo Mad Mac...you and me we'll just have to take our bikes and we might as well start saving now if we dont have anything saved because OIL prices will blow.. the worlds ecemony will loose stabilaty all thanx to america....and by the way ...America is what holding the world economy back ...

If the American economy collapses we would experience short term effects but its only a matter of time when the American oil companies are sent home ..New Asian and russian companies would take over..Africa would finally bloom and the midle east would suffer from the war the most but eventully turn out to be much safer then ever ..the evaporation of Isreal wouldnt be out of the question! Laughing !

Ismahan445
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2457
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Galinsoor

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Ismahan445 » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:23 am

People, as much as US wants to attack Iran, they simply will not do it. If the US attacks Iran it will be WWIII, Iran is a will equiped country...may be better than the US because it has allies with China and NK and is developing strong relations with Russia now. Iran is in a important geographical location for the US and with the war in Iraq, they simply can't afford the be in another war in the region because of the Economy which is already struggling and the OIL. We are already payinng $57-73 a barrel for oil in the US....that is a bitch for US American...besides both the senate and congress are Democratic majority so that war will never happen anytime soon Very Happy

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Re: Iran Plans To Nuke Europe, US - Sanctions Urged !!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:54 am

"your not being realistic...if underestimating your enemy is what motivates you to attack them then so be it.. But a Nuclear attack is out of the question as the US has agreed Not to ue nuclear at any given ocnflict but only on a self defence bases... so weather or not Iran are few years from Nuclear doesnt imply the impression that you have of iran!"

Actually this is incorrect. The US HAS NOT agreed to no first use. In fact, it's stated policy is otherwise (Clinton not withstanding) but first use seems to be highly unlikely.

"On water Iran has highly suffisticated submarines bought and remodified by the iranians and it would be a close one on water .. "

Iran bought second generation Russian nuclear subs. That is two full techonology levels inferior to what we have in the ocean right now. And they have three of them. There is zero chance the Iranians can challenge the US Navy.

"On the ground Iran is well equipt for their own defence and the US wouldnt reach that far if they did ..it would be a trsaight forward beating... from the air...US aircraft would all have to fly above 13000 ft other wise chances are they will be nogded one by one....at the point of trespassing the iranian border from every angel.."

Iran is poorly equiped and could not even defeat the Iraqi National Army. If you look at it's armor inventory it fields nothing even remotely comparable to the M1A2 Tank. The US ARmy would go through Iran like a hot knife through butter. Our forces are simply MUCH more lethal and our intelligence architecture is much more robust. Occupying and controlling the country would probably not be possible, but the Iranians would be unable to deny us any terrain.

"Most of these thought are adopted from special analyst on question time and Al jazeera eng.."

Most of these are invented in your own head.

"So dont under estimate Iran because you think its sounds appropriate..even major analyst of war..who predicted hte incasion of afganistan and then irak an now are predicting iran say..."

I am a professional analyst you focking idiot. The Iranian armed forces are inferior across the board.

"This will be a quit a supriser form the U.S"

No there is no surprise. The only surprise is that you are even more of a moron than I thought.

"Soo Mad Mac...you and me we'll just have to take our bikes and we might as well start saving now if we dont have anything saved because OIL prices will blow.. the worlds ecemony will loose stabilaty all thanx to america....and by the way ...America is what holding the world economy back ..."

America is holding the world economy back? How do you figure? Can you support this bold statement with facts?

"If the American economy collapses we would experience short term effects but its only a matter of time when the American oil companies are sent home ..New Asian and russian companies would take over..Africa would finally bloom and the midle east would suffer from the war the most but eventully turn out to be much safer then ever ..the evaporation of Isreal wouldnt be out of the question!"

No they would be long term effects. America produces more than a quarter of the worlds GNP and 10% of the worlds food. China's economy is extremely dependent on the US. Wake up and smell the coffee because while you might wish America would go away, it ain't going to happen.

Now, on to the issue of Iran. Warfare is decided by resources, and the US has superior resources across the board. More people, more money, superior technonology, far more advanced armed forces. This isn't the 6th century. Digging a trench isn't going to work. In conventional warfare (which you have to conduct to hold ground), Iran doesn't even have a 1% chance.


OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE

Hello, Has your question been answered on this page? We hope yes. If not, you can start a new thread and post your question(s). It is free to join. You can also search our over a million pages (just scroll up and use our site-wide search box) or browse the forums.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General - General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 8 guests