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The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Dadka ku dhaqan ama ka imaaday gobolkan

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zumaale
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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby zumaale » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:27 pm

Dir is predominately T1a despite being geographically dispersed, which gives credence to their tribe being real. This haplogroup is almost non-existent among other Afro-Asiatic speakers i.e. Oromo, Afar, Agew etc. However, for some other clans, there is no consensus on a common progenitor, meaning they are a legitimate confederacy of (paternally)related and unrelated tribes under an umbrella. I wouldn't throw stones in a glass house. :lol:

Nonsense,


T1a exists among other Cushitic populations including mixed south Cushitic speaking groups such as Iraqw in Tanzania and Great Lakes Region. There's also high frequencies of T1a in northern Eritrea and southern Egypt but almost non existent in northern Sudan.

Clans are socially constructed but Zumaale and some of his comrades in here are trying to make Dir the exception to the rule.


To the Isaaq forumers,

I don't understand why you need to hijack this thread.
Don't make accusations against me which are not true.

Go through my posts on Google and you will observe that I have repeatedly stated that more research needs to be conducted into Somali genetic clan identities and it is not a given that T is the genetic marker of the Dir clan, I have merely suggested that there is a trend where certain Dir subclans appear to be mainly T.

Niggas are catching feelings about my stance in regard to y-dna cos it disrupts their clan myths. How is that my f-king fault? Every other time DNA is mentioned, certain folk Calcal about 'Zumaale'.

As for T being found in Eritrea and Southern Egypt, Nigga, it is even found among Bantus south of Tanzania and what has that go to do with some Somali T carriers that are the result of a founder effect? Nobody ever claimed it is unique to Somalis or Dir for that matter.

One more thing, T is rare in Egypt and Eritrea. If you want to be more accurate, reference the Tobou of Chad at least, those Niggas got it in relatively high percentages. As things stand, it is probably the second highest percentage in Africa after the Dirs of Djibouti and the Somali samples from K5.

http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2073 ... 8/mmc2.pdf

Enjoy.









Thanato

Ina Adeer, Somalinet is a FKD site. If you want to share information about Mandalug, there are more appropriate platforms whereby one can share information.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Thanato » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:23 pm

^^ I agree bro. The thing is these guys came to the Awdal section just to derail this thread. A thread that has nothing to do with their clan. I've never gone over to their Idoorland section to talk about Idoor clans :lol:

It could have been good but some cuqdad ridden Idoor ruined it.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Ben Dover » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:37 pm

Look at your posts immediately prior to posting this thread and you will know why it received such engagement.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Sophisticate » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:21 pm

Get over this existential crisis you're having and move on. So, what if you don't all share 1 Aabo. Focus on the shared interests you have with each other and your maternal/oral linkages.

FYI unless new results turn up showing Dir samples as being split down the middle, then I might be liable to change my stance but thus far it peaks with them. :troll: Not like it matters though when most Somalis are so related that it's spooky. :?

Bro, if the Aden Madobe of HJ (Issaq) turn out to be T1a then they might actually be related to Aden Yonis from MK (Gadabursi) then that might make them Dir after all. And let's just say we have some of the best farmland in Ethiopia so that might help you in the arid East. Associations do help if you play your cards right.

It's times like these that it's great to be Dir. Zumale might even give you a tour of his bountiful estate in the South, if you play nice. :stylin:

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby grandpakhalif » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:59 pm

Wow, the true langaabs have hijacked this thread.

To the Dir forumers, maybe this sub tribe of Mandaluug perished in Ahmed Gurey or Harari wars, were they mentioned in Futuh al Habesh?

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Thanato » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:58 am

Wow, the true langaabs have hijacked this thread.

To the Dir forumers, maybe this sub tribe of Mandaluug perished in Ahmed Gurey or Harari wars, were they mentioned in Futuh al Habesh?
The only clans mentioned in Futuh are Marehan, Girhi, Habar Makadur, Dir. At that time they would have been under the Dir umbrella.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Ben Dover » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:22 am

Did you not see that clinic Ramzy put on your Makadur claim? He destroyed that lie with evidence from the original Arabic copy of Futuh.

TLDR version: There was no Habar Mkadur mentioned in Futuh. There was Habar Magadle (with their leader Ahmed Gurey) and another clan by the name of HAbar Maqdi (whom were punished for thievery or the like by Ahmad al Ghazi).

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Thanato » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:46 am

Did you not see that clinic Ramzy put on your Makadur claim? He destroyed that lie with evidence from the original Arabic copy of Futuh.

TLDR version: There was no Habar Mkadur mentioned in Futuh. There was Habar Magadle (with their leader Ahmed Gurey) and another clan by the name of HAbar Maqdi (whom were punished for thievery or the like by Ahmad al Ghazi).
Looool, I read Ramzy's posts and it was an extremely weak refutation in my view (I'm fluent in Arabic). I have the Richard Pankhurst edited publication that mentions them to have most likely to been Habar Makadur in the footnotes, as being a corruption of the word 'Maqdi'. Either way, believe what you like. It depends on who you ask, according to I.M Lewis, it is Habar Magaadle, Isaaq. According to Richard Pankhurst, it is Habar Makadur, Gadabursi. To be quite honest, even if they were to find out that the hypothesis was wrong. Doesn't make any difference. As most commentators on Futuh, both Ethiopian and foreigners mention the Northern Dir as having been the greatest participants. So, either way doesn't make a difference.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Ben Dover » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:18 am


Looool, I read Ramzy's posts and it was an extremely weak refutation in my view (I'm fluent in Arabic). I have the Richard Pankhurst edited publication that mentions them to have most likely to been Habar Makadur in the footnotes, as being a corruption of the word 'Maqdi'. Either way, believe what you like. It depends on who you ask, according to I.M Lewis, it is Habar Magaadle, Isaaq. According to Richard Pankhurst, it is Habar Makadur, Gadabursi. To be quite honest, even if they were to find out that the hypothesis was wrong. Doesn't make any difference. As most commentators on Futuh, both Ethiopian and foreigners mention the Northern Dir as having been the greatest participants. So, either way doesn't make a difference.
How was it a weak refutation?

It was right there, written in clear Arabic. No two ways about it. The English transliteration stating that Arabic word had anything to do with Makador is just incorrect. The Arabic clearly mentions Habar Magaadle to be the ones who fought valiantly in the wars, the Arabic also mentions another clan by the name of Maqdi who were punished by Al Gazi. You can claim those if you like :) :up:

Clinging to 3rd party transliteration when we have a copy of the original Arabic shows your case is weak.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Thanato » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:40 am


Looool, I read Ramzy's posts and it was an extremely weak refutation in my view (I'm fluent in Arabic). I have the Richard Pankhurst edited publication that mentions them to have most likely to been Habar Makadur in the footnotes, as being a corruption of the word 'Maqdi'. Either way, believe what you like. It depends on who you ask, according to I.M Lewis, it is Habar Magaadle, Isaaq. According to Richard Pankhurst, it is Habar Makadur, Gadabursi. To be quite honest, even if they were to find out that the hypothesis was wrong. Doesn't make any difference. As most commentators on Futuh, both Ethiopian and foreigners mention the Northern Dir as having been the greatest participants. So, either way doesn't make a difference.
How was it a weak refutation?

It was right there, written in clear Arabic. No two ways about it. The English transliteration stating that Arabic word had anything to do with Makador is just incorrect. The Arabic clearly mentions Habar Magaadle to be the ones who fought valiantly in the wars, the Arabic also mentions another clan by the name of Maqdi who were punished by Al Gazi. You can claim those if you like :) :up:

Clinging to 3rd party transliteration when we have a copy of the original Arabic shows your case is weak.
The Arabic that was written in the original text is:

هبر مقدي

Habr Maqdii. Not Habar Magaadle and not Habar Makadur either.
So linguists will continue the debate. It is out in the open. However one thing is certain. The fighting happened on our lands. Most of the ancient ruined towns of Adal is presently on our lands i.e Amud, Abasa, Awbare, Aububa, Harawa, the lands north of Harar. There is an added geographical significance that adds to the fact that if, anything it is more plausible for them to have been native to our region.
But, hey if it was to be confirmed that he was Habar Magaadle, Isaaq. Good on them! I'm not someone who steals another man's achievements, I would applaud them significantly.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Ben Dover » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:58 am

The Arabic that was written in the original text is:

هبر مقدي

Habr Maqdii. Not Habar Magaadle and not Habar Makadur either.
So linguists will continue the debate. It is out in the open. However one thing is certain. The fighting happened on our lands. Most of the ancient ruined towns of Adal is presently on our lands i.e Amud, Abasa, Awbare, Aububa, Harawa, the lands north of Harar. There is an added geographical significance that adds to the fact that if, anything it is more plausible for them to have been native to our region.
But, hey if it was to be confirmed that he was Habar Magaadle, Isaaq. Good on them! I'm not someone who steals another man's achievements, I would applaud them significantly.
In the original Arabic copy it clearly states Habar Magaadle to be the first to have arrived in the camp:

Image

In fact their leader is called Ahmed Gurey Al Somali:

Image

Which means there were two Ahmeds in the course of Futuh Al Habash, Ahmed Gurey, a Somali of the Habar Magaadle, and the big boss, Ahmed al Ghazi who was the imam.

There is also mention of another clan, Habar Maqdi, they are different, they were bandits and refused to pay Zakat, so they were punished by the Imam:

Image


The case is very clear sxb.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Thanato » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:17 am

Interesting. Very nice.
It seems that they are two different clans, thanks for that info. I was in the assumption they were the same. Looks like I need to go back and read the book again

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Thanato » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:30 am

The tribe that I'm speaking about is this one:

Image

I.M Lewis says they are Habr Makadur, Samaroon. Which makes sense considering the geography.

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby Thanato » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:32 am

The Gadabursi were the tribe that lived near Harar, so that is my geographical argument:

Image
First footsteps in East Africa, by Richard Burton 1800's

Image
Scramble for the Horn of Africa 1827-1977

SInce we were molesting anyone who comes to Harar according to the British, we were probably the same people who refused to pay tax to the Imam and resorted to banditry in the Futuh. Makes sense. :oops:

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Re: The tragedy of Mandaluug Dir and their dispersion

Postby TopMon » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:39 am

Interesting. Very nice.
It seems that they are two different clans, thanks for that info. I was in the assumption they were the same. Looks like I need to go back and read the book again
Maraan foqol maraan.You get schooled in every topic it seems....is low iq a garacbursi trait?


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