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Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen property

Dadka ku dhaqan ama ka imaaday gobolkan

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Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen property

Postby greenday » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:43 am

In the 1950s the landowning group began a systematic land-grabbing campaign designed to create banana plantations and other irrigated farms. But the biggest land grab was perpetrated in the 1980s by those closely associated with the Siad Barre regime. Sometimes the land was not even farmed, the title being used as collateral for obtaining loans from aid donors—which were then used for trade or consumption. The former farmers were reduced to landless laborers.
http://bostonreview.net/BR28.6/dewaal.html
Land ownership issues and problems of access to natural resources have been aggravated by changes that began with colonization. Somalia’s ability to feed itself has declined over the past four decades. In some cases this has been due to changes in traditional access to land for pasture or agricultural production. Somalia has a fairly unstable environment prone to periodic crop failures due to prolonged drought, floods, pest infestation, and outbreak of livestock disease. Nomadic pastoralists and small-scale farmers have developed a range of coping mechanisms for this. Farmers employ a variety of cropping systems, which tend to ensure a harvest even in cases of flood or drought. Pastoralists adjust the size of the range (not herd size) by moving their herds to new pastures, and varying the composition of the herd to be able to exploit as much vegetation as possible. Pastoral lands have always been a common good, with ownership residing with the clan, and not individuals. Land conflicts in pastoral areas are usually resolved between clans.
Agricultural land has traditionally been allocated to households by village elders. Although technically not "owned", this land is passed from one generation to the next, and could be rented or sold. Land ownership patterns and practices have changed dramatically since the 1970s. Much of this results from western ideas involving private ownership of land, and its monetary value. A modern land tenure law was passed during the Siyad Barre period, decreeing that land title had to be acquired from the State (which "owned" all the land), in order to claim usufruct rights. At the same time, riverine farmland which had been held by Bantu and other farming communities for over a century became extremely valuable, as a result of major irrigation projects and a revival of the banana export business in the 1980’s. This led to an epidemic of ‘land-grabbing’ by civil servants and other well-connected individuals who were able to register large tracts in their names, even though the land had been historically farmed by villages. Few smallholders could afford to register their land, and even if they could afford the trips to Mogadishu, and the necessary bribes, they often discovered that more powerful individuals could gain title to the same land, and then pay the police to back up their claims. At the same time, the state was expropriating large areas of prime riverine land from farming communities, so as to establish internationally financed state farms. In the process, many smallholders went from being subsistence farmers to becoming landless, semi-landless sharecroppers, or rural wage laborers. In some cases, pastoral lands were enclosed, and access restricted which led to new confrontations between nomadic pastoralists and newly settled farmers (even of the same clan or lineage).
http://www.mbali.info/doc346.htm
Subsequently, the socialist government attempted to expropriate unclassified and communal land in declaring it ‘state land’. This was made possible through provisions of the 1975 land reform. In particular in the 1980s, elites connected to the government of Siyad Barre participated in land-grabbing,

http://udubland.net/wp-content/uploads/ ... bersik.pdf
Are people going to ask back for land that they didn’t own in the first place?
Now that people are aware of what happen during these times is it not ceeb to ask for a property obtained this way? Does having a document mean anything if you got your land during these times? Can you call someone a tuug who stole a stolen property :| After 91 lagarte how shall we classify lands stolen pr-civil war :?

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Happy Desperado » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:02 am

Very good points.

Land was grabbed during the MSB regime that is a fact. Somalia is going to deal with this and return land to their rightful owners. This is going to be very difficult and emotions will rise but it needs to be done.

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Osob101 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:12 am

Anyone who can produce legitimate papers prior to MSB or after him has a claim to their property. Lets not also forget people knew each other and who owned what land and who lived where so there is no possible someone can lie. As for the land grabbing my own family ayaa victim ahaa because some of the Land Booli Qaran was build on was forcibly taken from my abkow.

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby greenday » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:13 am

It seems like the people just accept the looting before during the 70s 80s, people talk about it but no action is being taken, someone needs to do something so that people move on!

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby greenday » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:14 am

Anyone who can produce legitimate papers prior to MSB or after him has a claim to their property. Lets not also forget people knew each other and who owned what land and who lived where so there is no possible someone can lie. As for the land grabbing my own family ayaa victim ahaa because some of the Land Booli Qaran was build on was forcibly taken from my abkow.
There was no such thing as "paper" before then marka mala so dhalaa :lol:

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Happy Desperado » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:17 am

Anyone who can produce legitimate papers prior to MSB or after him has a claim to their property. Lets not also forget people knew each other and who owned what land and who lived where so there is no possible someone can lie. As for the land grabbing my own family ayaa victim ahaa because some of the Land Booli Qaran was build on was forcibly taken from my abkow.
What counts as legitimate when you have a government that supports and takes part in land grabbing? That aside, as was mentioned most of these people were farmers who lived in these lands for centuries, there never were "papers" lol

Granted people did and still know one another. Most people know what land was bought and which land was taken by force. Somali ayaga ayaa is sheegi karaan.

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Osob101 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:27 am

Anyone who can produce legitimate papers prior to MSB or after him has a claim to their property. Lets not also forget people knew each other and who owned what land and who lived where so there is no possible someone can lie. As for the land grabbing my own family ayaa victim ahaa because some of the Land Booli Qaran was build on was forcibly taken from my abkow.
There was no such thing as "paper" before then marka mala so dhalaa :lol:
No sis there has been paper since the Italian colonials yimadeen xamar and that why i said people knew each other and qofkasta dhulkisa iyo wax oo lee yahaaye waa la yaqaan. Dadka Xamar jogaan 60sano mise 100 sano wa les yaqaaan, :lol:

Happy Desperado

Anaga waa have papers that we owned the land during even the Colonial time but still it was taken by the goverment and as i said waa les yaqaan. Gurigeena Wardhigley Villa Somalia aktiisa waaye and my Abkow waxoo jiraa 92 sanomarka waa les yaqaan sis.

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby greenday » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:31 am

Osob, does the person who got the house not have paper :lol: It will be youVSthem :|

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Osob101 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:40 am

Osob, does the person who got the house not have paper :lol: It will be youVSthem :|
dadka qaar lost their papers in the civil War but as long as they have evidence as in the form of former neighbors or family, they have every right to get their house back. like last year waxa jirta naag ceyr laba guri ku yalaa KM4 iska heesataye mid waxa ku sameesaye skool midna waaba iska degtaaye hahah gurigeena waxa iska leh nin Majerteen ah. Abahaaye ayaa gurigia ninka ka gataaye waana ka baxsanaaye because we bought the house from the legitimate owner even though he lost papers because waa les yaqaan sis. :lol:

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Bro » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:41 am

Waa lis yaqaana war soconayso ma'aha nor papers, most of the somalis oo qaxay during the civil war have either family members or qaraabo still living in those homes, if not their's no other method of legit proving your claims.

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby greenday » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:46 am

Osob, how come waa lisyaqane didnt work marki dulka inta dalaga qaado dadkale lasiinaye? these people became the legal owners of the land that did not belong to them in the first place :?

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Osob101 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:01 am

Osob, how come waa lisyaqane didnt work marki dulka inta dalaga qaado dadkale lasiinaye? these people became the legal owners of the land that did not belong to them in the first place :?
Thats why i said anyone who got their property legitimately and not handed to them by the state will get theirs back. Walaashis people like to big up the number the state gave for free and the number of homes people looted. the reality is some where in the middle.

Rabshoole

When the ICU came in paper they gave some people their homes back without paper because the neighbors vouched for it. Dadka badaana waaye ka dhumaan papers.

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby greenday » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:13 am

I do hope that everyone gets their stuff and anything bought with lacag xaran aka no hard earned cash should become "state property" in order to create a fair Somalia :lol:

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby Voltage » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:21 am

Greenday, let's get real. You don't have the malice of tribalism nor really interested by the negative ills of Somali tribalism to that extent to unilaterally play devil's advocate. I can almost swear you were just told to post that but in any case walaashiis I doubt anyone in Somalinet will have a bearing on the big elephant in the room when it comes to moving past the civil war---namely stolen properties.

p.s. I would advise you not to sell your principles for the cheapest hire.

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Re: Your suggestions on how to give/claim back stolen proper

Postby greenday » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:25 am

Come on voltage, we always talk about stolen properties after the war, why cant we talk about the pre war ones for a change, both happened and since peace is near will have to deal with this :|


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