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http://www.abtirsi.com/forum/viewtopic. ... t=842#p983

They are Ogaden, nowadays they live near Ras Kamboni, as far from Zeila as you can get

who are Ogaden the Walashama?? is this your latest Daarood propaganda , because if its you are breaking the record here.

niyo maa hurudaa ?

http://hornhistory.blogspot.com.au/2010 ... 1.html?m=1

Reer Caynanshe aren't Muuse Carre.

http://www.abtirsi.com/forum/viewtopic. ... t=842#p983

They are Ogaden, nowadays they live near Ras Kamboni, as far from Zeila as you can get

The Walashma were not Ogaden, there is still a debate if they were even full Somali.

http://www.abtirsi.com/forum/viewtopic. ... t=842#p983

They are Ogaden, nowadays they live near Ras Kamboni, as far from Zeila as you can get

walashma are not ogadeen, did you even see the source i sent to your PM

James Dahl you really do have a darood bias verified now.

Walashma were not Darood or evern Ogadeen , I have no idea why online people claim they are, it is unheard of on the ground in Galbeed

Proof for those against Somalili Oral Tradition and future naysayers
from the Harari historian (remember the great library of harar contains fascinating somali history and was the second Capital of the Awdal EmPIRE )
Shiekh Abibakr Ba Alawi ashanbali , he states the history of the land,
the walashma dynasty were "native" to the land ( Dir are the first "somalis" as you all know)
secondly they claim to be descendent of Yusuf Al Kownayn, a Wardiiq (Dir) man

We over threw the arabs in shoa and ruled it




Information from this PDF
written for the Service d'Information of Djibouti

http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream ... 20horn.pdf
the wardiiqs ( some call us walashama i guess) still exist and live all over Somalia

James Dahl where is your source that indicated they were Ogadeen? Link? I would like to read it

Somali oral tradition states the walashma were native and this backs it up James Dahl come in

who are Ogaden the Walashama?? is this your latest Daarood propaganda , because if its you are breaking the record here.

His abtirsi matches that which Cerulli wrote down.

Umar, son of Dunyahuz, son of Ahmed, son of Muhammed, son of Hamid, son of Yusuf, son of Barkanti.

Cerulli assumed Yusuf ibn Barkanti was Yusuf Barkhadle (it's not, Barkhadle was his nickname not his father's name) but this is incorrect.

Barkanti is a small branch of Sacad Muddan Muqabul it's still around.

can you show us the cerulli source james?

Sure why not, let's see if I can find it online

excellent and did you check out the source I posted? Look at source 3 at the bottom of the page, more reliable then "Cerulli" which you said earlier was unreliabe, especailly for yusuf al kownayns abtirsi .

Cerulli was an italian right, did he visit zeila? usually Italians were stationed in the south correct.

Alright the original document is "Documenti arabi per la storia dell' Etiopia", E. Cerulli 1931 The title just means "Arabic Documents of the history of Ethiopia"

Most of I.M. Lewis' work was just translating Cerulli's books into English and adding his own theories.

I assume the original document itself is still around, the Arabic documents he translated was in Harar, which is a destination anyone interested in the islamic history of the Horn should go first really. I have sadly never seen the original, someone should see if it still exists.

I'll see if I can find a digital copy to show.

Alright the original document is "Documenti arabi per la storia dell' Etiopia", E. Cerulli 1931 The title just means "Arabic Documents of the history of Ethiopia"

Most of I.M. Lewis' work was just translating Cerulli's books into English and adding his own theories.

I assume the original document itself is still around, the Arabic documents he translated was in Harar, which is a destination anyone interested in the islamic history of the Horn should go first really. I have sadly never seen the original, someone should see if it still exists.

I'll see if I can find a digital copy to show.

Did you go to harar to get the information to put on your site? Or did your assumptions do that for you. How did you add that material to your site if you never read or even own that certain book.
So you put the walashma dynasty as ogadeen on your site due to an assumption....okay Well i provided facts can you add that or not?
Cerulli was ITALIAN when did he go to zaylac if the italians colonies were in the south?
can you indicate this on your site as i requested you indicate the yusuf al kownayn stuff as well, or do i have to make an account there?

Where did you get his abtirsi from ( yusuf al kownayn) how can you add names based on assumptions, where are you getting them from, that's my question

and all the answers i am getting is "assumptions"?

Did you read the source yet I posted in this thread, that's verified.

James is a fraud rural man was right, James answer the question

http://www.abtirsi.com/forum/viewtopic. ... t=842#p983

They are Ogaden, nowadays they live near Ras Kamboni, as far from Zeila as you can get

You fool James! Someone just made up an abritsi and you believed it! Walashama were never ogadeen! Infact during those days there were no ogadeen even in jig jiga!!! James you have been swindled by a random user since 2009 , this is unreal

It looks as though lots of posts while I was asleep

JuliusCaesar you have so far in this thread attacked everyone who has posted in it, I am the only person who is bothering to reply to you at this point, and I am not sure why I should bother, but I did say I would find an online source for my statements earlier and so I will. Perhaps you should change your attitude about debate other than ad hominem attacks and attacking everyone else to make up for your own weak arguments, you have not brought much to this discussion other than insisting I am wrong.

I found two more citations of Cerulli's genealogy last night. One is via Lewis' copy (which conflates him with Yusuf al-Kawnayn), and another citing the Harari manuscript directly.

Here is Cerulli via Lewis:


As it is citing from Lewis (the cerulli genealogy stops at Barkhadle) the genealogy continues on with Yusuf al-Kawnayn's Hasani nisba, which is due to this Yusuf ibn Barkante being confused with Yusuf aw-Barkhadle (the Walashma genealogy does not say Yusuf aw-Barkhadle, it says Yusuf ibn Barkante, it's not the same guy!)

The second citation does not cite Lewis or Cerulli (so no conflation of Barkhadle) and preserves the original spelling.
http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream ... 20horn.pdf (page 2, footnotes)

Umar bin Dunyahur bin Hamud bin Mohamed bin Sheikh Yusuf, (bin) Barkatle (the Harari manuscript also tries to claim Sheikh Barkhadle as the Walashma ancestor, but in all the traditional histories Sheikh Barkhadle had no sons).

As an additional tidbit, Ibn Taghribirdi refers to the dynasty as being founded by Umar Walasma al-Jaberti al-Hanafi.

There is not a shred of evidence for either the Walashma or Yusuf aw-Barkhadle being Dir. I am not opposed to the idea but there just isn't any evidence. Where does it say in the evidence you have posted that either are Dir?

I imagine I will be the target of your verbal abuse in the next few posts.