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Dadka way inay fahmaan STR's ( Short tandem repeat )
way is badalaan 300 ama 250 sanba .

Cilmi ahaan Macquul maaha in Dhulbahante iyo Mareexaan ama Ogaadeen iyo Maareexaan STR isku mid wadaa noqdo ,

In yar oo Xulufo ah qabiil kasta way ku jiraan waana arrin la wada ogyahay .

Tusaale : reerka Dhulbahante nimaan lagu soo daray baanu Ognahay oo hadda reero waaweyn noqday
( maanta iyaguna way iis Ogyihiin anaguna waanu Ognahay ) .

Walaahi Shaki igama jiro in aniga iyo General : Maslax Maxamed Siyaad Barre haddii lanaga qaado DNA test ,
Isku natiijo noqon doono aniga iyo Jeneraal Maslax ,,
( Reerka Daarood Ismaaciil 90% waa E-m35 kana sii ah E-V32 ) .

Laakin Reerkii wacanaa ee reer Sheekh Isxaaq shaki baa kala galay kkkkkkkkk Gaar baa reerka Dir kusoo laabtay ( Sida Garxajis iyo gayb habar Jeclo ah ) markii la ogaaday najiida DNA .

You make no sense.
For example in one sentence, you admit your own sub clan of Dhulbahnte has added outsiders who are now huge in numbers. Then just below you claim a Marexaan - it’s on record have added midgaans - will be, with 100% certainty, related to you.

If you know your own Dhulbahnte have outsiders amongst you, how can you be that certain about Marexaan.


Let’s even go along with this nonsense about a question mark being over Isaaq being Dir or not. It still doesn’t change the fact we Isaaq have always moved more like family than any Darods. If you look at the facts on the ground in today’s Somalia. Darod is not united as friends let alone family. What use is some blood relation going back 1000’s years if you can’t offer each other a bucket of water. What use is it trying to prove Isaaq is not related by blood, if the end result is we behave and act like family in unison? If we level Las anood tomorrow the Majreteen would not offer you a hospital for your wounded let alone fight alongside You. However, if Majerteeb level Cerigabo, the Sacad Muse in Gabiley would be at the frontline with in the first day..

Ninyahow Isaaq midaysan laguma arag Somalia 1991kii kadib , meesha nin kasta danahiisu wataa lolz

Isaaqa midaysan bal ii toos xagee bay ku noolyihiin ?

I know when someone is trying to muddy the waters.

We all know the Somali people is a reality that exists just like the Isaaq clan living together with a common socio-politico unity is a reality that exists.

So save all your bs about all the factors that explain this.

Is your Y-DNA not directly passed from father to son to grandson to great-grandson, etc?

It is.

If a Habar Yonis has a T-haplogroup Y-DNA, then he has shared A MORE RECENT FATHER with Ciise Madoobe Dired than the majority of Habar Jeclo (who carry E-V32).

We don't care about your autosomal and all the other things that tell us things we know; that Isaaq is a reality that exists who intermarry, live in the same land, and share common cultural features.

We know that. NO ONE'S CONTESTING THAT.

But if you are an Isaaq with T Y-DNA (like Habar Yonis), you share a more recent father with Ciise Madoobe than the you do with Isaaq with E-V32 Y-DNA.

One more time so this is clear:

Autosomal and all that other stuff just prove you fully joined the unit after adoption, but to see whether you were adopted or not IS ONLY PROVEN by your Y-DNA (aka who is your daddy).

So let's say a group of Ciise Madoobe Dir left their tribe long ago and were adopted into "Habar Yonis."

Obviously today after so much intermarriage (giving each other girls) and sharing socio-cultural artifacts, their genetic information will be near identical.

But that will never take away from the fact that the adopted group will ALWAYS have the Y-DNA of their original Ciise Madoobe group.

You started talking about features and arid climates and what not. Phenotype has nothing to do with Y-DNA and that’s why I mentioned autosomal DNA.

Actually there seems to be an Isaaq-Dir split with Isaaq haplogroup T carriers being closer to each other than they are to Dir haplogroup T carriers.

The only anomaly are the Ciise and Gudabiirsi who could be closer to Isaaq T carriers than they are to Dir T carriers.

What if these two clan were originally Isaaq before being excommunicated? We already have two clans among Ciise who are originally HJ and Toljeclo respectively. Wardiiq Ciise (Yeesif-HJ) and Hooroone Ciise (Toljeclo).

Clans are social constructs and no one is denying that but we are bound by blood money and centuries of intermarriage and alliance.

There is no point in using DNA in an argument when there is not sufficient evidence to make generalisations.

Firstly, there are only around three HG-T 100+ STR test results on FTDNA. These samples belong to a Muse Cabdalle HY individual, a Samaron individual and a Surre sample. Even 100+ STR tests are not entirely reliable when assessing deep male lineages such as those of Somali clans. For instance, the Surre is almost as closely related to the above two as he is to the Scottish Y16897 sample if one was to go by STR's alone. However, they are much better than the error ridden limited STR tests some do. There are no other Dir HG-T results to speak of on FTDNA. On 23andme, there are Gurgura and Biimaal T's but none have tested with FTDNA which is more suitable for tracing male ancestry.

Secondly, DNA tests that use few STR's are a bad predictor as they even suggest a split between the Isaaq T results with some supposedly closer to the Samaron individual than they are to other Isaaqs. Hence, making generalisations based on limited STR's alone is folly to say the least. It is not wise to argue that there is any sort of split without first doing a Big Y Test. For example, on McGee's calculator, by solely using 12 STR tests, the closest relative was a Middle Eastern individual who did not even belong to the same T subclade. The same goes for the limited Darood E-V32 STR tests results. FFS, many of them do not event test more than 25 STR's.

Nonetheless, the most consistent T STR results available of any clan are that of the Ciise in the Iacovacci study. Those guys appear to be a clan cluster in that they have a unique STR DNA signature which points to them descending from the same clan founding father. They are sufficiently differentiated from the Isaaq, Samaron and Surre STR's. The Ciise are not alone in this in my opinion and with more individuals getting tested on FTDNA, a pattern will emerge where certain subclans will most definitely be based on blood and not necessarily a social construct.

There is definitely some truth to subclan identities formed after the adoption of Islam around 800-1000 years ago. The Harti might have an anomaly in Maxamud Saleeban, however, diverse Harti subclans all share a common ancestor within the past 800-1200 years max. This means there is also some truth to the Sheegaad concept where certain clans have adopted others. The difference is that some subclans maintain their clan homogeneity by identifying who is a blood clan member and who isn't as is the case with the Ciise, Samaron, Gurgura etc. whilst other have buried it in the mists of History.

^
He’s talking shit. The subclade is from eastern Mediterranean.

^
He’s talking shit. The subclade is from eastern Mediterranean.

How did it get to Somalia then? Via the same route as E1b1b? Who were the original population to have it? E1b1b is associated with Afro-Asiatic speakers of the Levant e.g. Natufians, probably.

^
He’s talking shit. The subclade is from eastern Mediterranean.

How did it get to Somalia then? Via the same route as E1b1b? Who were the original population to have it? E1b1b is associated with Afro-Asiatic speakers of the Levant e.g. Natufians, probably.

Haplogroup E is from Paleolithic Africa. Non indigenous haplogroups such as J1/J2, R1b, T-M184 reached Africa from the Levant and south Europe in the early neolithic.

We don’t know exactly when our subclade reached the Horn. I think it’s recent compared to older T subclades found in Africa because it’s shared with some really odd groups like Ashkenaz Jews and south Europeans.

As for the original people, no one knows exactly but the evidence points towards Mesopotamia and southwest Iran (Ancient Elam). The haplogroup is still a dominant lineages in southwest Iran, south central Iraq among Iraqi Arabs (who are assimilated natives) and northern Iraq/south eastern Anatolia in the Assyrian heartland.

What’s interesting is that the lineage is non existent among Kurds and Turkmen in northern Iraq/southeastern Anatolia but it’s the dominant lineage in Assyrians/Chaldeans.

How did it get to Somalia then? Via the same route as E1b1b? Who were the original population to have it? E1b1b is associated with Afro-Asiatic speakers of the Levant e.g. Natufians, probably.

Haplogroup E is from Paleolithic Africa. Non indigenous haplogroups such as J1/J2, R1b, T-M184 reached Africa from the Levant and south Europe in the early neolithic.

We don’t know exactly when our subclade reached the Horn. I think it’s recent compared to older T subclades found in Africa because it’s shared with some really odd groups like Ashkenaz Jews and south Europeans.

As for the original people, no one knows exactly but the evidence points towards Mesopotamia and southwest Iran (Ancient Elam). The haplogroup is still a dominant lineages in southwest Iran, south central Iraq among Iraqi Arabs (who are assimilated natives) and northern Iraq/south eastern Anatolia in the Assyrian heartland.

What’s interesting is that the lineage is non existent among Kurds and Turkmen in northern Iraq/southeastern Anatolia but it’s the dominant lineage in Assyrians/Chaldeans.

Thanks. When you say lineage, are you referring to the Y16897 subclass that's been found in Dir and HY/GX + a few other Isaaqs?

Haplogroup E is from Paleolithic Africa. Non indigenous haplogroups such as J1/J2, R1b, T-M184 reached Africa from the Levant and south Europe in the early neolithic.

We don’t know exactly when our subclade reached the Horn. I think it’s recent compared to older T subclades found in Africa because it’s shared with some really odd groups like Ashkenaz Jews and south Europeans.

As for the original people, no one knows exactly but the evidence points towards Mesopotamia and southwest Iran (Ancient Elam). The haplogroup is still a dominant lineages in southwest Iran, south central Iraq among Iraqi Arabs (who are assimilated natives) and northern Iraq/south eastern Anatolia in the Assyrian heartland.

What’s interesting is that the lineage is non existent among Kurds and Turkmen in northern Iraq/southeastern Anatolia but it’s the dominant lineage in Assyrians/Chaldeans.

Thanks. When you say lineage, are you referring to the Y16897 subclass that's been found in Dir and HY/GX + a few other Isaaqs?

No, I meant Haplogroup T.

The Y-16897 subclade that we belong to is from the eastern Mediterranean. It could be the Levant area and it could be the Aegean. No one knows exactly but our ancestor migrated from that region.

X.playa

How many years have you been beating the same dead horse?

By creating threads such as this one on Somalinet, all you are doing is bringing attention to the fact that some of y'all got Daddy Issues. On the one hand you have Isaaqs on social media etc. waving Dir Poms Poms and claiming 'Dir', 'Irir' whilst you wage a one man war against the 'Dir' label by even going as far as claiming Dir is not a clan but refers to people in general or settlers etc. just because your clan has long been held to be a subclan of Dir by many among your own subclan and the wider Somali population.

You will never see a Somali Sultan or prominent politician who claims to belong to a stand-alone 'Major' clan, Raxanweyn and Samaale Confederates being the exception, claiming that they are a subclan of another Somali clan.

X.playa

How many years have you been beating the same dead horse?

By creating threads such as this one on Somalinet, all you are doing is bringing attention to the fact that some of y'all got Daddy Issues. On the one hand you have Isaaqs on social media etc. waving Dir Poms Poms and claiming 'Dir', 'Irir' whilst you wage a one man war against the 'Dir' label by even going as far as claiming Dir is not a clan but refers to people in general or settlers etc. just because your clan has long been held to be a subclan of Dir by many among your own subclan and the wider Somali population.

You will never see a Somali Sultan or prominent politician who claims to belong to a stand-alone 'Major' clan, Raxanweyn and Samaale Confederates being the exception, claiming that they are a subclan of another Somali clan.

I think it bothers you that i continually debunk this Dir Ibnu Ram Ibnu Nag a fathomable non existence "clan" . Linguistically , historically and even genealogically this Dir never exist only in the mind of extremist revisionist like you , desperate to prove there is a common daddy between unrelated clans.

Don't project your desperation on Isaaq , there was never any historical evidence lumping Isaaq with Dir before the political "irirism" of the 1960s. No where will you ever hear in the entire history of the Somal a Gedabursi or Ciise siding with Isaaq genealogically , its total rubbish.

Now so far this Dir ibnu Hindi Ibnu Bataan issued no male childern so who is your daddy ?

Skywalker insulting a man mother is below the belt. The yusuuf might be a bit mad with his hindi ancestry loving nag. But he is not a bad bloke. And he is not sacad muse but he supports the zuberiya because of nationalism

X.playa

How many years have you been beating the same dead horse?

By creating threads such as this one on Somalinet, all you are doing is bringing attention to the fact that some of y'all got Daddy Issues. On the one hand you have Isaaqs on social media etc. waving Dir Poms Poms and claiming 'Dir', 'Irir' whilst you wage a one man war against the 'Dir' label by even going as far as claiming Dir is not a clan but refers to people in general or settlers etc. just because your clan has long been held to be a subclan of Dir by many among your own subclan and the wider Somali population.

You will never see a Somali Sultan or prominent politician who claims to belong to a stand-alone 'Major' clan, Raxanweyn and Samaale Confederates being the exception, claiming that they are a subclan of another Somali clan.

I think it bothers you that i continually debunk this Dir Ibnu Ram Ibnu Nag a fathomable non existence "clan" . Linguistically , historically and even genealogically this Dir never exist only in the mind of extremist revisionist like you , desperate to prove there is a common daddy between unrelated clans.

Don't project your desperation on Isaaq , there was never any historical evidence lumping Isaaq with Dir before the political "irirism" of the 1960s. No where will you ever hear in the entire history of the Somal a Gedabursi or Ciise siding with Isaaq genealogically , its total rubbish.

Now so far this Dir ibnu Hindi Ibnu Bataan issued no male childern so who is your daddy ?

I think Yusuf Dibjir will pass this one. The poor lad doesn’t know if his HJ or Sacad Muse, Isaaq or Dir, going or staying. His mother was a harlot and claimed his father passed away in the habar wars. It’s left him all confused...