again - WTH is there for sharif to be "president" of?

[Murax]

war hus waxyaho diaperka xiran

[ModerateMuslim]

war hus waxyaho diaperka xiran

did they also teach to laugh at lame and random insults?

what a useful sect that you're in.

[Salahuddiin]

[quote="Murax"]
As for the issue, what people like this Guy always quote is the Ayah in the Quran that says "Whosover does not rule by what Allah prescribed Has disbelieved". However the Ulema have explained this as having two cases:

"Hukmul A'aam" which is a general ruling. Which means that in general whoever does not rule by what Allah prescribed has disblieved.

Then thers "Hukmul Khass" which means specific ruling, which our Sheikh Somali Star just gave with Sheikh Shareef. Assuming Sh Shareef doesn't rule by the Shariah the Ulema would investigate [i]Why[/i] He's not ruling by the Shareeah. If He says He's not because He really believes in His heart that Western style democracy is better than the Shareeah of Allah then He is a Kaffir point blank. However if He's doing it out of fear, greed, etc. (99% of Muslim rulers) then He's not a disbliever but has made a Major sin.

And all in all Takfir is FOR THE SCHOLARS, not laymen. There the only ones that are allowed to make rulings of apostasy as they have the knowledge and rank to do so. The scholars are the leaders of the Ummah. Also be careful of quoting ayahs straight from the Quran and taking them literely. Theres Tafsir, explanation, hukm etc. that the Scholars derive from it. Get in the habit of finding the knowledgable people and asking them for explanations on things.[/quote]

Murax,

So you know the difference between takfiirul mutlaq and takfiirul mucayin (general/specific). So I guess you also know the conditions for takfiirul mucayin. So could you point out which one of them can't be applied for unspecified president hebel who does kufr. Is he sleeping, forced, crazy, ignorant etc etc???? That's just ridiculous bro. Ignorant layman from baadiyo and leader are not the same.

Wooow, you can do kufr if just in your heart you don't believe in it? Bro, that's nothing but irjaa'. Only way knowledgeable man can do kufr intentionally if he's forced, and then there's condition that his heart is relaxed with iman. And threat of force is something major, like he will be killed or will lose his limbs etc. And this doesn't apply just for someone having general fear that he'll be unsuccessfull or his power is taken away.

Could you please point out some scholars of the past who also held this same opinion? Strangely this became widespread only within few decades and before that it was maybe one word once in a while against the great majority.... Wonder why?

And I agree that takfiir is not for anyone, but I disagree that it's only for scholars. Why there's kitaabu riddah in fiqh books like there's kitaabu salaat or kitaabu tahaara? Because it's part of fiqh and shows the limits of this religion. Now what is the problem of taalibul cilm pointing out kufr for someone who does it clearly? Opposite in the clear cases would be the real problem.
And that said, takfiir is a major issue not to be taken too lightly. But still it's a part of the diin, a part that so called salafis want to throw away along with jihad and al wala wal bara.

[Salahuddiin]

Question: how do you put quote in a box? When I quote someone it just comes as a normal text between "".

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

As for the issue, what people like this Guy always quote is the Ayah in the Quran that says "Whosover does not rule by what Allah prescribed Has disbelieved". However the Ulema have explained this as having two cases:

"Hukmul A'aam" which is a general ruling. Which means that in general whoever does not rule by what Allah prescribed has disblieved.

Then thers "Hukmul Khass" which means specific ruling, which our Sheikh Somali Star just gave with Sheikh Shareef. Assuming Sh Shareef doesn't rule by the Shariah the Ulema would investigate Why He's not ruling by the Shareeah. If He says He's not because He really believes in His heart that Western style democracy is better than the Shareeah of Allah then He is a Kaffir point blank. However if He's doing it out of fear, greed, etc. (99% of Muslim rulers) then He's not a disbliever but has made a Major sin.


And all in all Takfir is FOR THE SCHOLARS, not laymen. There the only ones that are allowed to make rulings of apostasy as they have the knowledge and rank to do so. The scholars are the leaders of the Ummah. Also be careful of quoting ayahs straight from the Quran and taking them literely. Theres Tafsir, explanation, hukm etc. that the Scholars derive from it. Get in the habit of finding the knowledgable people and asking them for explanations on things.


As for not ruling by the Shariah it is a very serious issue and cannot be taken lightly. If the Doctor gives You medicine and tells You take one tablet in the Morning and one in the Afternoon You'll take it exactly as He said. In our case Allah swt gave us a kitaab and a Rasul and by not applying it exactly as We should We're only hurting ourselves. Allah swt says that not ruling by the Quran will cause corruption in the Earth, and that is a big reason Why We're in this mess as an Ummah. Allah knows best.

Spot on, on all accounts

Salahuddiin, Murax is 100% on point when he said an act of kufr does not necessarily make one kafir. For example, 2 rulers can both rule by means other than Shariicada and 1 of them can remain Muslim while the other apostated because of it...there's no doubt it's an act of kufr to make xalaal what Allah SWT has made xaraam, lakiin if u did it out of desires, then it's just an act of kufr by a believer. Actually believing the law u prescribe is better than Allah SWT's Laws is another story and takes u out of the folds of Islam altogether.

As for the quoting question, uncheck the box under ur test that says "Disable BBCode" bro.

[Addoow]

oh...look how cute hyper is...

[Salahuddiin]

Salahuddiin, Murax is 100% on point when he said an act of kufr does not necessarily make one kafir. For example, 2 rulers can both rule by means other than Shariicada and 1 of them can remain Muslim while the other apostated because of it...there's no doubt it's an act of kufr to make xalaal what Allah SWT has made xaraam, lakiin if u did it out of desires, then it's just an act of kufr by a believer. Actually believing the law u prescribe is better than Allah SWT's Laws is another story and takes u out of the folds of Islam altogether.

As for the quoting question, uncheck the box under ur test that says "Disable BBCode" bro.

Thanks for the tip bro. If your quote is now in the box it worked.

There are two ways to rule with other than Allah has revealed:

First type is someone who GENERALLY rules with sharica but sometimes in individual cases rules with something else because of some duniya benefit (like his relative is accused, or he is bribed etc) and he knows that law of Allah is the only law. Now this is what is meant by so called “lesser kufr.”

Second type is someone who REPLACES law of Allah with man-made law and makes others obey them. Now he has no excuse and it doesn’t matter how he feels about in his heart. This is kufr akbar and riddah from religion.

Shaikh Muhammad Ibrahiim, former mufti in Saudi-Arabia and teacher of Ibn Baaz said:
“As for that which is described as kufr doona kufr, it is when he refers the dispute to other than the Book of Allah knowing that he is disobeying Allah by doing so, and that the ruling of Allah is the truth, and He does it once. Such a person would not be committing major infidelity. As for those who legislate laws and make others obey them, this constitutes kufr, even if they claim that they made a mistake, and that the laws of Allah are more just; such is considered as the kufr which entails riddah (i.e. kufrul-akbar).” (Al-Fataawa, Vol. 12/280.)

Saying that iman is only in the heart is saying of murji’a, walaal. Actions are part of iman.

Now let’s say there’s a man who believes in his heart in tawhiid but he goes daily to hindu temple and worships and prostrates to their idols because he wants to please hindus and wants them to give him money.

Then another example is ruler who knows that Allah is the only lawgiver and no one else has this right but Allah, but still he replaces sharica with man-made law, so he gave this attribute of Allah to a man and took him as a god (just like Christians took their priests as gods by following them when they changed haraam to halaal and vice versa.) And this ruler doesn’t do this except to please kuffaar and get their money and support.

Now what is the difference between these two men?

The things that prevent takfiirul mucayin (specific) are ignorance, ta’wiil (permissible interpretation, not applied in everything and until he is corrected), being out of one’s mind (sleeping, crazy etc) or doing something unintentionally without meaning it, or being forced (real threat to die, tortured etc)

And still I emphasize that individual takfiir is to be left for learned people with sufficient knowledge about iman and kufr and it’s not for everyone.

[RebelLion]

Shieck Sharif's priority should be to get the south stable, that is an accomplishment on it's own and he's the right man who can do it mainly of his qabil since they are majority in banadir and because he is a moderate muslim.

The rest of the peaceful regions will no doubt willingly join a peaceful south somalia.

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

Salahuddiin, Murax is 100% on point when he said an act of kufr does not necessarily make one kafir. For example, 2 rulers can both rule by means other than Shariicada and 1 of them can remain Muslim while the other apostated because of it...there's no doubt it's an act of kufr to make xalaal what Allah SWT has made xaraam, lakiin if u did it out of desires, then it's just an act of kufr by a believer. Actually believing the law u prescribe is better than Allah SWT's Laws is another story and takes u out of the folds of Islam altogether.

As for the quoting question, uncheck the box under ur test that says "Disable BBCode" bro.

Thanks for the tip bro. If your quote is now in the box it worked.

There are two ways to rule with other than Allah has revealed:

First type is someone who GENERALLY rules with sharica but sometimes in individual cases rules with something else because of some duniya benefit (like his relative is accused, or he is bribed etc) and he knows that law of Allah is the only law. Now this is what is meant by so called “lesser kufr.”

Second type is someone who REPLACES law of Allah with man-made law and makes others obey them. Now he has no excuse and it doesn’t matter how he feels about in his heart. This is kufr akbar and riddah from religion.

Shaikh Muhammad Ibrahiim, former mufti in Saudi-Arabia and teacher of Ibn Baaz said:
“As for that which is described as kufr doona kufr, it is when he refers the dispute to other than the Book of Allah knowing that he is disobeying Allah by doing so, and that the ruling of Allah is the truth, and He does it once. Such a person would not be committing major infidelity. As for those who legislate laws and make others obey them, this constitutes kufr, even if they claim that they made a mistake, and that the laws of Allah are more just; such is considered as the kufr which entails riddah (i.e. kufrul-akbar).” (Al-Fataawa, Vol. 12/280.)

Saying that iman is only in the heart is saying of murji’a, walaal. Actions are part of iman.

Now let’s say there’s a man who believes in his heart in tawhiid but he goes daily to hindu temple and worships and prostrates to their idols because he wants to please hindus and wants them to give him money.

Then another example is ruler who knows that Allah is the only lawgiver and no one else has this right but Allah, but still he replaces sharica with man-made law, so he gave this attribute of Allah to a man and took him as a god (just like Christians took their priests as gods by following them when they changed haraam to halaal and vice versa.) And this ruler doesn’t do this except to please kuffaar and get their money and support.

Now what is the difference between these two men?

The things that prevent takfiirul mucayin (specific) are ignorance, ta’wiil (permissible interpretation, not applied in everything and until he is corrected), being out of one’s mind (sleeping, crazy etc) or doing something unintentionally without meaning it, or being forced (real threat to die, tortured etc)

And still I emphasize that individual takfiir is to be left for learned people with sufficient knowledge about iman and kufr and it’s not for everyone.

No problem for the help sxb

Personally, I understood that it's Kufr Kabaa'ir, which takes u outta Islam, only if u believe ur laws are better than Allah's SWT...but u very well could be right and I could be wrong.

I agree...takfir is best left to qualified scholars because they go through an entire process of sitting with u and understanding why u believe what u believe before labeling u.