Majority of Ciidagale now live inside SomalilandWelcome back bro.
I just don't see any logic in Jug's arguments.
Furthermore, he claims to be a Cidagalle, isn't most of their territories is located in the Hawd/Ethiopia?
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Majority of Ciidagale now live inside SomalilandWelcome back bro.
I just don't see any logic in Jug's arguments.
Furthermore, he claims to be a Cidagalle, isn't most of their territories is located in the Hawd/Ethiopia?
Maybe ur right. Y'all are making me lose hope
Walaal, what is this idyllic Somalia that you are propositioning? I doubt Somaliland wants to be the sacrificial lamb for Somalia again. Unity has historically equated divestment in the north in favour of the south. Would there really be a change? Are you proposing that Somaliland lead Somalia into a new day? That has plenty of push back - on both sides.Somalis are more concerned with one-upmanship and less on cooperation. Although some are cunning with forked tongues - preaching unity but wanting the lions share of IMF, World Bank and African Development Fund loans. Anywho, Somaliland ought to concern itself with balancing its own political inequalities before talk about union/succession continues.
It is all about the bigger picture. Somalis won't go to your grave with you so why become despondent at matters beyond your control. Jannah or Jahanam son, that is what it is all about.Maybe ur right. Y'all are making me lose hope
Walaal, what is this idyllic Somalia that you are propositioning? I doubt Somaliland wants to be the sacrificial lamb for Somalia again. Unity has historically equated divestment in the north in favour of the south. Would there really be a change? Are you proposing that Somaliland lead Somalia into a new day? That has plenty of push back - on both sides.
As a Northerner I agree with you, I think we should get our share in Somalia it's our right, we can also lead it. We are stronger together.These are the three main reasons put forth to justify Somaliland's independence.
1. The political dispensation in Somalia from the very beginning in 1960 was unfair to the north. Due to the political culture of the south they are not interested in a fair and balanced system of sharing power.
2. The south is in chaos while Somaliland is an oasis of peace. Why join your house with your neighbours burning house?
3. Thousands were killed in northern cities by the Somali government. None of the criminals involved have been brought to justice.
In my opinion none of them hold water and here's why.
Ill start with the first point. To me this is misguided blame. Its not the south's fault that us northerners, swept up in a wave of nationalist sentiment, arrived in Mogadishu with the blue flag and pushed for a unity without any conditions. The southerners were much more politically shrewd and knew what was at stake. This resulted in us being sidelined during the 60s because of our own political shortcomings. But things changed with the Kacaan and northerners (including many Isaaqs) were given high level positions. In fact Siad Barre favoured the Isaaq in many ways because of their strong support for the kacaan in the early days; those of you who know about the special economic status Berbera was given for import export to the exclusion of other regions know what I'm talking about. Besides, what happened in the 60s is in the past, and we've definitely learned our lesson. Why are we acting like scared little girls who cant get whats rightfully theirs when it involves other Somalis? This baffles me because anyone whose seen someone from a northern city like Burco would know that reer waqooyi aren't push overs. I know all nomadic Somalis are like this, but northeners, regardless of clan, are especially known to be boisterous, loud and in your face, hence the term qaldaan. So its bizarre that they, specifically the Isaaq, practically turn into pussycats and want to hide in a corner when it comes to politics. My point is, everyone knows that northerners were wronged in the 60s, and this will definitely not happen again. In fact its more likely that the scenario will be reversed and that this time Somaliland will be in the drivers seat for a while with the blessing of the majority of Somalis, because they have much needed experience and expertise in governance.
This second point has the most merit, but it's only because Somaliland is much easier to pacify than the south. It's nowhere close to the confusing and competing patchwork of clans that reside in the south. It's basically the Isaaq, who form a big majority, along with some Harti (Dhulbahante, Warsangali) and Dir sublcans (Ciise, Gadabuursi). There are also smaller clans like the Madhibaan and the Fiqishinni (Subclan of Cayr, Habar Gidir). That's it. Also, it's culturally homogenous, with high intermarriage rates between the clans. This means wanton killings are very unlikley since dadku waa wiil iyo abtigii, and also because we all share the same xeer and thus our elders will be able to establish peace under a tree. Forget a myriad of clans, the south even has different ethnic groups and languages for Gods sake, so of course it going to be a very tall order to establish peace under such conditions. Not to mention that the capital is in the south, so all groups, like Al-shabaab and Amisom, who are vying to control this country will focus their attacks in Mogadishu. So it's not that northerners are inherently more peaceful, it's just that they've been lucky to live in an ethnically and culturally homogenous region, with very few competing clans and also happen to be very far away from the capital which is the epicentre of the violence. So when looked at from this light, the notion that southerners are savages and 'zoomalis' falls flat on its face. There is no difference between a Murursade man in Dayniile and an Ciidagale man in Salaxlay, it's just that the conditions they live in are different. In my opinion, it's Somaliland and Puntland's moral responsibility to team up and kick out both al-shabaab and Amisom from the south and pacify it. We can then move towards national reconciliation involving all the clans and factions and then form a strong unity government once there is forgiveness and trust is restored.
As for the last point usually brought up to support secession, I'll say this. First of all, the SNM rebellion preceded the bombings of Hargaysa and Burco. I see many Isaaqs making the mistake of saying the SNM had to fight the kacaan because it was bombing and killing their people, when in fact it was the other way around. We started the SNM in 1981 with the intent of toppling the regime, and then the SNM stormed the major cities of the north in 1988, which is what led to the bombings. Of course Siad Barre was dead wrong for bombing civilians, but he was a man desperate to hold on to power and would do anything to maintain his kursi. Look at what he did to his own kinsman in Mudug and Bari when they formed the SSDF. Wells were poisoned and many were killed, but the majeerteen have moved on and rarely bring this up. I know what happened in the north was worse, but we have to stop this victim mentality and stop peddling this victimhood narrative, because it's not befitting of the proud Isaaq clan. I'm not some african american living amongst cadaans, I'm a proud Somali living amongst fellow Somalis, so stop embarassing us with this victim bullshit and move the eff on. Also, it was the Kacaan that was responsible for the killings, so I don't get why many Somalilanders like to blame all daaroods or all southerners for it. What does a Mareexaan lady selling vegetables in Caabudwaaq or an Abgaal man in Ceelbuur have to do with the bombings in the north? The answer is absolutely nothing. Not even the current so called government of somalia has anything to do with it. Siad Barre's regime is long gone. So if Rwanda can move past the genocide of 1994, when neighbour was slaughtering neighbour, why can't we move on from what happened in the 80's, especially when we're not even up against those responsible for it?
And one last point, really quickly. An economic case can't be put forward either. The north is just as poor and unemployment just as rampant as in the rest of the country. Just look at the tahriib epidemic.
So is there any secessionist out there who can counter all of this with a convincing argument for secession?
I normally don't get into these political talks, but this one is interesting. And quite civilised. And to be frank, the narrative people have of southerners is as deplorable as the same ones that southerners have of northerners.
I'm a southerner, and to be specific from Xamar, my father was born in Xamar and he was very much in the political scene. He was twice arrested by Siad Barre's regime (aun) and was accused of being part of the USC.
Apart of my father the rest of my family aren't political or part of the political scene. We don't have one brother/son ever involved in military or participated in any fight whatsoever. I have an uncle who was supposed to fight in Hargeisa, but he fled Somalia altogether after being unhappy with the idea of attacking any Somalis. (His own words to me)
I lost brothers, nephews, nieces and entire families in the civil war, we've lost land (even though we got another in replace) and my father being an only kid missed the death of his mother after being jailed and not even being granted to go to her funeral.
The narrative is, we in the south were drinking caanbe whilst Somalis in the north were suffering. If I don't have my OWN family as an example I too would think we are fake, opportunists, xaasid, killers that are only out for their back, if the narrative is true we don't have Somalinimo bone in our body.
Peace!
Of course there is a lot of misunderstanding between Northerns & Southerns.I normally don't get into these political talks, but this one is interesting. And quite civilised. And to be frank, the narrative people have of southerners is as deplorable as the same ones that southerners have of northerners.
I'm a southerner, and to be specific from Xamar, my father was born in Xamar and he was very much in the political scene. He was twice arrested by Siad Barre's regime (aun) and was accused of being part of the USC.
Apart of my father the rest of my family aren't political or part of the political scene. We don't have one brother/son ever involved in military or participated in any fight whatsoever. I have an uncle who was supposed to fight in Hargeisa, but he fled Somalia altogether after being unhappy with the idea of attacking any Somalis. (His own words to me)
I lost brothers, nephews, nieces and entire families in the civil war, we've lost land (even though we got another in replace) and my father being an only kid missed the death of his mother after being jailed and not even being granted to go to her funeral.
The narrative is, we in the south were drinking caanbe whilst Somalis in the north were suffering. If I don't have my OWN family as an example I too would think we are fake, opportunists, xaasid, killers that are only out for their back, if the narrative is true we don't have Somalinimo bone in our body.
Peace!
Gave up on Somaliland ever becoming recognized in a meaningful way long ago. It is a pipe dream in my opinion. Decades later and the situation will probably still be very similar to the status quo.
Was it possible for Somaliland to Legally Unite with Somalia-Italia in 1960? Verbally we can unite with mars 1 day after our independence.
Isaaq sacrificed Somaliland for the greater good of all Somalis on June 27th, 1960 when the Act of Union was ratified and signed in Hargeisa by the National Assembly of Somaliland, 2/3 of the MP's being Isaaq.
1990sGave up on Somaliland ever becoming recognized in a meaningful way long ago. It is a pipe dream in my opinion. Decades later and the situation will probably still be very similar to the status quo.
Sure ...
Well Eritrea got it after 30 years, so what?1990sGave up on Somaliland ever becoming recognized in a meaningful way long ago. It is a pipe dream in my opinion. Decades later and the situation will probably still be very similar to the status quo.
Sure ...
2000s
2010s
...isn't that enough data?
What if 40 years passes by and it still hasn't happen. Will you give up then?Well Eritrea got it after 30 years, so what?
What if 40 years passes by and it still hasn't happen. Will you give up then?Well Eritrea got it after 30 years, so what?
Was it possible for Somaliland to Legally Unite with Somalia-Italia in 1960? Verbally we can unite with mars 1 day after our independence.
Isaaq sacrificed Somaliland for the greater good of all Somalis on June 27th, 1960 when the Act of Union was ratified and signed in Hargeisa by the National Assembly of Somaliland, 2/3 of the MP's being Isaaq.
1. The Act of Union Law was passed in 31-Jan-1961.
2. Somaliland's proposed act of union was not incorporated in the final act of union.
3. Somalia-Italia outnumbered Somalilanders in parliament 3-1 out voting the on all issues.
It is the convenient revision of Hiiranonline that propagates the "27-jun-1960" as the legitimate date of union enactment.
Somaliland-Republic was independent not just a mere 4-days as unionist love to drum but until 31-jan-1961. Everything prior to that date was only verbal and neither legal nor binding. Somaliland's alleged 4-day independence is the single most propagated LIE with regards to the history of somaliland. You will hear it from the mouth of every somaliland politician, elder and intellectual. "we enjoyed 4-days independence prior to Unity". WTF
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