THERE IS NO CONVINCING ARGUMENT FOR SOMALLAND INDEPENDENCE

[Rambie]

It says after 1981. Of course it was wrong to collectively punish the Isaaq for the formation and activities of the SNM, but Siyaad Barre started his cadaadis on the beesha after 1981 which is the year the SNM was formed. Ill take back my stance if u can prove to me siyaad started targeting the Isaaq prior to the SNM being formed. Anigu Daarood uma hiilinayo, Im just after the truth saaxiib.

1979


1982


1988

[Bandit]

Horta Agent,

I know you're new, but do you read what you write?



Give me a summary of your main points ...

Lol Rambie, So just because I am new to this underground virtual marfash you reckon I dont know what I am talking about? How naive?
Anyway I will go out of my way to summarise the main points in my argument.

First and foremost, Somaliland aint getting recognized in your/our life time neither will it be recognized in the life of your children! I repeat, It won't and you will only be able to appreciate this if you know something about International Relations, if not you will ofcourse take offence to it
Secondly,

The political dispensation in Somalia from the very beginning in 1960 was unfair to the north. Due to the political culture of the south they are not interested in a fair and balanced system of sharing power.

As verifiable as this is, which the Somali elite back then were practising, fact remains that Somaliland elite also practice this and treat the whole Somaliland entity as their own clan maqaaxi! There is no f-king way you can dispute this point. You just can not!

Thirdly, given that the Barre regime committed such unspeakable atrocities against the people of Hargeisa and Burco, ( Isaaq) which numbered in the 50,000-70,000, why is it that Reerka are still using those dead bodies and unfortunate individuals as a bargaining chips and are unable to forgive or move on from it while the Christian clans of Rwanda have been able to do so? Tutsi and Hutus killed 2 mill of their own from each other, but were still able to reconcile and form a unified political entity ; Rwanda! Why is it, the questions remains are isaaaq unable to do so?
As I stated in my previous post, we live in a world where in terms of numbers, a lot more atrocities and actual genocides have taken place. Yet you will never see any nation,community, clan or country using their dead as such, that's other than Yahuuda! It's only the Jews who use their dead as a bargaining chip!...........Even those African hutu/tutsi clans ya all talk down to don't do such despicable thing!

And to conclude, Ree Sheekh Isaxaq never wanted to be part of Somalia prober. I will repeat again, the only reason why the Northern regions joined the Southern regions was for the simple fact that the Colonial Powers planned it so, as well as the fact that USP rendered the wishes of the SNA PMs void, coz USP had the majority over SNA in the Northern Parliamentarian votes

I will leave you with this to ponder upon. Ilaahbaa igu og , Isaaaqu were and are still unable to come to terms with the fact that a Dir sub clan ; Ciise is a Sovereign recognised legitimate country, and they are not. Yes Isaaq would probably be much more capable of running such a country in their own degaan than Ciise but, unfortunately, it just was not suppose to be!

I expected better than that Agent.
British were apposed to unifiy with Somalia Italiana but we did it anyway.
How it was scheduled by super powers if they opposed to it? (I bet you got that from Wiki) Most importantly,
How can a minority force a majority to unite with Somalia? How would you react if you knew that Harti & Dir
were against the reunification with Somalia!

Since you like to talk about Isaaq and draw wide conclusions, why don't we do the same for Dir?
You just said SL is better for Isaaq, not Dir. Well, what about Somalia? Isn't Somalia better for Dir?
I mean, Dir managed to play on the same ground as other major clans thanks to Isaaq. Isaaq alone make 70-80%
of you "Dir confederation/nation" it's only natural that you want them on bord with you in Somalia. I can tell that you're still a firm believer of Somaliwayne. Not for Somalinimo or walanimo or any of that BS Somalis tend to push around. You
want Somaliwayne because the majority of your people (Gudabursi) are living in that region.
You see, we also can play this game, it goes both ways.

Let's assume for a sec that Isaaq living in Lughay district, Woqoyi Galbeed, Togdheer, two third of Sanaag, Caynabo and Xudun districts. All chosed to separate from Somalia while Cissa and GD in Awdal choose Somalia. Would Awdal join SL or
Somalia??? I think we both know the answer.

Finally, make sure that whatever you type here is true.

Where do isaaq learn how to do math
You people own nearly nothing in Hudun the 5 isaaq people in the edge of hudun don't count for much you don't own 2/3 of sanaag if that was the case it would mean the whole erigavo district is isaaq which im 100% sure is not true considering dhulbahante lives right in the middle of erigavo
Ironic isn't you accuse him of being not honest but your not honest your self
wait did I just seen you right isaaq make up 80% of dir

[Rambie]

^ Worrirs,
Politics is not you strongest points.
You think we would leave the shared districts for you to take it to Somalia?
We can kick you from the whole region forget about the shared districts.


I know you're not a bright person, I was talking about 4.5 system in the south.
Isaaq are counted with Dir, together, they form the largest "Somali clan" in Somalia.Yet, the highest
thing they achieved in Somalia during TFG/SFG is foreign ministry! don't forget, relatively small Dir sub clans
like Gudabursi, Cissa etc ... get a disproportionate number of seats in the parliament while Isaaq a large clan in it's own
that is larger than D&M and Darood only get 20 or 30 something seats. It is no secret that the biggest loser
if Isaaq (alone) break free from the Somalia are Dir.

[Jugjugwacwac]

It says after 1981. Of course it was wrong to collectively punish the Isaaq for the formation and activities of the SNM, but Siyaad Barre started his cadaadis on the beesha after 1981 which is the year the SNM was formed. Ill take back my stance if u can prove to me siyaad started targeting the Isaaq prior to the SNM being formed. Anigu Daarood uma hiilinayo, Im just after the truth saaxiib.

1979


1982


1988

Thants some good info. Thanks saaxiib.

[Bandit]

^ Worrirs,
Politics is not you strongest points.
You think we would leave the shared districts for you to take it to Somalia?

were taking buuhoodle district with us who have atleast 30-35% isaaq alot more isaaq than xudun who is atleast 90% Dhulbahante
The only shared district you might have an argument in is erigavo and the only reason for that is because you occupy the district capital and their is some isaaq in the town
I know you're not a bright person, I was talking about 4.5 system in the south.
Isaaq are counted with Dir, together, they form the largest "Somali clan" in Somalia.Yet, the highest
thing they achieved in Somalia during TFG/SFG is foreign ministry! don't forget, relatively small Dir sub clans
like Gudabursi, Cissa etc ... get a disproportionate number of seat in the parliament let me see isaaq were given 28 seats of 61 dir seats and you think this equals 80%
So to you 28/61= 80%+

while Isaaq a large clan in it's own
that is larger than D&M and Darood only get 20 or 30 something seat. yet another bs you people made bring that 2005 study ill show why your wrong

[Rambie]

^ Worrirs,
Politics is not you strongest points.
You think we would leave the shared districts for you to take it to Somalia?

were taking buuhoodle district with us who have atleast 30-35% isaaq alot more isaaq than xudun who is atleast 90% Dhulbahante
The only shared district you might have an argument in is erigavo and the only reason for that is because you occupy the district capital and their is some isaaq in the town
I know you're not a bright person, I was talking about 4.5 system in the south.
Isaaq are counted with Dir, together, they form the largest "Somali clan" in Somalia.Yet, the highest
thing they achieved in Somalia during TFG/SFG is foreign ministry! don't forget, relatively small Dir sub clans
like Gudabursi, Cissa etc ... get a disproportionate number of seat in the parliament let me see isaaq were given 28 seats of 61 dir seats and you think this equals 80%
So to you 28/61= 80%+

while Isaaq a large clan in it's own
that is larger than D&M and Darood only get 20 or 30 something seat. yet another bs you people made bring that 2005 study ill show why your wrong

Sometimes, when talking to a fool, it's better to ...

[lali99]

It says after 1981. Of course it was wrong to collectively punish the Isaaq for the formation and activities of the SNM, but Siyaad Barre started his cadaadis on the beesha after 1981 which is the year the SNM was formed. Ill take back my stance if u can prove to me siyaad started targeting the Isaaq prior to the SNM being formed. Anigu Daarood uma hiilinayo, Im just after the truth saaxiib.

1979



Thants some good info. Thanks saaxiib.

Thats some good info kulaha. Why don't you take back your stance instead of just saying thanks saxiib? For some reason, i don't truly believe that your isaaq as many of us do because if you were one, you will fall back right away into your family ranks and offer a sincere apology for doubting our right to govern ourselves in our own land without having to consult anyone about it. We don't need somalians and they don't need somalilanders. I, among other countrymen, strongly believe that we don't have the same culture, the same priorities in life and the same destined path. As it happened before, southerns clans along with minorities clans that live with us will teamed up to undermined you. AS it happened in 1960, the same thing will happened again because of fellas like you who will do anything to have somaliweyn while putting your own interest on the side and serving interest of others.

[lali99]

And besides, it should be more than who gains and who loses when it comes to south vs north. We are facing an existential crisis. I don't give a crap if the south has more wasiirs or ambassadors than us, my only concern is cadowga ma iska dhicin karnaa as a nation and will our youth have education, jobs and a future? Why would we seperate and make it easy for our enemies to dominate us? Where is our pride and our dignity? It baffles me wallahi.

Talk about pride? Where is YOUR pride? Why will you accept to let the south have more wasir and ambassador if they don't have more rights than you? You're self-hate is so GRAND that you're showing all the symptoms of a STOCKHOLM syndrome. If you claim that your ancestral land is in Somaliland, then the best thing that you could do is to respect the majority opinion and forever hold your mouth. What you are doing right now is spitting on your ancestors struggle to dislodge a dictator to get leftovers given by somalians. We are better than that and it is why i don't believe that your isaaq.

[Jugjugwacwac]

Lali99 ur clearly unnaccustomed with my style of cold and distant objectivity. It's alien to u because ur an excitable simpleton shackled by his passions.

U really expect me to take back my stance based on a few sources uploaded by Rambi? I was already aware of the Ogaden/WSLF agression against Isaaq nomads in the hawd, only thing i wasnt privy to was the formal complaint made to siyaad barre by Isaaq elders. When i was telling Rambie that i would be willingg to change my stance i was talking about my stance on whether the formation of the SNM was worth it or not, and that's a tangential issue to this debate and wouldnt change my view on whether somaliland should secede regardless of the position I take.

But if your curious I still stand by my view that none of the rebellions by the various clan based militias fighting to topple the regime were worth it. I know that because Somalis r currently reaping the bitter fruits of their rebellions.

You, and many of the isaaqs here keep making the assumption that im suggesting we go to the negotiating table and meekly ask for our rights. Why do u guys view the south as the default dispenser of power. They have no power to give and need the north to save them. We'll be in the drivers seat to save the Somali ppl and Somali nation and Somali dignity, so stop ur weak minded and laangaab fear about being cheated and shortchanged once again like the 1960. And as for thinking im not Isaaq, i'm Ciidagale, y r u guys surprised im somalilwayn. My suldaan, many of our politicians that r too many to count and are known to all, our abwaans like dayrwaa and cabdi-waaxid gamadiid and many of my uncles are all Somaliwayn.

[theyuusuf143]

It says after 1981. Of course it was wrong to collectively punish the Isaaq for the formation and activities of the SNM, but Siyaad Barre started his cadaadis on the beesha after 1981 which is the year the SNM was formed. Ill take back my stance if u can prove to me siyaad started targeting the Isaaq prior to the SNM being formed. Anigu Daarood uma hiilinayo, Im just after the truth saaxiib.

1979


1982


1988

Thants some good info. Thanks saaxiib.

The WSLF was 20th century liyu police. History repeats it self. what happened in in 70s and 80s is happening in kililka right now. all Somali clans have no problem with iley himself, in fact they initially supported him but the atrocities his army committed is beyond acceptable. that may cause new civil between The Somali clans living in that occupied region.

[Arcturus]

DIR Eviction from the Kilil 5 is in full swing!



The Bahdill continues

[Rambie]

DIR Eviction from the Kilil 5 is in full swing!



The Bahdill continues

Khalid Ali is that you?

[luis1]

WSLF killed a lot of Issaqs, WSLF did not care human lives, they were only servants of Siad Barre. Everybody knows WSLF was a pawn of Siad Barre regime and he cleverly used this guerrilla to brutally punish his enemies and opponents. WSLF lost the sense of its cause after 1978 when they reduced the attacks against Ethiopians and began to kill its own people.

[Xildiiid]

Is Jugjugwacwac looking for a pat on the back or is he a sincere ethno nationalist? I'll reserve judgement until all the facts come out.

One thing I can say is that until all Somalis are on the same page, discussing issues such as unity/dissolving the non existant union, is a waste of time.

Nimanyow wakhtiga hayskaga ciyaarina.

[Jugjugwacwac]

Is Jugjugwacwac looking for a pat on the back or is he a sincere ethno nationalist? I'll reserve judgement until all the facts come out.

One thing I can say is that until all Somalis are on the same page, discussing issues such as unity/dissolving the non existant union, is a waste of time.

Nimanyow wakhtiga hayskaga ciyaarina.

Pat on the back from who? This is an online forum, and none of these people know me in real life, why would I care about anyone's approval on an anonymous forum? And how will these facts you talk about come out? I've been consistent on my views ever since the joining this forum.