Isaaq is a confederation of tribes, not of one descent

[AwdalPrince]

Recently Sahan Galbeed took a DNA test and I was reading his thread, he mentioned he got E1b1b and a specific subclade that makes him related to people from the Balkans/Greece etc. Then we have other Habar Yunis individuals who possess Haplogroup T which is of Middle Eastern origin. How can we reconcile the two very different haplogroups found in the same tribal family? My only assertion is that descent from the Banu Hashim is completely ruled out, simply because not one Isaaq member was confirmed to possess haplogroup J1 or J2 (Adnanite Arab subclade at an accuracy of over 80%).

The only reasonable explanation is that Isaaq is a confederacy of tribes of varying origins that united for a common interest or goal.

Discuss.

[ZubeirAwal]

Could be , Could be, what about Isaaq's who count their names to their ancestor?

[AwdalPrince]

Could be , Could be, what about Isaaq's who count their names to their ancestor?

That's what a confederation is in essence. When you join a family unit, clan or tribe they adopt you as one of their own. Hence you take the name of your sponsor. This is very well documented even in Somali history.

[ZubeirAwal]

Could be , Could be, what about Isaaq's who count their names to their ancestor?

That's what a confederation is in essence. When you join a family unit, clan or tribe they adopt you as one of their own. Hence you take the name of your sponsor. This is very well documented even in Somali history.

I know, but someone like myself whom i didn't take a test, i count 8 names to the well known gadiid tribe of HA, and of those 8 people who probably the 8th lived 500 years ago obviously would've been a pure member of the tribe, and one thing also, you can't just point a finger at someone and say he was adopted into the tribe?

[Advo]

I am not sure about the confederation part but all Somalis are freakishly related, from the one who think they are superior to the people of madhibaan who so many insult share a common lineage, that means overwhelmingly majority of the Somali population from hawiye, issaq, darood, dir etc share a common paternal male lineage. This arab fairytale sh!t was made up by our ancestors who just wanted to be related to our beloved Prophet, nothing more or less.

[AwdalPrince]

I know, but someone like myself whom i didn't take a test, i count 8 names to the well known gadiid tribe of HA, and of those 8 people who probably the 8th lived 500 years ago obviously would've been a pure member of the tribe, and one thing also, you can't just point a finger at someone and say he was adopted into the tribe?

Dude it's not as easy as you say. I'm not saying that you do not count up to HA or Reer Gadiid. The evidence that I'm getting this information from is the DNA tests. Dude I wouldn't be surprised if my own clan is a claimant and we really are Afar or something else. I'm just pointing out that the DNA from Sahan (HA) and other HY guys are different and they can't be from one origin.

[AwdalPrince]

I am not sure about the confederation part but all Somalis are freakishly related, from the one who think they are superior to the people of madhibaan who so many insult share a common lineage, that means overwhelmingly majority of the Somali population from hawiye, issaq, darood, dir etc share a common paternal male lineage. This arab fairytale sh!t was made up by our ancestors who just wanted to be related to our beloved Prophet, nothing more or less.

And even worse we Somalis get easily offended when someone tells us we aint related to Arabs. It's silly. I agree

[ZubeirAwal]

AwdalPrince?, are you trying to say i ain't of arab descent because my subclan is Abdulrahman Al-Awaliya?

[gurey25]

first of all its confusing the people who call themselves Sharifs trace their lineage from both matrilineal and patrilineal lines this is why DNA analysis shows a large variety of YDNA haplogroups.
Allot of people who claim shariif title thus range from J1,J2 to even E1b1b1b1 the last example is the Alqasimi of Ras Alkhaima and Sharjah in the UAE.
They are E1b1b1b1 just like somalis they claim to be ashraaf and they are beyond doubt arabs.
infact e1b1b1b1 is present in more than 1/4 of the arab population.

So until the exact lineage of the Prophet is finished we cannot rule out anyone, its currently underway.

and there is a good explanation of the variety of YDNA in the same clan.
Adoption of people into clans is a old arab tradition and its been going on for millenia, so it is concievable that within the banu hashim there would be more than one line of YDNA in the first place.

The practice of adoption was also widespread early on in somali clans and there is the phenomena of religous lineage.
Whenever there is a great teacher or imaam that gathers around him allot of followers, over the years the people of different families will come together as descendants of the shiekh
and along with his real descendants become one clan.

Its happened all over North Africa, arabia and central asia and it definatley happened in somalia.
its actually very common.

So realistically if we look at isaaq as a clan it may likely that there will be real decendents and also decedents of his followers.
and maybe even decedents of shiekh isxaaqs relative and compatriot Shiekh Yusuf al Kownien.

[Khalid Ali]

Awdal prince who told you j1 is the indisputable haplagroup for the hashimites the iranian hussenys carry the t1 haplagroup the hashimite in jordan carry the j1 haplagroup even j1 is not originally an arab haplagroup and the Moroccan arabs including the hassani sharifs carry the E1c with a different marker awdal prince when we are talking about haplagroups its not something recent its more about 3000 bc one ancestor or more.

As for somalis claiming arabs I don't think they really claim arabs but they say one of their ancestors came from arabia which is not hard to believe since arabs had established sultanates in somaliland and somalia and ethiopia the last millennium or so even though the term arab is a wide term. Somalis are proud of their heritage and language but origins are facts and its not what we like or prefer or love who do we hate. The lineage of my tribe origin is a well known fact

[Advo]

Wow just wow....I guess people will do anything to believe bullsh!t even if it means manipulating scientific facts. It's cool though to each his own,.

[ZubeirAwal]

Wow just wow....I guess people will do anything to believe bullsh!t even if it means manipulating scientific facts. It's cool though to each his own,.

Idc man, if my ancestors carried this tradition, i'll be a disgrace to drop it now.

[Khalid Ali]

But I don't think there are clans incorporated with in the isxaaq tribal family isaaq is the youngest tribe its subclans are known 500 years ago they were around 20000 people and keep in mind sheikh isxaaq lived in the mid late 11 century. Even if they were clans who are not isxaaq now and days part of isxaaq they are less than 2 percent.

[gurey25]

yes khalid but there always the possibility you should prepare for it.
if bani hashim the prophets own clan During and Before his lifetime was not of the same lineage and had allot of adoptions
it can happen to anyone , even a clan as young as ours.

we are the youngest clan amongst all somalis, only shiekhal are younger

[ZubeirAwal]

Inshallah i'm a direct descendent, if not it won't matter, still one family