Welcome to SomaliNet Forums, a friendly and gigantic Somali centric active community. Login to hide this block

You are currently viewing this page as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, ask questions, educate others, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many, many other features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join SomaliNet forums today! Please note that registered members with over 50 posts see no ads whatsoever! Are you new to SomaliNet? These forums with millions of posts are just one section of a much larger site. Just visit the front page and use the top links to explore deep into SomaliNet oasis, Somali singles, Somali business directory, Somali job bank and much more. Click here to login. If you need to reset your password, click here. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Discussions regarding non-clan national political parties.

Moderator: Moderators

OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE
User avatar
Cali_Gaab
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 14013
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:50 pm
Location: Sleeping next to my life's cottage

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Cali_Gaab » Wed May 20, 2009 2:59 pm

The gremlins are offspring of Jeberti, once that guy took a bath in the Red Sea, Sade, iyo Kablalax iyo balaayo ayaa soo yaacay.

James Dahl
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:05 pm
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Contact:

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby James Dahl » Wed May 20, 2009 3:00 pm

Do yourself a favor and stop this crap
What's wrong with exploring history?
It's good to investigate one's roots.

James Dahl
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5212
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:05 pm
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Contact:

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby James Dahl » Wed May 20, 2009 3:17 pm

Sources:
Lineage sources for Oromo: History of the Oromo to the sixteenth century‎, Alemayehu Haile. Some very interesting and surprising things.
The link between Cush and Horus is mentioned many times, though I have yet to find a good book strictly referring to the connection.
Conquest by the Caliphate: Alluded to in many places but again someone needs to actually write a book on the subject, and not just mention it like they did here http://books.google.ca/books?id=XpdAzRY ... lQSD6LyEAg
There are many others. In ancient times there was a connection with India that is quite strong, but I don't have all the information. The Nagas of India were, according to Dravidian tradition, from East Africa. Then there's something to do with the worship of snakes, and Arwe king of the Horn, descendant of Ityopis. There are so many pieces of legends and fragments of history it's hard to put them all together.

What is untrue, as far as I can see, is that the whole Queen of Sheba story is nonsense. Put together because Shewa kind of sounds like Sheba. Makeda Nicaule was a high priestess of Isis (Kandake) at Meroe, not a queen of Shewa.

User avatar
Grant
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5845
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Grant » Wed May 20, 2009 4:24 pm

James,

Does your research indicate when these divisions took place? I mean the ones before 700CE.

How far back can you place these same folks in the same areas they are found today? Any chance they came out of the Sahara as it dried up and crossed the nile to reach better grazing in East Africa?

User avatar
Somaliman50
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5850
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:11 pm

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Somaliman50 » Wed May 20, 2009 4:31 pm

James, is there any truth in the claim that Aw Barkhadle converted some communities in India to Islam?

User avatar
SomaliAmir
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby SomaliAmir » Wed May 20, 2009 4:35 pm

From my research into the history of the Somali people, I have come to several conclusions.

The Somali people are descended primarily from two groups of people, two related and now forgotten people the Saamaalo and Orma, and the Arabs that conquered them around 700 C.E. (or about 50 A.H.)..
first of all Welcome back, that being said time to poke holes in some of you theories.
You depend to much on Oromo Genealogy and Folklore. I got nothing against our oromo cousin, but they seem to think that they a well spring from which all other ethnic groups spring from. recently there is a new theory that states that Somali people developed in Southern Somalia not ethiopia, egypt or Arabia. this theory states that the first Somali dialect was version of Af-maay maay in Southern Somalia. a pre-Rahanwayn population that grew to large for thier own land and eventually expanded to more arid lands. for example the word So maal is go milk as in milking a Camel. in the South amoung Rahanwayn Population is Sac maal Sac/Sa(mean a cow) and maal being to milk. this may point to Pre-Rahanwayn origin of the Somali people. in fact this pre-Somali population expanded both north and South. the north segment eventually differientated into darood, Hawiye, Ishaq and Dir while the south segment became the Digil/Mirifle, Garre, Boni, Ormo and the Rendille. the Northern clan eventually re-migrated to the south to resettle and conquor back lands that alway been Somali from the oromo.

for more clarification read Ali Jimale Ahmed. The invention of Somalia

The Saamaalo today are split. Half of the Saamaalo have joined the Boorana confederation (Boorana means east-facing) and today their descendants make up the Tuulama Boorana Oromo (Jarso, Dacci, Kono, Jille, etc). The other half were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Irir and Gardheere Samaale (Dir, Hawiye, Rendille etc)

The Orma are also split today. Some Orma remained simply Orma, others joined the Boorana confederation and make up most of the "Sabbo" moeity. Others were conquered by the Caliphate and today make up the Digil and Mirifle people.
Somalia was never conquored by the Caliphate the oromo say that that Zeila was thier city before Arabs conquored it which is total bullshit. the Caliphate or Islamic arab empire only conquored a small area of the eriterian coast and destroyed Axum's port of Adulis. they never extended their empire into somalia. although it true that Arab have migrated to the horn since ancient time and especailly during the time up heaval in their own territory and that some of those arab individual eventually set up dynasties in the horn of Africa. the Sultanate of Ifat the Walashama dynastry and the dynastry that rule Mugodisho for centuries does mean that arab were able to extend thier hegemony across Somalia territory. their greatest influence on the somalia people was our convertion to islam that it. so much of the above arguments are flaw to say the least. one more than for you information. the Borana are subdivide between the Borana proper and the west Borana the Macha and Tulama. all other are oromo are Barentu.
Both the Orma and the Saamaalo in the pre-Islamic traditions claim descent from their ancestor, Horo, or Horu, thus making them "Horomo". When the various members of the Boorana and Barentuma confederations were trying to forge an identity for themselves seperate from the "Galla" name assigned by their various enemies and oppressors, they chose "Oromo", due to these common legends.

It is my belief that Horo or Horu is none other than Heru, otherwise known as Horus, who has been identified by several scholars with Cush, who in Biblical and Qu'ranic tradition is the son of Ham.
we have a common ancestor, look back in time long enough and one might be able to find when Somali and xabasha branched off. by the Heru, Horo or Horus is just an attempt by oromo to give themselve a more esteem history by connect themselve to first the Nubian cilivation and Egypt elustries past. supposedly they say that they are nubain who migrated to Ethiopian to escape drought, war etc. people often aren't happy being who they are especailly a people under occupation. i just don't know why they can't be proud to just be oromo instead of fabricating history and making mythic claims.
The Arabian conquerers arrived in Eritrea and Mogadishu about 700 C.E. and established several lineages, such as the Jeberti. In successive waves the conquerors expanded to include much of the horn of Africa in the Caliphate by 800 C.E. When the Abbasid Caliphate collapsed in around 900 C.E., many regions re-asserted their traditional independence from the Caliphate, such as the Argobba in Shewa and the Hadiya and related people around Harar. Arabian lineages dating back to the first invasion, such as the Jeberti established themselves throughout the horn.

After this date, more reliable history begins and you don't need me to tell you what happened after this.
wanting to be close to Prophet (swc) in term of blood is not unique only to the somali. Argobba, Harari, Afar, Jaberti all make similiar claims becuase being related to the prophet regardless of how much a stretch give one statue within a muslim community. this is the reason why one find Arab lingeages through muslim population in the horn not because of a conquest by the Caliphate.
Last edited by SomaliAmir on Wed May 20, 2009 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
shaamboo
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5409
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Ardu allaahi maxaa karabtaa lokeshankeeyga

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby shaamboo » Wed May 20, 2009 4:43 pm

heey james why daaroods feel they are supprior to others ??

Enlightened~Sista
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 10831
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:55 am
Location: Stonetown, Zanzibar

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Enlightened~Sista » Wed May 20, 2009 4:49 pm

In ancient times there was a connection with India that is quite strong, but I don't have all the information. The Nagas of India were, according to Dravidian tradition, from East Africa. Then there's something to do with the worship of snakes, and Arwe king of the Horn, descendant of Ityopis. There are so many pieces of legends and fragments of history it's hard to put them all together.

:up: :up: :up:

U know there was a BBC programme about this....i didnt get to watch most of it it because my sister wanted to watch some other silly programme probably American idol :x ...veeery interesting..i believe it was called the History of India something like that.

User avatar
Grant
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5845
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Grant » Wed May 20, 2009 4:52 pm

SomaliAmir,

Yes, but.....

Where did the protoReewin come from? What is the earliest date for this culture?

Why do the royal mummies of the 21st, 22nd and 23rd dynasties, who are known to have come from Libya, all look like Somalis?

Consider the Cushitic languages. There are Somali linkages even to ancient Egyptian.

I think the story is longer and more complicated.

User avatar
SomaliAmir
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby SomaliAmir » Wed May 20, 2009 4:56 pm

In ancient times there was a connection with India that is quite strong, but I don't have all the information. The Nagas of India were, according to Dravidian tradition, from East Africa. Then there's something to do with the worship of snakes, and Arwe king of the Horn, descendant of Ityopis. There are so many pieces of legends and fragments of history it's hard to put them all together.

:up: :up: :up:

U know there was a BBC programme about this....i didnt get to watch most of it it because my sister wanted to watch some other silly programme probably American idol :x ...veeery interesting..i believe it was called the History of India something like that.

well everyone know about his, during Ahmed Guray conquest of Ethiopia, thousand if not hundred of thousand of ethiopian where sold as slaves other sea some end up in indian becaming the Eunuchs and Body guard to indian kings. one indian warlord of East africa descantant eventually become king of his own kingdoms.

User avatar
SomaliAmir
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby SomaliAmir » Wed May 20, 2009 5:04 pm

SomaliAmir,

Yes, but.....

Where did the protoReewin come from? What is the earliest date for this culture?

Why do the royal mummies of the 21st, 22nd and 23rd dynasties, who are known to have come from Libya, all look like Somalis?

Consider the Cushitic languages. There are Somali linkages even to ancient Egyptian.

I think the story is longer and more complicated.
your quite right

there are many theories

1) humanity began in east africa and that this population was alway there and eventually expand to egpyt so abvious ancient egpytians would look like us.

2) that we are the descentant of ancient egpyt or nomadic peoples in the vicinity of egypt and that we took two route into somalia. one was north along the red sea through Eritria and finally northern Somalia and another is that these nomads migrate south into Sudan and than east into Ethiopia before getting to Somalia.
honestry i have not idea, we just don't have enough informtion all of the above is hunches, specualations there is no concret evident and like James most of us of no choice but to realy on subjective Folklore.

ModerateMuslim
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6252
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby ModerateMuslim » Wed May 20, 2009 5:07 pm

a useless endeavor.....

Enlightened~Sista
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 10831
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:55 am
Location: Stonetown, Zanzibar

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Enlightened~Sista » Wed May 20, 2009 5:18 pm

The Story of India..thats what it was called...ive googled it..and this is what i found..http://www.mytvblog.org/?p=53

http://www.bwtorrents.com/showthread.php?t=109707 u got to register first

its really not that hard to believe that we are related to South Indians...i can just take one look at my immediate family and extended family..some of them wouldnt look out of place in a Tamil or Keralan village :lol:


I have to watch the whole thing sometime..that historian Michael Wood..really has a knack of making history interesting...i remember being transfixed to it..before my sisters said right..give us the remote.

User avatar
Kramer
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 4342
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: At Cawar's house, watching TV while Ina Baxar is practicing nursing on Cawar!
Contact:

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Kramer » Wed May 20, 2009 5:59 pm

When did Arabs conquered Somalia? Islam reached Somalia peacefully and before other arabs.
we traded and have relationship and culture with arabs.

so the only real Somali are hawiyes? the other ones are sidekicks.

Alluring
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 8237
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:44 am
Location: between past and future

Re: James Dahl's History of Somalis, based on my research

Postby Alluring » Wed May 20, 2009 6:05 pm

Image


OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE

Hello, Has your question been answered on this page? We hope yes. If not, you can start a new thread and post your question(s). It is free to join. You can also search our over a million pages (just scroll up and use our site-wide search box) or browse the forums.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Politics - Alternative Parties”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests