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Skywalker insulting a man mother is below the belt. The yusuuf might be a bit mad with his hindi ancestry loving nag. But he is not a bad bloke. And he is not sacad muse but he supports the zuberiya because of nationalism

Bizarre since when supporting a sub clan against other equal clans is nationalism? mays tidhi uunsiigii reerkiinaa baryahan aad kugu baxay.

No Zubeeriya means no Somaliland . we can wipe out your entire HY , or Skywalker's futo xun and I can Guarantee you somaliland can still walk holding it's head high above the clouds for centuries . But if we do the opposite and finish off the habar awal, we can barely walk the next day . Zubeeriyadu is the backbone of our existence . So yes supporting habar awal is a nationalism and it should be preached in every marfish. Me I would even do in the schools but it's against the law

What is going on in this thread?

Skywalker insulting a man mother is below the belt. The yusuuf might be a bit mad with his hindi ancestry loving nag. But he is not a bad bloke. And he is not sacad muse but he supports the zuberiya because of nationalism

Bizarre since when supporting a sub clan against other equal clans is nationalism? mays tidhi uunsiigii reerkiinaa baryahan aad kugu baxay.

No Zubeeriya means no Somaliland . we can wipe out your entire HY , or Skywalker's futo xun and I can Guarantee you somaliland can still walk holding it's head high above the clouds for centuries . But if we do the opposite and finish off the habar awal, we can barely walk the next day . Zubeeriyadu is the backbone of our existence . So yes supporting habar awal is a nationalism and it should be preached in every marfish. Me I would even do in the schools but it's against the law

I think your munaafaqad and maftaalad is doing more harm to the Habar Awal then anybody else, you deliberately put habar awal on the spot so they would be insulted. stop the fataalnimo waryaa waad ka badbadisee.

Bizarre since when supporting a sub clan against other equal clans is nationalism? mays tidhi uunsiigii reerkiinaa baryahan aad kugu baxay.

No Zubeeriya means no Somaliland . we can wipe out your entire HY , or Skywalker's futo xun and I can Guarantee you somaliland can still walk holding it's head high above the clouds for centuries . But if we do the opposite and finish off the habar awal, we can barely walk the next day . Zubeeriyadu is the backbone of our existence . So yes supporting habar awal is a nationalism and it should be preached in every marfish. Me I would even do in the schools but it's against the law

I think your munaafaqad and maftaalad is doing more harm to the Habar Awal then anybody else, you deliberately put habar awal on the spot so they would be insulted. stop the fataalnimo waryaa waad ka badbadisee.

To be Insulted by who ? All isaaqs have a culture of insulting habar awal to feel good about themselves . You have been doing it for centuries. Habar awal needs to be a little more selfish and that's what I preach.

X.playa

How many years have you been beating the same dead horse?

By creating threads such as this one on Somalinet, all you are doing is bringing attention to the fact that some of y'all got Daddy Issues. On the one hand you have Isaaqs on social media etc. waving Dir Poms Poms and claiming 'Dir', 'Irir' whilst you wage a one man war against the 'Dir' label by even going as far as claiming Dir is not a clan but refers to people in general or settlers etc. just because your clan has long been held to be a subclan of Dir by many among your own subclan and the wider Somali population.

You will never see a Somali Sultan or prominent politician who claims to belong to a stand-alone 'Major' clan, Raxanweyn and Samaale Confederates being the exception, claiming that they are a subclan of another Somali clan.

I think it bothers you that i continually debunk this Dir Ibnu Ram Ibnu Nag a fathomable non existence "clan" . Linguistically , historically and even genealogically this Dir never exist only in the mind of extremist revisionist like you , desperate to prove there is a common daddy between unrelated clans.

Don't project your desperation on Isaaq , there was never any historical evidence lumping Isaaq with Dir before the political "irirism" of the 1960s. No where will you ever hear in the entire history of the Somal a Gedabursi or Ciise siding with Isaaq genealogically , its total rubbish.

Now so far this Dir ibnu Hindi Ibnu Bataan issued no male childern so who is your daddy ?

You debunked what? Nada! You are merely rehashing a historical source that has been discussed to death and filed under 'unreliable' due to lack of a corroborating primary source from Somalis themselves. There is not one Somali Abtirsi of Samaales/Somalis to support the theory that mythical founder of the Samaale/Somalis was a Hindu called Zumali. As for Dir not being historically mentioned as a clan, I don't know why I bother but here goes:

Your own French source mentions the existence of a Dir clan and he even lists Isaaq under Dir (p.g 340-341). I am not referring to the text that you selectively chose. In his own words:



https://archive.org/details/geographied ... a/page/340

According to your French source, supposedly a 'reliable' historical source, the two main ancestry groups among the Somalis are Darod and Dir. He then goes on to list some of the Dir (including Isaaq) and Darood subclans. He also does relay the Aladdin Carpet Riding fable as told to him by some of his Isaaq sources, probably Haji Sharmarke. Hence, even in the mid-19th century, there were conflicting sources as to whether you were Dir or of Ahlul Bayt origin.

Allow me to introduce you to another 19th century traveller also confused by what Somalis told him. Luigi Robecchi Bricchetti travelled extensively in the Horn of Africa and his work was published in an 1889 Italian journal. Even Brichetti came across the identity issues surrounding your clan. Just like your French source; Richard Burton; Lt Cruttenden etc.;....



https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/b/burton ... tml#nrc4-9

.......he received conflicting information about the identity of your clan. Some Isaaq sources even recounted that their Ahlul Bayt ancestor flew over on a Carpet across the Ocean to reach Mait. .

However, a Hawiye elder that Brichetti spoke to recounted that the Isaaq came under Maxamed Xinftere branch of Maha Dir and were not descendants of Ali Ibn Talib:



http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream ... te%203.pdf

Can you see a trend in all of these 19th century sources? I am not saying that either of them are wholly accurate as they are susceptible to error due to translations issues, bias of those recounting information etc. Nonetheless, they all confirm the existence of a Dir clan grouping but they also highlight the pre-existing Daddy issues associated with your subclan. On a side note, the Italian source even has the earliest recorded reference to Dir Aji Irir Somali (Samaale) and Hawiye Irir Somali (Samaale) Abtirsi that I have come across.



I know that you often try to bamboozle the poor youth with your false interpretation of the Gubba poems so as to discredit the fact that the Darood poets are associating Isaaq with Dir but who is more of an authority on the Gubba poems, you or Muse Galal? There is clear poetic historical evidence mentioning Dir as a clan in the Gubba poems as translated into English by Muse Galal and Andrzejewesky in their academic journal, 'A Somali Poetic Combat'.

http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream ... 20III).pdf

They are not the only ones either.

http://www.progressio.org.uk/sites/defa ... -peace.pdf


As for DNA, did I bring it up in this thread? Why don't you pick on your fellow clansmen who continued with with the DNA talk instead of attacking Little Ol Me? You seem so disturbed by my association with Somali y-dna that you name-check me in replies to other forumers when I am not even the subject of the discussion. Man, you are suffering from some serious PTSD from previous Karbashes that all you think of is 'Zumaale' when a discussion switches to DNA talk.

Waar we have always been Dir , but we became too big and thought we can get get away with this bullshit. Even the samaroon and ciise tried similar things but at least they were quite ashamed to change their whole identity. They justed created their own holy sheekh samaroon and and sheekh ciise tombs along side the many iidoor and Dooro fake tombs. The entire Somali race became Self haters because of Sufism almost every clan invented their quraysh dady out of thin air..

X.playa

How many years have you been beating the same dead horse?

By creating threads such as this one on Somalinet, all you are doing is bringing attention to the fact that some of y'all got Daddy Issues. On the one hand you have Isaaqs on social media etc. waving Dir Poms Poms and claiming 'Dir', 'Irir' whilst you wage a one man war against the 'Dir' label by even going as far as claiming Dir is not a clan but refers to people in general or settlers etc. just because your clan has long been held to be a subclan of Dir by many among your own subclan and the wider Somali population.

You will never see a Somali Sultan or prominent politician who claims to belong to a stand-alone 'Major' clan, Raxanweyn and Samaale Confederates being the exception, claiming that they are a subclan of another Somali clan.

I think it bothers you that i continually debunk this Dir Ibnu Ram Ibnu Nag a fathomable non existence "clan" . Linguistically , historically and even genealogically this Dir never exist only in the mind of extremist revisionist like you , desperate to prove there is a common daddy between unrelated clans.

Don't project your desperation on Isaaq , there was never any historical evidence lumping Isaaq with Dir before the political "irirism" of the 1960s. No where will you ever hear in the entire history of the Somal a Gedabursi or Ciise siding with Isaaq genealogically , its total rubbish.

Now so far this Dir ibnu Hindi Ibnu Bataan issued no male childern so who is your daddy ?

You debunked what? Nada! You are merely rehashing a historical source that has been discussed to death and filed under 'unreliable' due to lack of a corroborating primary source from Somalis themselves. There is not one Somali Abtirsi of Samaales/Somalis to support the theory that mythical founder of the Samaale/Somalis was a Hindu called Zumali. As for Dir not being historically mentioned as a clan, I don't know why I bother but here goes:

Your own French source mentions the existence of a Dir clan and he even lists Isaaq under Dir (p.g 340-341). I am not referring to the text that you selectively chose. In his own words:



https://archive.org/details/geographied ... a/page/340

According to your French source, supposedly a 'reliable' historical source, the two main ancestry groups among the Somalis are Darod and Dir. He then goes on to list some of the Dir (including Isaaq) and Darood subclans. He also does relay the Aladdin Carpet Riding fable as told to him by some of his Isaaq sources, probably Haji Sharmarke. Hence, even in the mid-19th century, there were conflicting sources as to whether you were Dir or of Ahlul Bayt origin.

Allow me to introduce you to another 19th century traveller also confused by what Somalis told him. Luigi Robecchi Bricchetti travelled extensively in the Horn of Africa and his work was published in an 1889 Italian journal. Even Brichetti came across the identity issues surrounding your clan. Just like your French source; Richard Burton; Lt Cruttenden etc.;....



https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/b/burton ... tml#nrc4-9

There is no Dir as a clan in that book . The Isaaq divided somalis into dir and daarood , dir been those who came though the sea or immigrants , not your Dir Ibnu Rag Ibnu Zag Hindi one night stand. Don't confuse the two.

Your second quote is misleading Curttenden didn't call Isaaq Aydur , if you read the " memoir of western idoor tribes" he state in it that the Daarood call Isaaq , Idoor . The Daarood claimed that shekeh Isxaaq married in to that tribe Idoor . But Curttenden states that Isaaq object to that narrative.

There simple as that. now when are you going to give up his Tarzan Hindu one night stand mythology?

There is no Dir as a clan in that book . The Isaaq divided somalis into dir and daarood , dir been those who came though the sea or immigrants , not your Dir Ibnu Rag Ibnu Zag Hindi one night stand. Don't confuse the two.

Have you even read the book?

In Page 339, the book comments on Somalis in the Chapter 'Les Somalis'. It is clearly stated in it that there are two great ancestors, Dir and Darood, and then goes on to list the sons of these ancestors in this page and the following one. Do you think people are dumb enough not to spot your biased and selective use of a source that is readily available online? The screenshot I posted earlier (pg. 338, not 340) clearly evinces my point.

Your second quote is misleading Curttenden didn't call Isaaq Aydur , if you read the " memoir of western idoor tribes" he state in it that the Daarood call Isaaq , Idoor . The Daarood claimed that shekeh Isxaaq married in to that tribe Idoor . But Curttenden states that Isaaq object to that narrative.

I never stated in my previous post that he called them 'Aydur', I stated that his source also showed the contradictory information Western explorers encountered as to what the origins of the Isaaq are, Dir or Ahlul Bayt. In his work, Cruttenden's Majeerten sources tell him that the 'Idoor' name is derived from a Galla family called Durr (Dir) into which a Sheekh Isxaaq presumably married.

The Mijjerthaine told me that the Galla family into which
Sheikh Isaakh married was called " Durr," and from that is
derived the name of "Edoor pg 64

https://archive.org/stream/jstor-179808 ... 6_djvu.txt

There simple as that. now when are you going to give up his Tarzan Hindu one night stand mythology?

How can I be offended or give up on something I never believed in? There isn't an oral historical reference to a Hindu Progenitor for Somalis/Samaales nor have any historical explorers who encountered Somalis in the 19th century encountered such a claim in their writings. Hence, why the obsession with arguing that the etymology of 'Somali' comes from a Hindu called 'Zumali'?

By arguing for such an etymology, you do know that you are tarnishing yourself in the process.

I mean you do go around saying you are Somali to non-Somalis, I assume, or do you state that you are an Ahlul Bayt Hashemite whose ancestor assimilated into the 'Zumali' ethnic group by marrying from the Dir clan?

Had you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't aske these silly questions, but you are a little teenager punk a novice ,

Daarood Ismaaciil married a woman called Doonbiro for Dir clan,

Sheekh Isxaaq had 2 wives , one named Xiis and the other was from a Dir clan by the name Magaadle , her name didn't survive the time, 100% of somali clans know their sub-clan founders very well, few ever remember the name of the particular matriarch, but since you are a little wet nosed punk i'd be patient to school you a bit.. In most of the time the clan of these matriarchs sruvive through.. Ba-Dir, Ba Makaahiil, Ba-Gaxarajis, Ba-Haiwye etc, but not their name, for it made no differences.

Now tell me.. what Xiis and Doonbiro.. proves >??? nothing/.

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 8&start=30

^^

In your own words!

Somali is a wide ethnic group with different ancestry genealogy. Isaaq share with dir only one thing neighbourhood and nationality Somaliland. But not the zumali ram nag. Even you zumali you call your self zumali.

This debate is above your intellect. The crux of my argument was not focussed on the controversy surrounding the paternity of your clan so don't get your knickers in a twist.

Your fellow pseudo Hashemite decided to open a thread in which he tried to assert that the etymology of Somali/Samaale/Dir stems from a Hindu migrant called Zumali. I merely responded to an accusation from him that I have no 'historical, genealogical or linguistic' evidence to prove otherwise. Funny how his own 'reliable' French source, and his own statement on the supposed origin of his Ahlul Bayt identity back-fired on him.

By his own account, he does not belong to the Somali ethnic group, neither do you as you also subscribe to the idea that your clan are 'Ahlul Bayt' attached to the Somali ethnic group. That is fine by me, but it would be greatly appreciated if you did not go around claiming that you are ethnic Somalis considering that your type shit on the Somali name.

As for my nick 'Zumaale', it is a tongue in cheek moniker that combines 'zum' with the 'maale' ending of my folkloric Samaale/Somali ancestor, nothing less and nothing more.

It's in drake brockmans book that zumali ram nag was a Hindu man and there are other sources to that claim this even dir and irir scholars have claimed this. Other claim they are related to Hill a common ancestor with oromo. Soomaalis and zumali are not the same. Somali is not ancestor or a man. Its just people with different genealogies. Soo maal geele soomaala. What unifies somalis is a common language and geographic location but not that ancestry abtirsiin.

It's in drake brockmans book that zumali ram nag was a Hindu man and there are other sources to that claim this even dir and irir scholars have claimed this. Other claim they are related to Hill a common ancestor with oromo. Soomaalis and zumali are not the same. Somali is not ancestor or a man. Its just people with different genealogies. Soo maal geele soomaala. What unifies somalis is a common language and geographic location but not that ancestry abtirsiin.

80% of Somalis share recent common ancestry that lived 3000 years ago, the Somali language and identity formed around 1000 years ago when we were a couple of hundred families that moved south and isolated from the other cushetics.

It's in drake brockmans book that zumali ram nag was a Hindu man and there are other sources to that claim this even dir and irir scholars have claimed this. Other claim they are related to Hill a common ancestor with oromo. Soomaalis and zumali are not the same. Somali is not ancestor or a man. Its just people with different genealogies. Soo maal geele soomaala. What unifies somalis is a common language and geographic location but not that ancestry abtirsiin.

80% of Somalis share recent common ancestry that lived 3000 years ago, the Somali language and identity formed around 1000 years ago when we were a couple of hundred families that moved south and isolated from the other cushetics.

Proto Somali is 2000-2500 years old. So it’s a very old language. Proto Lowland Cushitic was spoken around 4000BCE (6000 years ago) in the southern coast of the Red Sea (Eritrea) possibly extending into modern day Somaliland.