Welcome to SomaliNet Forums, a friendly and gigantic Somali centric active community. Login to hide this block

You are currently viewing this page as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, ask questions, educate others, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many, many other features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join SomaliNet forums today! Please note that registered members with over 50 posts see no ads whatsoever! Are you new to SomaliNet? These forums with millions of posts are just one section of a much larger site. Just visit the front page and use the top links to explore deep into SomaliNet oasis, Somali singles, Somali business directory, Somali job bank and much more. Click here to login. If you need to reset your password, click here. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Discussions regarding non-clan national political parties.

Moderator: Moderators

OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE
James Dahl
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:05 pm
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Contact:

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby James Dahl » Wed May 20, 2009 6:20 pm

From my research into the history of the Somali people, I have come to several conclusions.

The Somali people are descended primarily from two groups of people, two related and now forgotten people the Saamaalo and Orma, and the Arabs that conquered them around 700 C.E. (or about 50 A.H.)..
first of all Welcome back, that being said time to poke holes in some of you theories.
You depend to much on Oromo Genealogy and Folklore. I got nothing against our oromo cousin, but they seem to think that they a well spring from which all other ethnic groups spring from. recently there is a new theory that states that Somali people developed in Southern Somalia not ethiopia, egypt or Arabia. this theory states that the first Somali dialect was version of Af-maay maay in Southern Somalia. a pre-Rahanwayn population that grew to large for thier own land and eventually expanded to more arid lands. for example the word So maal is go milk as in milking a Camel. in the South amoung Rahanwayn Population is Sac maal Sac/Sa(mean a cow) and maal being to milk. this may point to Pre-Rahanwayn origin of the Somali people. in fact this pre-Somali population expanded both north and South. the north segment eventually differientated into darood, Hawiye, Ishaq and Dir while the south segment became the Digil/Mirifle, Garre, Boni, Ormo and the Rendille. the Northern clan eventually re-migrated to the south to resettle and conquor back lands that alway been Somali from the oromo.

for more clarification read Ali Jimale Ahmed. The invention of Somalia
I have a copy on my desk, excellent book :up:
The "Pre-Rendille-Somali" theory is quite weak. First off they never went into much effort to ascertain the origin of the Rendille, which a cursory examination of their genealogies would identify them as Gardheere Samaale, so it is not very surprising that they speak a language close to Somali. The Boni in turn are Swahili who were conquered by the Oromo, and thus their language is based on Arabic and heavily influenced by Oromo, which is the exact opposite origin of the Somali language but with the same result (a language half-way between the two).
Somalis have been in Somalia for millenia, they have not moved around anywhere, it is their identity that has moved around. The Orma did not suddenly migrate out of the inter-riverine region en-masse to be replaced by Digil and Mirifle. Somalis did not migrate south in some massive migration, they were always there.
What changed was identity, and religious differences.
The reason why Somalis do not consider themselves to be Oromo and instead "Somali" descended from "Samaale" is that quite simply, the Oromo identity is something that was created long after the conquest of Somalia by the caliphate.
The Saamaalo today are split. Half of the Saamaalo have joined the Boorana confederation (Boorana means east-facing) and today their descendants make up the Tuulama Boorana Oromo (Jarso, Dacci, Kono, Jille, etc). The other half were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Irir and Gardheere Samaale (Dir, Hawiye, Rendille etc)

The Orma are also split today. Some Orma remained simply Orma, others joined the Boorana confederation and make up most of the "Sabbo" moeity. Others were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Digil and Mirifle people.
Somalia was never conquored by the Caliphate the oromo say that that Zeila was thier city before Arabs conquored it which is total bullshit. the Caliphate or Islamic arab empire only conquored a small area of the eriterian coast and destroyed Axum's port of Adulis. they never extended their empire into somalia. although it true that Arab have migrated to the horn since ancient time and especailly during the time up heaval in their own territory and that some of those arab individual eventually set up dynasties in the horn of Africa. the Sultanate of Ifat the Walashama dynastry and the dynastry that rule Mugodisho for centuries does mean that arab were able to extend thier hegemony across Somalia territory. their greatest influence on the somalia people was our convertion to islam that it. so much of the above arguments are flaw to say the least. one more than for you information. the Borana are subdivide between the Borana proper and the west Borana the Macha and Tulama. all other are oromo are Barentu.
Oh but it was, this is a fact. It is a very little known fact but a fact nonetheless. The Caliphate conquered everything from Massawa to Mogadishu and probably beyond. The exact scope of the conquest and the intervening period is not very well understood, but this is the critical event in the history of the Horn.
Both the Orma and the Saamaalo in the pre-Islamic traditions claim descent from their ancestor, Horo, or Horu, thus making them "Horomo". When the various members of the Boorana and Barentuma confederations were trying to forge an identity for themselves seperate from the "Galla" name assigned by their various enemies and oppressors, they chose "Oromo", due to these common legends.

It is my belief that Horo or Horu is none other than Heru, otherwise known as Horus, who has been identified by several scholars with Cush, who in Biblical and Qu'ranic tradition is the son of Ham.
we have a common ancestor, look back in time long enough and one might be able to find when Somali and xabasha branched off. by the Heru, Horo or Horus is just an attempt by oromo to give themselve a more esteem history by connect themselve to first the Nubian cilivation and Egypt elustries past. supposedly they say that they are nubain who migrated to Ethiopian to escape drought, war etc. people often aren't happy being who they are especailly a people under occupation. i just don't know why they can't be proud to just be oromo instead of fabricating history and making mythic claims.
Actually, Oromo don't know about Heru or Horus, they just know that Horo was their ancestor, and that he lived very long ago. I've never heard of Oromo claiming any ancestry really, and they're actually extremely cagey about their lineages.
The Arabian conquerers arrived in Eritrea and Mogadishu about 700 C.E. and established several lineages, such as the Jeberti. In successive waves the conquerors expanded to include much of the horn of Africa in the Caliphate by 800 C.E. When the Abbasid Caliphate collapsed in around 900 C.E., many regions re-asserted their traditional independence from the Caliphate, such as the Argobba in Shewa and the Hadiya and related people around Harar. Arabian lineages dating back to the first invasion, such as the Jeberti established themselves throughout the horn.

After this date, more reliable history begins and you don't need me to tell you what happened after this.
wanting to be close to Prophet (swc) in term of blood is not unique only to the somali. Argobba, Harari, Afar, Jaberti all make similiar claims becuase being related to the prophet regardless of how much a stretch give one statue within a muslim community. this is the reason why one find Arab lingeages through muslim population in the horn not because of a conquest by the Caliphate.
I'm not so sure about that. Genetic studies has shown that a good percentage of people from the Horn ARE from Arabian lineages, and it would make sense anyways because the Horn is closer to Arabia than anywhere really. The heartland of Arabia, the west coast and Yemen, is closer to the Horn than anywhere else.

djibsomali
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5229
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby djibsomali » Thu May 21, 2009 3:17 am

I am sorry but you are very ignorant about the clan structure.
You don't even seems to know what a confederacy tribes is and what a clan is.

And plus when one ask you to add something you just add without any proof or real ground effort.

How do you expect to teach me my clan and somali history, while i was born unto it, i have elders that tell story which are just fairy tales and some that are real.
While you just sit in computers in your home and just collect garbages.

You don't even know what the DIR clan is. and have bloody mutilated with your child like scrible bunch fakes names and fakes genealogies.

Could you do us favour and just remove the DIR vomits from your whatever its name is.

User avatar
gurey25
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 19349
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:00 pm
Location: you dont wana know, trust me.
Contact:

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby gurey25 » Thu May 21, 2009 3:32 am

Your khalifate conquest theory dosnt carry much wieght and is irrelevant, because there were not many somalis on the coast.

moqadishu, merca , kilwa, mombasa, zanzibar were founded by arab/shirazi settlers,
the natives around moqadishu were not somali..

somalis were either nomads in the interior cattle or camel herding, or agriculturalists in the riverrine regions, meaning the vast majority would never have met an arab in thier lifetime.

User avatar
Jesteye
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:58 pm
Location: The league of evil (HQ).

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Jesteye » Thu May 21, 2009 3:41 am

From my research into the history of the Somali people, I have come to several conclusions.

The Somali people are descended primarily from two groups of people, two related and now forgotten people the Saamaalo and Orma, and the Arabs that conquered them around 700 C.E. (or about 50 A.H.).

The Saamaalo today are split. Half of the Saamaalo have joined the Boorana confederation (Boorana means east-facing) and today their descendants make up the Tuulama Boorana Oromo (Jarso, Dacci, Kono, Jille, etc). The other half were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Irir and Gardheere Samaale (Dir, Hawiye, Rendille etc)

The Orma are also split today. Some Orma remained simply Orma, others joined the Boorana confederation and make up most of the "Sabbo" moeity. Others were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Digil and Mirifle people.

Both the Orma and the Saamaalo in the pre-Islamic traditions claim descent from their ancestor, Horo, or Horu, thus making them "Horomo". When the various members of the Boorana and Barentuma confederations were trying to forge an identity for themselves seperate from the "Galla" name assigned by their various enemies and oppressors, they chose "Oromo", due to these common legends.

It is my belief that Horo or Horu is none other than Heru, otherwise known as Horus, who has been identified by several scholars with Cush, who in Biblical and Qu'ranic tradition is the son of Ham.

The Arabian conquerers arrived in Eritrea and Mogadishu about 700 C.E. and established several lineages, such as the Jeberti. In successive waves the conquerors expanded to include much of the horn of Africa in the Caliphate by 800 C.E. When the Abbasid Caliphate collapsed in around 900 C.E., many regions re-asserted their traditional independence from the Caliphate, such as the Argobba in Shewa and the Hadiya and related people around Harar. Arabian lineages dating back to the first invasion, such as the Jeberti established themselves throughout the horn.

After this date, more reliable history begins and you don't need me to tell you what happened after this.
Mate,

This is the new theory?!

Af_libaax
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:00 pm

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Af_libaax » Thu May 21, 2009 9:49 am

Jmes Dahl

because of our Clan complexity , Somali history will always ramain contrary ! , Unless DNA collection begins ?


I will bet you some Somalis will end up descendant of Autralian aborigines !


. the world must help Us DNA collection

.

User avatar
Grant
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5845
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Grant » Thu May 21, 2009 9:57 am

Jmes Dahl

because of our Clan complexity , Somali history will always ramain contrary ! , Unless DNA collection begins ?


I will bet you some Somalis will end up descendant of Autralian aborigines !


. the world must help Us DNA collection

.
DNA collection is not a bad idea and will solve many of the issues. But with Australian aborigines and Somalis, it is almost certainly the other way around. The Aborigines arrived in Australia 60,000 plus years ago, leaving Africa through the Horn and following the seacoast east. All of mankind outside Africa very likely descend from Somali relatives.

James Dahl
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:05 pm
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Contact:

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby James Dahl » Thu May 21, 2009 10:56 am

From my research into the history of the Somali people, I have come to several conclusions.

The Somali people are descended primarily from two groups of people, two related and now forgotten people the Saamaalo and Orma, and the Arabs that conquered them around 700 C.E. (or about 50 A.H.).

The Saamaalo today are split. Half of the Saamaalo have joined the Boorana confederation (Boorana means east-facing) and today their descendants make up the Tuulama Boorana Oromo (Jarso, Dacci, Kono, Jille, etc). The other half were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Irir and Gardheere Samaale (Dir, Hawiye, Rendille etc)

The Orma are also split today. Some Orma remained simply Orma, others joined the Boorana confederation and make up most of the "Sabbo" moeity. Others were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Digil and Mirifle people.

Both the Orma and the Saamaalo in the pre-Islamic traditions claim descent from their ancestor, Horo, or Horu, thus making them "Horomo". When the various members of the Boorana and Barentuma confederations were trying to forge an identity for themselves seperate from the "Galla" name assigned by their various enemies and oppressors, they chose "Oromo", due to these common legends.

It is my belief that Horo or Horu is none other than Heru, otherwise known as Horus, who has been identified by several scholars with Cush, who in Biblical and Qu'ranic tradition is the son of Ham.

The Arabian conquerers arrived in Eritrea and Mogadishu about 700 C.E. and established several lineages, such as the Jeberti. In successive waves the conquerors expanded to include much of the horn of Africa in the Caliphate by 800 C.E. When the Abbasid Caliphate collapsed in around 900 C.E., many regions re-asserted their traditional independence from the Caliphate, such as the Argobba in Shewa and the Hadiya and related people around Harar. Arabian lineages dating back to the first invasion, such as the Jeberti established themselves throughout the horn.

After this date, more reliable history begins and you don't need me to tell you what happened after this.
Mate,

This is the new theory?!
You've heard this before? Where?

User avatar
Somaliman50
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5850
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:11 pm

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Somaliman50 » Thu May 21, 2009 7:12 pm

I'l take this accordingly when there are facts to be noted here. :up:


OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE

Hello, Has your question been answered on this page? We hope yes. If not, you can start a new thread and post your question(s). It is free to join. You can also search our over a million pages (just scroll up and use our site-wide search box) or browse the forums.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Politics - Alternative Parties”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests