human rights???

[*jr]

.

[Grant]

Hillarious is just that.

I favor Obama, but would accept an Edwards-Obama ticket.

No matter who is elected, I expect them to follow perceived American interests with respect to Iran. I think that probably leaves all the options on the table.

[gurey25]

I dont understand the american obsession with Iran.
Is it the pursuit of reveneg for the embassy capture in 79, and defiance?

is it like the grudge the US has for the Habar Gidir?

Iran is Isreal's Problem, not the Americans.
You share common goals and interests..
you both want a stable proseperous afghanistan, you both want a stable Iraq(with or without you, either with a Sunni or Shia government, Iran is gaurenteed to have more influence in Iraq than the US , no matter what you do)

Isreal is the Middle Easts Superpower, it is not a defensless victim that it protrays itself to be,
infact the Middle Eastern governments fear isreal becuase it threatens them more than they threaten isreal.

apart from its nuclear weapons, Isreal can march on Damscus at will and destroy the syrian army,
they can annex Jordan at will, they can engage Egypt and keep the sinai if they want to.

you have created an extremely powerfull monster in the Middle east, and yet most americans think of it as a vulnerable and brave little state surrounded by evil muslims.

You do not need to do isreals figthing for them, if they want to dominate the middle east and inpose thier order, they should risk thier own men.


you dont have to die for isreal.

[biko]

gurey

they have no choice but to fight Israel's war or the least help them with hardware.

why?

because dumb ass bush and his transparent christianity as well as the majority of christians in america have been led to believe, that the only way the massaya will come is if Israel is safe and strong. so this people think their whole existance as well as their faith in the here after depend on Israel.

[gurey25]

i know but they dont realise how powerfull isreal is.

i mean it cant do long operations and it doesnt have the manpower to hold territory,
but they can take on Syria,Egypt,Jordan at once destroy their forces, and then using ballistic missles and airraids destroy their economies, by bombing thier infrastructure.

they can also capture Damscus briefly and annex all of jordan and enter the Tabouk valley in Saudi arabia and threaten the Nejd oilfields and nobody can stop them.

the arabs are patheticly weak and defensless, and thats why they are relying on chemical weapons
to make the isrealis think twice.

[*jr]

I recon most Somalis and Muslim-Americans don't understand the tight bond between Israel and America. This United States of America is based on Judeo-Christian values; hence, if you were raised as Christian the bible tells stories about Israel..."glory toward Promised Land", and many other historical references. So, if you're Christian, in America, your upbringing is seared the memories of such tail-tale stories. Therefore, from such background, many would sympathize with Israel, and many are doing so in the evangelical teachings.

[Grant]

Gurey and JR,

I don't see the Iran issue as revenge, nor do I see it as a necessarily religious matter. Despite the Iran-Syria-Hesbollah-Hamas complex.

The regime does not recognize the inviolability of diplomatic missions and embassies, nor a number of other international conventions.

My personal evaluation of Ahmadinejad is that he is dangerously stupid and irrational. Witness that the winner of his Haulocaust Denial Contest featured the gate to Auschwitz!

The Revolutionary Guard appears to act independantly of the government, and is clearly developing potential to act in both Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

For me the issue is trust, and I have changed my opinion on this matter. I do not trust an Iran that can project nuclear missiles to the EU and beyond, that has so little internal control of it's resources, that does not recognize international conventions and that does not speak with a logic I can understand.

I am not an Evangelical and I would like to see the Palestinians finally get an honest shake. That does not make me pro-Iran, nor would I expect the Democratic party to take that tack. I don't think you even need to include Israel in the equation. The US has plenty to worry about just with it's own interests.

[gurey25]

Grant the Media hype is getting to you.Ahmedinejad is not a special case, he is not stupid or irrational.
i believe you are irrationaly attributing your fears to him.

First of all let me tell you that the entire middle east thinks like him, if they were irrational and stupid things will be allot worse than it is now,

and Aushwitz is not a magic word, an evil name a Taboo , like it is to you.
for the rest of the world it is just a place were a good number of jews and other undesirables were exterminated using industrial methods.
The nazis were not the ultimate evil, they just combined evil with technology,

the mongols killed more people mostly muslims with thier bare hands.

Grant you should not project your mindframe and conditioning on others, other people do not think like you, for example 9/11 was a defining moment in your life and and important event in many western peoples lives, people still ask each other were where you when you first heard of 9/11.

When i heard of 9/11 it was in a cafe watching a football game, and when i changed the channel to watch CNN i was nearly assaulted, the entire cafe with more than 20 people did not give a damn about some 3000 americans getting killed, they were more interested in the game.


in china, they found 9/11 amusing and even funny and entertaining, the same in india.

For Iranians auswitz and crytalnacht are just some distant tales , of some jews getting wacked it has no immotional response, they are moreinterested in the miilion of thier own dead.
for you it is one of the defining events of history, ahmedinejad is simply nusing your sensitivity to bait you.

thats all , its all deliberate, he is sending a message.

For ahmedinejad Isreal is not a miskiiin nation , it is a very powerfull , agrogant and agressive enemy that directly threatens his nations.



different points of view....



now if you ignore ahmedinejad and his deliberate provocations, you will see that Irans foriegn policy is rational, and driven by real politic not religion, they are surrounded by enemies and they need a deterent, Nuclear weapons are such a deterant.
Nuclear weapons are however a longterm objective, they are concentrating more on thre ablitity to withstand attack and continue the program.

[Basra-]

gurey i have always wondered how u can manuevre around various duplicious names around the forum, such as Zulaika, gedo gurl,musika man, monhammed sex, etc etc


Today i found out how u do it. Very interesting!

[Grant]

Gurey,

I see the issues as ones of trust:

I do not trust governments that seize diplomats and take over embassies.

I do not trust governments that say they are pursueing peaceful energy while developing ballistic missiles and accelerating nuclear enrichment programs.

I do not trust organizations like the Revolutionary Guard that operates outside government control and is apparently already active in Saudi Arabia.

I do not trust the reasoning ability of leaders who think they have scored propaganda points with such idiocy as the Haulocaust Denial contest or seizing British sailors checking for smugglers.

-----------------------------

Did you notice any media hype in the above?

----------------------------------

I watched 9/11 live on TV. I rushed out into the street to get a neighbor to watch it with me. My response was one of disbelief. His was one of violent anger.

That strike did exactly what it was intended to do. The stock market collapsed and the economy took a nosedive that lasted several years. I lost over half my retirement funds and my work declined to the point I was just barely able to keep the house paid and the business operating. They "only" killed 3000, but they affected the lifestyles of the entire country. It was an event Americans will use to measure all others for a long time to come.

While it is clear Iran has good reason to fear Israel, it is the US they call the great
Satan. I no longer consider that hype, nor do I discount what it might mean to me personally.

Have you been in the US since 9/11? Bush is condemned for the Iraqi distraction and multiple failed tactics, but NO ONE is talking about ending the war on terror.