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Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:15 pm
by Xildiiid
Perfect Order,

You're sure it wasn't a state policy?
A confidential report from General Morgan to President Barre leaked to the international press in February 1987 detalied the policies that Morgan had been implementing to ''liquadate'' what he referred to as the ''Isaak problem'' and which he was recommending to the president. The measures spelled out in the letter included confiscating the property of Isaaks and redistributing their wealth; suspending their business licences; freezing the bank accounts of Isaak businessmen and destroying their businesses by giving opportunities to non-Isaaks; purging Isaaks from all sensitive government positions; accelerating the enrollment of the children of the refugees into local schools in order to ensure a ''balance''; relocating villages, destroying water reservoirs and resettling Ethiopian refugees on Isaak territory.
HRW - A government at war with its people.

I can give you descriptive quotes about how the regime was targetting specific clans in order to alter demographics or totally change them. The regime used a variety of methods, from extrajudicial killings, to institutionalized discrimination, sanctions on businesses etc.

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:20 pm
by Xildiiid
Son of Nomad,

Afweyne's regime was responsible for the atrocities committed in SL. The extrajudicial killings, the psychological intimidation, the economic policy with the aim of destroying Isaaq wealth, the use of landmines, the war against the nomads, the destruction of Isaaq society, it all started in 1981. The SNM was created in 1981 as a result of Afweyne's policies.

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Using military strikes against civilian targets
The Somali military used artillery and aerial bombardment in heavily populated areas in order to retake Burao and Hargeisa, although there were no SNM combatants there.
U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), SOMALIA: Observations Regarding the Northern Conflict and Resulting Conditions.

-Under the Geneva convention these types of attacks are indiscriminate and Afweyne, under international law, was obliged to protect civilian lives but he didn't because his goal was to wipe out Isaaq civilians not save them as you can see in the quotation above.

-Here we got another quotation that describes how Afweyne's regime evacuated non Isaaq civilians in order to maximize the death and destruction.
The government used loudspeakers to sort the civilians out into Darood and Isaak. They would shout, ''Who's is from Galkayo? Mogadishu? Las Anod, Garoe?''[Non-Isaak territory]. They appealed to the non-Isaaks to leave so they could burn the town and all those who remained behind. Most of the people from these towns left; the government provided them with transportation.
Human Right Watch - A government at war with its own people.

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Economic punishment and government policies.

-The accounts of an Isaaq businesswoman interviewed by the HRW, who was the manager of Oriental Hotel in Hargeisa and her encounter with Afweyne Barre in Mogadishu after being detained by the NSS simply because her late father's business was profitable.
Eventually, I was taken to see the President. The President started talking politics straight away. He launched into an attack against Isaaks and against me. He had no kind words to say in spite of our ordeal. He commented, ''What you Isaaks deserve is not be detained but shot on the spot after you commit such offenses''. I asked him, ''what have we done?'' I said I was not aware of aything illegal that I had done. He emphasized, again and again, the ''arrogance'' of the Isaaks.
- The quote above reminds me of that humiliation study posted by a former snetter that describes how Afweyne, the former Italian Zaptie not even a real military soldier, felt humiliated at the hands of Isaaq generals trained at the Royal Military Academy of Sandhurst in his early days, which lead to his pathologic hatred for the Isaaq clan. Even though one can say that all Darood suffer from pathologic hatred because of their inferiority complex nonetheless..
Isaak businessmen, both in the north and in the south, suffered from discriminatory practices. Lines of credit at state banks were severely restricted, which was a major blow to businessmen as there are no private banks in Somalia. No Isaak could participate on equal footing in government tenders. Now could Isaak businessmen obtain loans from banks, unless this was facilitated by a non-Isaak crony of the authority.
Isaaks in Mogadishu were also at a severe disadvantage. She describe the example of Hashi Afboor, who tried to obtain money from his bank account in Mogadishu in 1986. He was told he could withdraw the amount he requested on condition that he gave four non-Isaak men the money with which to start business.
In the marketplace in Hargeisa, women who had sewing machines had to pay 10 shillings a day and 3,000 shilling every six months. Even women selling milk did not escape. They paid 10 shillings for the spot on the ground that each container occupied and 3,000 shillings every six months. Of course, all these regulation affected principally the Isaaks. When the odd non-Isaak was affected, once it was established that they were not Isaaks, he or she would be compensated.
HRW - A government at war with its own people.

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The regime's policies
A confidential report from General Morgan to President Barre leaked to the international press in February 1987 detalied the policies that Morgan had been implementing to ''liquadate'' what he referred to as the ''Isaak problem'' and which he was recommending to the president. Te measures spelled out in the letter included confiscating the property of Isaaks and redistributing their wealth; suspending their business licences; freezing the bank accounts of Isaak businessmen and destroying their businesses by giving opportunities to non-Isaaks; purging Isaaks from all sensitive government positions; accelerating the enrollment of the children of the refugees into local schools in order to ensure a ''balance''; relocating villages, destroying water reservoirs and resettling Ethiopian refugees on Isaak territory.
The government had at its disposal, a formidable array of extra-legal sanctions that it used to wage a more subtle kind of political warfare. A system known as ''Isaak Extermination'' (''Dabar Goynta Isaaka'') was put into effect.
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The war against Isaaq nomads
Dabar Goynta Isaaka (''The Isaak Exterminators''), a well-mechanized section of the army which consisted entirely of non Isaaks, widely regarded as one of the most abusive forces engaged in counter-insurgency activities, was responsible for ''dealing'' with the nomads. They, and other branches of the military terrorized the countryside.
In late June or early July 1987, the governor of Las Anod was killed by the SNM. The military demanded that Isaaks civilians living in the region pay 120 camels ''in exchange'', although they had nothing to do with the killing.
Whenever the military suffered a defeat in an encounter with the SNM, they killed some nomads in the area. Then they brought their dead bodies to towns, saying, ''We have killed some Ethiopians - come and see for yourselves''
When confronted by the military, nomads would be extravagantly generous, hoping that would appease their ''guests'' and they would be left in peace. At the end of 1987, some soldiers visited Aw Harrir Nur. He was very hospitable. They repaid him by raping his daughter and ill treating his wife. When he protested, they beat him.
In January 1989, Community Aid Abroad, an Australian agency operating in the Sanaag region reported that:
Widespread massacre occured after 2 soldiers were blown up with a landmine in Elafweyn District. In reprisal the military commander of Sanaag ordered the deaths of 200 nomands. One hundred and three men, women and children were slaughtered the following day.
Nomads arrested in the countryside were brought to Hargeisa to be executed. These poor people would be forced to wear whar the government described as ''SNM uniforms'' and were paraded in the National Theater.
In August 1985, an army truck was blown up on a two mile feeder road that connected the main asphalt road to the military barracks near Arabsiyo. The driver was killed. The army responded with massive retaliation against the residents living within 30 kilometers of the area; many residents were shot, livestock confiscated and many huts butned.
After spending so much money in constructing reservoirs, the owners were often not even allowed to drink from them, never mind their animals. If there were soldiers living in the aream the reservoirs became theirs
HRW - A government at war with its own people.

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Rape as weapon of war,
Rape by soldiers became common. It was particularly frequent in the countryside. Those who could send a daughter out of the country did so.
Often, when they came to search houses, they raped any attractive woman they saw, saying, ''Instead of giving birth to a ''qurmis'', I will force her to have a pro-government bastard. It's better than what they give birth to anyway''. Isaak men would constantly be told, ''Go and get those prostitutes of yours'' - meaning their sisters and daughters.
They would kick the man out of the house and soldiers forced him to remain outside while the women were raped by other soldiers. Just to humiliate the men, they did no even spare the old women. Sometimes women were gang-raped. This is really what made the SNM expand. So many storekeepers, traders and tea shop owners just locked up and left to join the SNM, feeling that they couldn't just sit around watching this happen to their wives daughters, sisters and the relatives of their friends and neighbors.
HRW - A government at war with its own people.

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Destroying the social fabric and basic elements of the society,
It got to a point that the people of the region became invisible, no matter what their qualifications or qualities. They were worse off than foreigners; they became a people with no rights in their own country. Every group was encouraged to watch over the others, as the only way to protect themselves. It destroyed community life. Neighbors became suspicious of each other.
Education deteriorated year after year. After only two hours at schools, the teachers would leave. Those were the conscientious ones. The other simply never turned up. The students could see that both the living confitions and the political situation were getting worse every year. Soldiers came to the schools with the their tanks and fired into the air. Students ran and then they would be arrested and beaten. Those who really could not tolerate the situation left to join the SNM
HRW - A government at war with its own people.

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SNM opposing revenge killings despite the horrific actions of neighboring clans.
Isaaq refugees we interviewed expressed anger at the stiff warnings they received from the SNM not to take revenge against civilian non-combatants who were not involved in the war. When non-Isaak civilians were armed, the SNM regarded them as an integral part of the government's fighting forces, and as such, legitimate targets to attack.
HRW - A government at war with its own people.

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Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:24 pm
by luis1
Son of a Nomad:
Siad barres own people went against him after the ogaden war becuz they were poluted by foreigners
The Somali people abandoned Siad Barre regime, because he failed to achieve Greater Somalia dream and after Ogaden War he killed several innocent Issaq generals.

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:28 pm
by Xildiiid
^
We took a lion's share in that war. Isaaq is the only clan to have 3 different colonels to liberate 3 crucial districts, not to mention the countless Isaaq colonels and officers that fought in that war including two of my paternal uncles.

Afweyne's regime deliberately killed Isaaq pilots, military & police officers that hadn't defected to the SNM in the 80's. Their crimes being their clan affiliation.

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:34 pm
by luis1
Everybody knows Siad Barre brought suffering and death to Issaq people,he destroyed Hargueisa and many other cities in Somaliland. The Somali Air Force (a few planes piloted by mercenaries) killed a lot of innocent people in 1988, these pilots following Siad barre orders murdered thousands of women and children in 1988.

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 5:55 pm
by SonofANomad
skywalker25

Human rights watch statement! shall i qouted since you value it alot!
The Issaq-dominated Somali National Movement (SNM) was formed in 1981 and became one of the most formidable armed groups to challenge the Siad Barre government’s power. The government fought back by waging war on the entire Issaq clan. Government intelligence services arbitrarily detained, tortured, or murdered hundreds of Issaq civilians suspected of supporting the rebel SNM from the early 1980s onward. Government forces poisoned wells and slaughtered the livestock rural Issaq depended on for their livelihoods. When the SNM captured parts of Hargeisa in 1988, the Somali government bombed the city with planes that took off from the town’s own airport and strafed columns of fleeing civilians. As Isaaq civilians fled, the government systematically repopulated their communities with civilians from other clans. The war claimed tens of thousands of civilian lives across Somaliland, drove at least a million people from their homes, and left the region devastated. By 1991 Hargeisa was little more than a bombed-out shell of the city it had been. The abuses of that period have been amply documented elsewhere, by Human Rights Watch, and by others.
So he was a tribalist because he went against a isaaqs Terrorist group? The same terrorist group that were working for ethiopia and killing bunch of gadabursi civilians.

Do you realize how many isaaqs existed as military leaders and in the govt?

Ur own president was the minister of commision in somalia and edna aden being the wife of a high ranking official!

lets see what Human right watch wrote about isaaq rebel group SNM

You isaaqs attacked killed ogaden refuuges
Image


You Isaaq SNM massacred many ciilivians and according to Human right watch the esitimate is around 50.000 to 60.000 which the SNM killed!

Image


Link: Human rights watch!
http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/ ... a_1990.pdf

infact

Somewhere in the video around 7 minutes or 8 minutes, you will see a Civilians, killed and being looted by the SNM(Isaaqs) somewhere in Northern Somalia. You’ll see a dead civilian (non-SNM) laying on the ground, shot dead, or worse, slaughtered.


MAjor War Crimes made by isaaq (SNM)

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:25 pm
by SonofANomad
Xildiid!

Isaaq (SNM) WAr crimes!

According to The center for justice and Acountabilitiy

The CJA!
The SNM’s inter-factional fighting caused many deaths in Northwest, the late Mohamed Ibrahim Egal, Abdi Rahman Ture etc were the lead characters talked about at the time; SNM’s violent suppression against some communities in the Awdal and Northern regions is still vivid in the memory of those who had witnessed it.
You ISaaqs killed 20 000 gadabursi in Awdal
04-02-1991 when Isaaq SNM militia and Mengistu’s troops attacked Borama with the intention of killing as many people as they possibly could in a matter of 24 hours. Within 16 hours the SNM militias with support from Mengistu’s troops killed and executed more than 800 innocent people; including women, children and older people in Borama town. SNM militias with support from Mengistu’s troops killed and executed more than 20,000 innocent people in Awdal region.
In 2009 a new era of terror began for the non-Isaq civilians especially Reer Nuur clan members-in Eastern Awdal, murder of innocent people sleeping peacefully in their own homes in Awdal Seemaal area on December 5, 2011; a horrific reminder of the slaughter of innocent travellers on the highway between Dilla and Gabiley on July 11, 2009.
Even video proof of ISaaq genocide killing spree on non-isaaqs


Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:49 pm
by Xildiiid
Lol, in your first post your own sources disprove the nonsense you're posting.

The first quote only states that SNM was among the forces that challenged Afweyne's regime. It does not state that it was founded solely to dismantle the regime.

The formation of the SNM
The formation of the SNM was the outcome of systematic discrimination and human rights abuses against members of the Isaaq clan, which predominates in northern Somalia, by the Siad Barre government.


Evil Days: Thirty Years of War and Famine in Ethiopia


The 50-60.000 deaths was a direct result of the regime's bombardments as your own quote states. :pac:

Your 3rd quote is ambiguous and illogical because it's impossible for Mengistu's troops to accompany the SNM in 1991 because Afweyne and Mengistu signed a peace treaty in 1988 that made sure the SNM couldn't stay in Ethiopia. On top of that, Mengistu was overthrown in 1991, so the Gudabiirsi propaganda that 20.000 of their clansmen were killed is ridiculous.

In 2009, there was no SNM because SNM ceased to exist in 1993 after the Borama conference. :umad:

The video you keep posting is part of Xildhibaan's (pro Kacaan Hawiye) propaganda. It's the Faqash's poor attempt to cover the crimes of his beloved regime by accusing the SNM of war crimes when it was Afweyne who indiscriminately bombed cities and towns.


Btw, you can read my earlier post and adress and disprove (if you can) the quotes from the HRW.

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:34 pm
by Rambie
SON,

You are a dumb nigga indeed!

This report is nothing but a summery, there is deatiled reports about the tribllist policies of his regime.
Even in this breif report, his regime was Identfied as MOD (Marehan, Ogaden and Dhulbahanti) that alone
blows your whole bubble.

:pac:

I already refuted your fragile lies on that thread before it was deleted (I don't why) but am not gonna bother
uploading screenshots on Imgur again cos you don't worth the efforts really, I'll just quoto from your same little report
you're running around with.
Despite the revolutionary regime's intention to stamp out the clan politics, the government was commonly referred to by the code name MOD. This acronym stood for Mareehaan (Siad Barre's clan), Ogaden (the clan of Siad Barre's mother), and Dulbahante (the clan of Siad Barre son-in-law Colonel Ahmad Sulaymaan Abdullah, who headed the NSS). These were the three clans whose members formed the government's inner circle. In 1975, for example, ten of the twenty members of the SRC were from the Daarood clan-family, of which these three clans were a part; the Digil and Rahanwayn, the sedentary interriverine clan-families, were totally unrepresented.
Military influence in the new government increased with the assignment of former SRC members to additional ministerial posts. The MOD circle also had wide representation on the Supreme Council and in other party organs. Upon the establishment of the SRSP, the National Political Office was abolished; local party leadership assumed its functions.
Faced with shrinking popularity and an armed and organized domestic resistance, Siad Barre unleashed a reign of terror against the Majeerteen, the Hawiye, and the Isaaq, carried out by the Red Berets (Duub Cas), a special unit recruited from the president's Mareehaan clansmen. Thus, by the beginning of 1986 Siad Barre's grip on power seemed secure, despite the host of problems facing the regime.
Astonishingly, although at the time he was in his early seventies and suffered from chronic diabetes, Siad Barre recovered sufficiently to resume the reins of government following a month's recuperation. But the accident unleashed a power struggle among senior army commandants, elements of the president's Mareehaan clan, and related factions, whose infighting practically brought the country to a standstill.
Opposed to the constitutional group were elements from the president's Mareehaan clan, especially members of his immediate family, including his brother, Abdirahmaan Jaama Barre; the president's son, Colonel Masleh Siad, and the formidable Mama Khadiija, Siad Barre's senior wife. By some accounts, Mama Khadiija ran her own intelligence network, had well-placed political contacts, and oversaw a large group who had prospered under her patronage.
In November 1986, the dreaded Red Berets unleashed a campaign of terror and intimidation on a frightened citizenry. Meanwhile, the ministries atrophied and the army's officer corps was purged of competent career officers on suspicion of insufficient loyalty to the president. In addition, ministers and bureaucrats plundered what was left of the national treasury after it had been repeatedly skimmed by the top family.
The Red Berets systematically smashed the small reservoirs in the area around Galcaio so as to deny water to the Umar Mahamuud Majeerteen sub-clans and their herds. In May and June 1979, more than 2,000 Umar Mahamuud, the Majeerteen sub-clan of Colonel Ahmad, died of thirst in the waterless area northeast of Galcaio, Garoowe, and Jerriiban. In Galcaio, members of the Victory Pioneers, the urban militia notorious for harassing civilians, raped large numbers of Majeerteen women. In addition, the clan lost an estimated 50,000 camels, 10,000 cattle, and 100,000 sheep and goats.

The Isaaq as a clan-family occupy the northern portion of the country. Three major cities are predominantly, if not exclusively, Isaaq: Hargeisa, the second largest city in Somalia until it was razed during disturbances in 1988; Burao in the interior, also destroyed by the military; and the port of Berbera.
The military regime conducted savage reprisals against the Isaaq. The same methods were used as against the Majeerteen -- destruction of water wells and grazing grounds and raping of women. An estimated 5,000 Isaaq were killed between May 27 and the end of December 1988. About 4,000 died in the fighting, but 1,000, including women and children, were alleged to have been bayoneted to death.

The Hawiye occupy the south central portions of Somalia. The capital of Mogadishu is located in the country of the Abgaal, a Hawiye subclan. In numbers the Hawiye in Somalia are roughly comparable to the Isaaq, occupying a distant second place to the Daarood clans. Southern Somalia's first prime minister during the UN trusteeship period, Abdullaahi Iise, was a Hawiye; so was the trust territory's first president, Aadan Abdullah Usmaan. The first commander of the Somali army, General Daauud, was also a Hawiye. Although the Hawiye had not held any major office since independence, they had occupied important administrative positions in the bureaucracy and in the top army command.

In the late 1980s, disaffection with the regime set in among the Hawiye who felt increasingly marginalized in the Siad Barre regime. From the town of Beledweyne in the central valley of the Shabele River to Buulobarde, to Giohar, and in Mogadishu, the clan was subjected to ruthless assault. Government atrocities inflicted on the Hawiye were considered comparable in scale to those against the Majeerteen and Isaaq. By undertaking this assault on the Hawiye, Siad Barre committed a fatal error: by alienating the Hawiye, Siad Barre turned his last stronghold into enemy territory.

Faced with saboteurs by day and sniper fire by night, Siad Barre ordered remaining units of the badly demoralized Red Berets to massacre civilians. By 1989 torture and murder became the order of the day in Mogadishu. On July 9, 1989, Somalia's Italian-born Roman Catholic bishop, Salvatore Colombo, was gunned down in his church in Mogadishu by an unknown assassin. The order to murder the bishop, an outspoken critic of the regime, was widely believed to have had come from the presidential palace.

On the heels of the bishop's murder came the July 14 massacre, when the Red Berets slaughtered 450 Muslims demonstrating against the arrest of their spiritual leaders. More than 2,000 were seriously injured. The next day, forty-seven people, mainly from the Isaaq clan, were taken to Jasiira Beach west of the city and summarily executed. The July massacres prompted a shift in United States policy as the United States began to distance itself from Siad Barre.
:dead:

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:48 pm
by Rambie
LOL who revived this thread?

If I wasn't so busy, I would take part in this debate.

Son Of Nomad = SON

You just keep making fool of yourself over and over again.

:pac:

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:19 am
by LiquidHYDROGEN
This Son of Nomad is really dumb. His own "sources" are contradicting his nonsense. :lol:

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:45 am
by thegoodshepherd
idoorians keep grasping at straws :lol:

Siyad Barre aun, will go down in history as the man under whom Somalia achieved a cultural revolution from nomadism to settled life. And who put the somali language in written form forever transforming how we think.

From now until eternity, when historians talk about Somali nationalism, they will speak of Siyad and his abti The Sayid.

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:00 pm
by Rambie
idoorians keep grasping at straws :lol:

Siyad Barre aun, will go down in history as the man under whom Somalia achieved a cultural revolution from nomadism to settled life. And who put the somali language in written form forever transforming how we think.

From now until eternity, when historians talk about Somali nationalism, they will speak of Siyad and his abti The Sayid.
If you mean by nationalism abounding Ogaden and NFD (Somaliwyne) for limited short term gains,
then by his kacaan revisionist, yh, he was a legend!

Image
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Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 2:13 pm
by TheGrumpyGeeljire
Siad Barre destroyed Somalia. He single-handedly managed to turn A relatively powerful African country into a failed state. Afweyne also accomplished in sowing the seeds of hate and distrust among Somalis, he is the root cause of all problems Somalis face today.

Pan-Somalism was destroyed by his regime. To say otherwise. Is nothing short of stupidity.

Re: Silaanyo's second term

Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:01 pm
by LiquidHYDROGEN
idoorians keep grasping at straws :lol:

Siyad Barre aun, will go down in history as the man under whom Somalia achieved a cultural revolution from nomadism to settled life. And who put the somali language in written form forever transforming how we think.

From now until eternity, when historians talk about Somali nationalism, they will speak of Siyad and his abti The Sayid.
Yeah. From a young, hopeful, self-suffiecient country with great prospects to a failed state living on Soviet and American AID. That's quite a revolution. :lol: