yusuf's ancestor Ram Naag.

[X.Playa]

Voltage,

J2 is Anatolian and more common in Greece and Southern Europe than it is in the Middle East. I think you meant J1 and that haplogroup has been in Africa since the Neolithic just like R1. It’s not a newcomer. You might argue that coastal Somalis who carry it are descendants of migrants but how do you explain some Garres in deep K5 and Omotics in remote areas of Ethiopia carrying it?

Also Haplogroup J is from the Caucasus mountains while R is from the Eurasian steppes.

X.Playa,

Who are these Ischaqs mentioned in the first source?

Ischaqs or Isxaaq or Isaaq , he is a French speaker so he spelled it in French. He tried to render the " X" in Isxaaq a ch , in many occasions he stated the clan of Sheekh-Isxaaq which how his informer rendered it most likely. He at least mentioned two people who gave him some informations, one Caraale Majeerteen and Sharamaarke Cali Saalax of Berbera.

[ImamAhmed]

There’s no debate or grey area. All historical poems refer to us as Dir. the place we inhabit in the Dir family tree is well known. Xplaya clutching at straws trying to make it out dir is not a clan but another describing word to delegitimise historic poems. Xplaya is an ex muslim that worships arabs. This is a first.

[X.Playa]

There’s no debate or grey area. All historical poems refer to us as Dir. the place we inhabit in the Dir family tree is well known. Xplaya clutching at straws trying to make it out dir is not a clan but another describing word to delegitimise historic poems. Xplaya is an ex muslim that worships arabs. This is a first.

What historical poem connects you to Dir Ram Nag kid?

[Xildiiid]

The Dir are our brothers but we are not Dir.

[Voltage]

Voltage,

J2 is Anatolian and more common in Greece and Southern Europe than it is in the Middle East. I think you meant J1 and that haplogroup has been in Africa since the Neolithic just like R1. It’s not a newcomer. You might argue that coastal Somalis who carry it are descendants of migrants but how do you explain some Garres in deep K5 and Omotics in remote areas of Ethiopia carrying it?

Also Haplogroup J is from the Caucasus mountains while R is from the Eurasian steppes.

X.Playa,

Who are these Ischaqs mentioned in the first source?

Thanks for the correction. Yes, J1.

Also I can think of a very quick theory with the Garre or an Oromo or any non-Semitic speaking Ethiopian who may have J.

Historical rape.

Just like a large chunks of African Americans have European Y-DNA (we all know their Black fathers did not come from the British isles) because of rape by White men on Black women, similarly we can look at Ethiopia to see

1. The country has the only indigenous Black Semitic-speakers (Amharic, Tigrinya, rtc)
2. The country also consistently tests 20-25% J1-carriers.
3. The Semitic-speaking J carriers were also the historically dominant/oppressive group.
4. You cannot rule out what effect rape and genetic displacement has had from those historicallt dominant Semitic speaking J-carriers on small pockets of people within larger groups.

Again I refer you to the African-Americans who

Many African-Americans, when they perform Y-DNA testing, discover that their Y-chromosome is of European origin. This has been attributed to the common practice among slave-owners of fathering children by their female slaves.

Any existence of J1 outside of the indigenous Semitic-speakers in Ethiopia unless it corresponds to recent Arab admixture is in my estimatation a function of either historical rape or genetix displacement as a result of Abbysinian oppression.

This is over a thousand years so we also cannot rule out natural population reorganization like would happen if some Amhara group drifted to end up being "reorganized" within other populations in Ethiopia. After all, you love to stress the Cushitic-speaking Agew were completely adopted into the Amhara people. The inverse is also the case

In general,you shouldn't really bring up small subsections of groups when we are talking about averages.

[UgaaskaBarakaysan]

Strange how you love to preach about DNA yet believe in a Boon clan from a single Boon patriarch! Half of your clan are Boons , Tumaals and Midgo yet you believe in Mareexaan, . Get out of the town.

I don't understand what this means to be honest. Why are you getting mad at me sxb? Teeda kale boon iyo tumaal iyo waxaad sheegeysid I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN IT NOR DO I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANYONE IS BORN DIFFERENT. That's me as Voltage. Boonta aad sheegeysid is a name MAREEXAAN gave to people to put them down and I reject it and will reject it to this day to give gar against Marehan or ANYONE who tries to legitimize it's sheer ridiculousness.

Also, it's quite hilarious that is coming from you to ME knowing the amount of information I have collected on Somalis including your own Habar Yonis and Kuul Carre,Damal Muuse, and Lo-Jir. I even have accounts of a British colonial officer sitting there recording a particular subclan to "Moussa Arreh" was incorporated as a diya-paying group just the previous month!

But I don't care to expand on this because this is my own personal views on this issue

I disdained Somalis and their whole cultural positioning the day I found out "Tumaal" means "blacksmith", a man with skill who invents and makes stuff. Lol @ the idea of an illiterate nomad disparaging a man with skill. If I were to be transported back and see Siyaad Diini himself disparage a man more skilled than him, I would have slapped my dear ancestor silly.

In general that is all irrelevant, I think this is a generational issue.

We all know you are quite older and in a very different generation than most of these kids.

I am one of the few that does NOT insult you for being a Buddhist or non-Muslim.

I believe in freedom of choice (just like i believe we are all born equal to the Madhibaan thing above ) and give you that right to decide for your own self what your value system is.

I just find it INCREDIBLY IRONIC that like an old jaahil Somali of your generation, you still subscribe nobility to fake and discredit Arab myth creation stories which all informed during the Somali conversion to Islam to feel "closer" to the prophet.

Waa yaab wallahi how a man who left Islam to embrace buddishm is at the same time so beholden to such fake stories that have been disproven by GENETIC EVIDENCE.

If this is the non-Muslim among us, imagine odayaashaan xun who are strong Muslims.

If someone brought the prophet Mohamed to tell them to their faces Carab ma tihiin, they would replay beenloow baad tahay

P.s. Just like I said Isaaq are not Arab, neither Mareexaan nor Darod are Arab. I don't know what else you want me to say

Its irrelevant really what is your personnel believe , facts are that Mareexaan clan is made up of Boons and Midgo and others. Whether you believe in Midgo or not is beside the point.


Yet despite all of the evidence you insist that there is a such a clan as Mareexaan despite the makeup of it . My question was simple why would you insist that Isaaq should not trace their decent to Isaaq which always has been the tradition and yet insist of your Boon clan to stick to its myth despite the glaring contradiction. You only apply this convenient DNA when it comes to Isaaq to lope it under Dir which some ill informed children like Yusuf and other groupies love to claim out of thin air. In essence when iam saying is we can debate if we can apply all research on clans in good faith.

I have no illusion when it comes to natural evolution to clans , various clans mix , adopt and assimilate and myth is created and later it becomes a tradition , but i wouldn't overthrew a tradition for a political myth like Dir and such appellation.

That's blatant misinformation sxb just because you are having a debate of your clans origins doesn't mean we are as confused as you. One way in which you guys can find out who is right about Isaaq's origins is by looking at your abtirisi and finding out your common ancestors are. Your clan elders will most likely be well versed in this matter. However Marehan is a very homogenous clan, all people that claim Marehan abtirisi to a common ancestor which is how we know that Darood is a real clan as well since all sub clans have a convergence of relatives in abtirisi there is zero contradictions in this method.There are no illegitimate people we allow in, those with the bon prefix or known as boons have a large range of documented peer reviewed history as being slaves for the nomaidc clans whom inhabit the south. First the Borana had them and once they were cleansed or subjugated in the region by the conquerors of the area they were taken by the nomadic clans that came into the region. Our origins are well documented and with the abtirsi method there is no way of being wrong. However it seems in your case there are some claiming Dir and some claiming Shiekh Isaaq (Iraq) a clear and definite way to find out who is correct is by showing your abtirisi and who your common ancestory is. And by the way that source you provided was from a much later date and was sourced from an excerpt in this book.



Also since many of the people in this section are seemingly ignorant or unaware of the slave dynamics of the south I will educate you on how we acquired the our "bon marehan" slaves who were slaves to borana and were referred to as "Bon Borana" before they were enslaved.




As all of the historical peer reviewed literature and direct documents from the British Jubbaland Protectorate states these slaves with the "bon" prefix had no blood ties with the groups they were indentured to but were used for "menial labor and or used as scouts.


Many of the borana or oromo in the area that had these indentured servants before our push into the region were also conquered and put into subjugation.

[SahanGalbeed]

Straight up embarrassing baboons. Whenever I come back to this place , I am always amazed by the sheer nonsense you guys can argue about . Like the most absolute fukin nonsense

[Xildiiid]

Voltage,

Some of the J1 carrying Omotics live in remote areas of Ethiopia with minimal contact with the outside world and other ethnic groups to this very day let alone in during Axum or Abyssinia. The idea of rape is preposterous.

The same can be said about J1 carrying Garre in deep Kilil 5 and NFD. The Habeshas cemented their control of the region quite recently i.e colonial times. Their contact with Somalis in deep Kilil 5 or NFD was nonexistent.

Also J1 has been in Africa since Neolithic times. That’s thousands of years before the South Semitic Yemenis migrated from Yemen to Eritrea.

[Xildiiid]

Straight up embarrassing baboons. Whenever I come back to this place , I am always amazed by the sheer nonsense you guys can argue about . Like the most absolute fukin nonsense

Waryaaa Ina Ram Nag dooda ka qeyb qaado.


We are all the sons of Ram Nag

[Voltage]

With all due respect Xildiid, and this goes for your KowJow cousin above who completely misinterpreted that groupw testing he brought;

You are neither a geneticist, nor a historian, nor an anthropologist.

You should realize the limitations of your knowledge on this issue.

And generally, you are heavily motivated by political considerations (I am most closely related to Sicilians and Sheekh hebel ruler of Emirates--ilaahayow may ku maqlaan) which is behind your (and I am not trying to insult you) lack of confidence. Even this emphasis that J1 or Semities formed in Africa or even your almost petty regurgitation not all the Ethio Semitic-speakers are J1 is another manifestation iskuma kalsoonid as E-V32.

Somehow you still subscribe nobility to near east than your own Africa. That's really the underlying motivation.

War anigu nin Soomaali aha baan ahay who is Black and proud to be bonafide indigenous Black African descent. Carab iyo yahuud iyo Sicilians xaarkooda ha cunaan haday rabaan

That's a general conclusion on my part as a response to your completely typical over blowing of small J1 cariers. Southern Ethiopia is not even remote. It's flat grassland that's been traversed by everyone. What's actually remote are the Amxaaro and Tigree villages and churches way up in the mountains no one can climb. If there are small j1 carriers among the conquered of Ethiopia, we all known what happens when rape and genetic displacement occur.

I have already mentioned African Americans, but in more recent times, by some estimates, the Russians raped 1/3 of German women under their control after the defeat of Nazis. Please go locate all that displaced Germanic bloodline that is now teeming with Russian/Slavic Y-DNA. This has been happening in Abbysinia over a 1000 year long Habesh domination is not a farfetchdd idea.

In general, I just smell insecurity for being a Black African indigenous E3b carrier when throughout history we have subscribed nobility to outside Africa, near Eastern Arab origins.

You will see what I see when I read your posts on this later if you come to accept and be proud of who you are.

[original dervish]

After reading through pages of cringe worthy nonsense......the only conclusion one can reasonably arrive at.......is that are two major coons on snet......enough said.

[theyuusuf143]

The man is too old to accept the reality it's very hard to convince the old generation. The younger generation like us are going to make Dir great again.

Actions make someone or people great, not by being part of a clan. What actions are you the younger generation gonna do to make your clan great again?

Good question, the younger generation of our clan are not just making Dir great again but we are also contributing to preserve the Somali Race. We are active in the areas of science, geopolitics and culture. For the last 15 years the younger generation of Dir succeeded To

1. To pute all Dir clans under one banner in geopolitics
2. To challenge the fake arab myths
3. We encouraged all Somalis to test their DNA , we have specialists in this area like Dr Zumaale.
4. We created a massive social media platform for Dir. Today we are one of the most powerful clans in social media. We shake countries not counties .

I can keep on and on but I believe my generation is Best generation of Dir . For the last 1000 years. We are are like the Oromos of the 21th century. Soon we gonna take over the entire horn.

[ImamAhmed]

X playa you know the exact poems that’s why you come up with your bullshit about Dir not even being a clan but another describing word. Beesha direed lama aasi karo how ever much you try. Better you swim with the current than go against it because you’ll get swept away with this one. All isaaq saladeen go with Dir.

[Khalid Ali]

Imam Ahmed you brought the argument of poems bring the poems and we will explain these poems no isaaq ever claimed to be dir or darood or hawiye. Apart from the prostitute that are in xamar as dirty woqoyis.

[Xildiiid]

With all due respect Xildiid, and this goes for your KowJow cousin above who completely misinterpreted that groupw testing he brought;

You are neither a geneticist, nor a historian, nor an anthropologist.

You should realize the limitations of your knowledge on this issue.

And generally, you are heavily motivated by political considerations (I am most closely related to Sicilians and Sheekh hebel ruler of Emirates--ilaahayow may ku maqlaan) which is behind your (and I am not trying to insult you) lack of confidence. Even this emphasis that J1 or Semities formed in Africa or even your almost petty regurgitation not all the Ethio Semitic-speakers are J1 is another manifestation iskuma kalsoonid as E-V32.

Somehow you still subscribe nobility to near east than your own Africa. That's really the underlying motivation.

War anigu nin Soomaali aha baan ahay who is Black and proud to be bonafide indigenous Black African descent. Carab iyo yahuud iyo Sicilians xaarkooda ha cunaan haday rabaan

That's a general conclusion on my part as a response to your completely typical over blowing of small J1 cariers. Southern Ethiopia is not even remote. It's flat grassland that's been traversed by everyone. What's actually remote are the Amxaaro and Tigree villages and churches way up in the mountains no one can climb. If there are small j1 carriers among the conquered of Ethiopia, we all known what happens when rape and genetic displacement occur.

I have already mentioned African Americans, but in more recent times, by some estimates, the Russians raped 1/3 of German women under their control after the defeat of Nazis. Please go locate all that displaced Germanic bloodline that is now teeming with Russian/Slavic Y-DNA. This has been happening in Abbysinia over a 1000 year long Habesh domination is not a farfetchdd idea.

In general, I just smell insecurity for being a Black African indigenous E3b carrier when throughout history we have subscribed nobility to outside Africa, near Eastern Arab origins.

You will see what I see when I read your posts on this later if you come to accept and be proud of who you are.

So I’m the one pushing a narrative?

R1 and J1 have been in Africa since the Neolithic. This is a fact wether you like it or not. Also the majority of Habeshas are Cushites who shifted to South Semitic languages. A minority among them carry South Semitic paternal lineages while all Habeshas irrespective of their paternal haplogroup carry South Semitic autosomal DNA (around 10-15%).

The idea that they spread J1 through rape is ridiculous.

My closest non Somali paternal relatives based on genetics i.e T-MRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) happen to be the Bani Malik clan in UAE/Iraq/Kuwait specifically the Al-Ali subclan followed by some Ashkenaz Jews and south Europeans (Sicilians, Italians, Greek) etc.

This does not mean I’m not Somali because my autosomal DNA is Somali.

You should stop being insecure.