No army, I can tell you that, can stop what is coming up!

[Warsame101]

Salahuddiin, walaal, the Sirah of Ibn Hisham contains many untraceable narrations and he admits that in his preface, similiar to some of Tabari's works. But nevertheless, provide the reference so I could look in to it because frankly I have never across a ruling approving this type of behaviour whilst there are rulings prohibiting such behaviour.

As for the letters, I think you mean the ones sent by the Nabiga (SCW) where he invites them to the Diin. Two things about this, first he is the Prophet and for all we known some part of the Unseen (al-ghayb) might have been available to him. Secondly, he never said he is going to crush their armies, rather he said, if you do not accept the Diin then there will be great punishment (for those who reject Islam).

Remember the words that ina Caydiid used, "no army will be able to stop it". What kind of foolish talk is that.

[Koronto91]

[quote="Warsame101"]Remember the words that ina Caydiid used, "no army will be able to stop it". What kind of foolish talk is that.[/quote]

This is indeed the talk of a fool, the same fool who has been Ethiopia's paid agent in Somalia for over a decade. But, who are you to say that the fall of the ICU was mostly due to their arrogance or boasts? Since when do you know about "ilm-al-ghayb"? Allah does as he pleases.

Sometimes Muslims loose so that they may be tested or it could be that the people the ICU was trying to help were vile people who harbored hypocrisy in their hearts. There is a million reasons why the ICU is no longer around and Allah is the only one who knows.

[biko]

"There is a million reasons why the ICU is no longer around and Allah is the only one who knows."

and the bigest reason is TREACHERY! there is no hiding from that simple reality... spineless cowards who sold their soul and now trying to bargain with that of a nation.

[Warsame101]

Koronto91, there is an Islamic principle that what ever defeat comes from and what ever good and victory comes from Allah.

The scholars wrote that when Muslims engage in Jihad, Allah either rewards them with Victory if they have been upholding every aspects of the Islamic principles and Defeat if they have disobeyed Allah by adhering to some of the principles and disregarding the others even if they have got the most righteous Muslims amongst them (in this case Sheikh Shariff Sheikh Axmed)

Remember the ayaat in Surah Al-Anfal where Illaahey says:

"And fear an affliction which will not strike those who have wronged among you exclusively, and know that Allah is severe in penalty."

meaning even if there are the most righteous in your ranks, you will bear the brunt of defeat.

Koronto, it is to late to make excuses for the ICU. The senior officials themselves have admitted that they have made mistakes that caused them the defeat.

[Koronto91]

[quote="biko"]and the bigest reason is TREACHERY! there is no hiding from that simple reality... spineless cowards who sold their soul and now trying to bargain with that of a nation.[/quote]

So, let me understand this. God, the almighty will help infidels & traitors destroy a Muslim army, invade Muslim land, kill thousands of Muslims in the process and oppress a Muslim nation, so that the ICU is destoyed because they are the "traitors" and the Mbagathi regime are not "traitors"

Who are the "spineless cowards" the thousands of men who left their families to fight off an invading army? Fathers, sons, brothers, etc. who were united by religion?

[Koronto91]

[quote="Warsame101"]Koronto, it is to late to make excuses for the ICU. The senior officials themselves have admitted that they have made mistakes that caused them the defeat.[/quote]

Nobody is denying this, but to try to villify the ICU & give dumb reasons as to their defeat is just ridiculous. Are you saying Sh. Umal, Sh. Shariif Abdi Nur, Hassani, Sh. Umar Faarooq, Sh. Abdurashid Ali Sufi & other Somali religious scholars were all mad for supporting the ICU? Who is more knowledgable about Fiqh than Sh. Umal? He was an adamant supporter of the ICU and was in Mogadishu during the opening ceremony of Masajidka Isbaheysiga.

[Warsame101]

Kortonto, sxb, read what I wrote walaal. Whilst the ICU had many righteous Muslims in their MIDST, the group as a WHOLE will receive the punishment. If you are not denying that ICU lost on mistakes, then what is your argument? ICU were awarded Victory when they ousted the warlords and awarded Defeat when things gone to their heads.

And besides, whilst some of these people are scholars, that does not mean that they infalliable. They have made a mistake and acknowledged that the Defeat came from their own mistakes.

I want you to read this treatise by the late heavyweight scholar, Sheikh Ibn al-Uthaymin (RH) titled:

Causes of Victory and Defeat
http://www.islaam.net/main/display.php? ... ategory=13

[biko]

[quote="Koronto91"][quote="biko"]and the bigest reason is TREACHERY! there is no hiding from that simple reality... spineless cowards who sold their soul and now trying to bargain with that of a nation.[/quote]

So, let me understand this. God, the almighty will help infidels & traitors destroy a Muslim army, invade Muslim land, kill thousands of Muslims in the process and oppress a Muslim nation, so that the ICU is destoyed because they are the "traitors" and the Mbagathi regime are not "traitors"

Who are the "spineless cowards" the thousands of men who left their families to fight off an invading army? Fathers, sons, brothers, etc. who were united by religion?[/quote]
__________________________________________________________________________________________

how come you keep bringing up Allah in this? if you are trying to use it as a cover then dont.


and to answer your Q...God is not helping the infidels but treacherous cowards are already doing it. a so called muslims aiding our arch enemy and a christian one for that. so the ethiopian shelling innocent people day in day out shouldnt be seen as a signe of God helping the enemy, but rather muslims betraying their own will be made to pay. but make no mistake who the victors will be. SOMALIS: not TIGRE.

spineless cowards are those that helped the ethiopian march into a somali soil and paved the way for our women to be raped and children be slaughtered in our door steps.

spineless cowARDS are those that hide behing Allah (like you) and are so quick to point the finger at the ICU when the shelling goes on right under your nose.

spineless cowards are those that cant bring themselves to see somalis united under the baner of Islam, (cos it might make their nomination little bit harder) and will do anything for a sit. even it means selling a whole nation!

[Koronto91]

Warsame101,

I have always admired Sh. Salih Al-Uthaymeen, but he is entitled to his own opinions, just like you said Sh. Umal is entitled to his.

I know one thing, Allah does not destroy a Muslim army and replace them with a corrupt & vile one, in this case:a bunch of murdering traitors and an infidel army. Are you aware that Ibn Baz (rahimulah) said in one of his fatwas that any Muslim who supports a non-Sharia form of governance constitutes Kufr, also any Muslim who seeks the help of an infidel army has crossed paths with Kufr, any Muslim who in their heart supports the invasion of a Muslim land by an infidel army or is happy with destruction of Muslim land has also reached Kufr.

I see many Somalis on this forum who are happy & excited because "Hawiye" civilians are being shelled in Mogadishu, is this how sick we have become? They shall taste the fruits of their ignorance.

[biko]

you are either with the invaders or against them. period!

there is no two ways about.

so stop telling us porkies and say who you suport? the TFG of course; with a big BUT!

[Warsame101]

Koronto, I am going to be straight with you, where are you heading with this? Because you have confused me several times.

Do you accept and acknowledge that ICU's defeat resulted from their disobedience. If no, then why so? in spite of the fact that many of its LEADERS acknowledged that the blame was on them. If the ICU seniors finally accepted that, what makes you reject it?

Secondly, who here is talking about the TFG or the Ethiopians. My position on the current issue is in accordance with the recent fatwa released by the Somali scholars, go figure. But we are not discussing that, we are discussing whether ICU's mistakes caused them defeat. At one point you acknowledged that and in the next post you firmly deny it, hence my confusion sxb

[Koronto91]

biko,

ina abti, we are on the same page. I merely asked you an ironic question, meaning why would Allah choose an infidel army over auslim army, unless it was a test or a lesson for the people. I never supported the TFG or the invasion of Somalia. I have always been a supporter of Sh. Shariif & the ICU and actually visited Mogadishu during their rule and first hand saw their many achievements, may they be rewarded, ameen. I honestly believe the Somali people were not ready for Sharia law nor did they want to give up their ignorant & vile ways, they prefered chewing Khat & watching Porn to defending their land.

To many Somalis, the ICU represented oppression, it meant giving up smoking, porn, khat, clan loyalty, drugs, etc and they would rather be oppressed than fight for Allah's religion.

[Salahuddiin]

Warsame

The same narration about Abu Dujanah is also in al Raheeq al Mahktuum and seerah of Ibn Ishaaq. In compilation of Bukhari or Muslim there is this hadeeth about him that he was given the sword of the Prophet (saws) in the battle of Uhud, I'm not sure if the same hadeeth includes the turban of death and boastful walking and Prophet's (saws) remarks about it. Have to look it up.

I don't mean the letters of Nabi (saws) but letters sent by Umar's generals Khaalid and Abu Ubayda during the conquest of Roman territories and they are numerous. They were very powerful and without a doubt striked terror to receiver's heart. It was written that if you don't convert or pay jizyah, then army where everyone loves death more than you love life won't stop until you are destroyed.

[quote]Remember the words that ina Caydiid used, "no army will be able to stop it". What kind of foolish talk is that.[/quote]

I agree. And this coming from a man like ina Caydiid...

But my point was, that war is deception and although kibir is strictly forbidden, there can be some level of exception (similar example like lying is ok in war but normally haram) and I don't mean proudness in the heart but in appearance and behaviour to frighten the enemy. In battle is good to use psychological warfare as much as possible while knowing with full yaqiin that nasr is only from Allah.

I know the mistakes made by ICU, but we don't know the reason why ICU falled and the final outcome is not clear yet, we don't know what will come out of this. It can also be a test to expose and clear out the munaafiqiin inside or take shuhada, Allahu aclam. Maybe it's all for purification.

Victory doesn't mean that first battle will be won and we take the ghaniima. Shahada is also a victory (maybe the greatest possible victory for individual). It can also be that Allah will give final victory to muslims after many defeats in order to test them if they have the patience and firm trust in Allah in their hearts.

[biko]

-------------------------

[Koronto91]

Warsame101,

The ICU's defeat will always remain a mystery as are all "ilm-al-ghaib" every other excuse/reason is just a heresay! Nevertheless, I do agree with you that Yes, they did make mistakes as we all do, but they did not loose because of their mistakes, that makes no sense. Allah knows best.