Somali reer baadiyenism is thier own fall (Ali Samantar case

[Voltage]

The whole point, really.

Only because u presume that i'm faulting the government, is it?

[Twisted_Logic]

That particular war was fought against in a region dominated by Tuure’s clan and I don’t think you will accuse him of massacring his own people.

So this legitimizes Aideed's heinous criminal response that led to bounties from both the U.N and U.S?

Because unlike Tuur's rebels, not all of the land Aideed waged war was dominated by his clan?

Let's put this US thing you keep injecting into the discussion aside. Aideed should be condemned from a moral, political, cultural and religious angles, much like every other criminal in our history. US view about him is irrelevant. The US government continues to sanction great many despots throughout Africa and Asia. This is pointless case to make.

Aideed is condemned by majority of the Somali people, same way MSB is condemned, same way Abdullahi Yusuf is condemned, same way Ali Mahdi is condemned and same way today's religious bandits are condemned and so forth, this has nothing to do with where the wars were/are fought or the clans involved. It is a simple matter of human rights and this should not be lost on us.

[Amethyst]

The whole point, really.

Only because u presume that i'm faulting the government, is it?

Only because you are presuming i'm defending the government is it?

[Amethyst]

Look fellas.....Whether its the legitimate power that kills, or an illegitimate power that does, they both are essentially doing the same thing: KILLING. Those folks BOTH need to be put on trial. However there is no cadaalad. And the people who have the least bit of cadaalad are the gaalos who's court system this case is currently passing thru. How about resting assured that at any split second one can die and that Cadaalad is found in the hereafter and there alone, and that one day the monster that lives next door will suffer the same consequenses if not a 1000 times over, eh? With that waan idinkaga tagay meeshu.

[Twisted_Logic]

Ok. Ilaah baan idinku dhaarshay. What is it u two are on the second page about? Arguing for the sake of arguing? cuz u agree with each other pretty much from what I can tell.

The whole point, really.

Only because u presume that i'm faulting the government, is it?

A) Because, Voltage doesn't think that crimes were committed by the regime. He dismisses the entire massacre simply as a law and order situation. This is my main disagreement with him.

B) With regards to your agreement of the government's faults, it is inconsequential. I applauded you for agreeing that either all the culprits should be pursued or they should be all left alone. You can't pick and choose on moral issues.

[Twisted_Logic]

Look fellas.....Whether its the legitimate power that kills, or an illegitimate power that does, they both are essentially doing the same thing: KILLING. Those folks BOTH need to be put on trial. However there is no cadaalad. And the people who have the least bit of cadaalad are the gaalos who's court system this case is currently passing thru. How about resting assured that at any split second one can die and that Cadaalad is found in the hereafter and there alone, and that one day the monster that lives next door will suffer the same consequenses if not a 1000 times over, eh? With that waan idinkaga tagay meeshu.

Wise word

[zingii]

Allahu-Aclam.

[Amirsade]

"Israel crowd is not alone in their support of Samatar, the Saudi government, perhaps also fearing that members of their government are vulnerable given their human rights record, has filed a brief on behalf of Samatar".

[Somaliweyn]

If however the discussion concerns the former in which case the legitimacy of the Somali government to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the nation against foreign-supplied rebels comes under attack, which is where you are coming from, I will be the first to defend the legitimacy of the government.

What legitimacy? Do you even know the definition of legitimacy?

Legitimacy: The state or quality of being within the law

One thus can rightfully say that the coup of 1969 was illegal and had no legitimacy. It was justified on the grounds of failures of the previous civilian government. The army staged a coup and used the corruption/mismanagment of the civilian government as an excuse to legitimize the power takeover. However, those excuses were not strong enough to legitimize the coup and the military government that was created out of that coup. Both were UNLAWFUL.

After 1980s, the military dictatorship failed in its stated objectives of eliminating clannism, nepotism, corruption and mismanagment. These objectives gave it popular support which thus can be said made it acceptable as the government of Somalia. After the 1980s, the military dictatorship not only failed in its stated mission but brought nepotism, corruption, clannism and mismanagment to a whole new level.

Reasoning from there on, one can say that the different movements had legitimate reasons to wage a military/political campaign to overthrow the military dictatorship. Their arguments rest on two rightfull grounds:

- The military coup was illegal and destroyed the constitution of the Somali Republic. As such, the military goverment that was created from that coup was unlawfull.
- The military goverment had mismanaged the country to the point corruption, clannism, nepotism became unbearable for the different segments of Somali population, hence the arrival of the different movements trying to overthrow the dictatorship.

[Hyperactive]

Look fellas.....Whether its the legitimate power that kills, or an illegitimate power that does, they both are essentially doing the same thing: KILLING. Those folks BOTH need to be put on trial. However there is no cadaalad. And the people who have the least bit of cadaalad are the gaalos who's court system this case is currently passing thru. How about resting assured that at any split second one can die and that Cadaalad is found in the hereafter and there alone, and that one day the monster that lives next door will suffer the same consequenses if not a 1000 times over, eh? With that waan idinkaga tagay meeshu.

oh if we just have more people like this girl, somalis would reach some where.

between TL and voltage that`s where the truth lies.

[Twisted_Logic]

If however the discussion concerns the former in which case the legitimacy of the Somali government to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the nation against foreign-supplied rebels comes under attack, which is where you are coming from, I will be the first to defend the legitimacy of the government.

What legitimacy? Do you even know the definition of legitimacy?

Legitimacy: The state or quality of being within the law

One thus can rightfully say that the coup of 1969 was illegal and had no legitimacy. It was justified on the grounds of failures of the previous civilian government. The army staged a coup and used the corruption/mismanagment of the civilian government as an excuse to legitimize the power takeover. However, those excuses were not strong enough to legitimize the coup and the military government that was created out of that coup. Both were UNLAWFUL.

After 1980s, the military dictatorship failed in its stated objectives of eliminating clannism, nepotism, corruption and mismanagment. These objectives gave it popular support which thus can be said made it acceptable as the government of Somalia. After the 1980s, the military dictatorship not only failed in its stated mission but brought nepotism, corruption, clannism and mismanagment to a whole new level.

Reasoning from there on, one can say that the different movements had legitimate reasons to wage a military/political campaign to overthrow the military dictatorship. Their arguments rest on two rightfull grounds:

- The military coup was illegal and destroyed the constitution of the Somali Republic. As such, the military goverment that was created from that coup was unlawfull.
- The military goverment had mismanaged the country to the point corruption, clannism, nepotism became unbearable for the different segments of Somali population, hence the arrival of the different movements trying to overthrow the dictatorship.

Well said, you also have to remember that, when the coup happened MSB regime promised a return to civilian government and said that the coup was only temporary. Of course, it continued to rule for 21 more years.

[Twisted_Logic]

Look fellas.....Whether its the legitimate power that kills, or an illegitimate power that does, they both are essentially doing the same thing: KILLING. Those folks BOTH need to be put on trial. However there is no cadaalad. And the people who have the least bit of cadaalad are the gaalos who's court system this case is currently passing thru. How about resting assured that at any split second one can die and that Cadaalad is found in the hereafter and there alone, and that one day the monster that lives next door will suffer the same consequenses if not a 1000 times over, eh? With that waan idinkaga tagay meeshu.

oh if we just have more people like this girl, somalis would reach some where.

between TL and voltage that`s where the truth lies.

Amethyst and I are speaking the same language. Our view is that all criminals should be prosecuted. Voltage, because he worship the MSB and his regime, feels that only criminals that came after MSB (minus Hiraale) should be prosecuted. This is one of my many disagreements with him.

[The_Emperior5]

Amethyst and I are speaking the same language. Our view is that all criminals should be prosecuted. Voltage, because he worship the MSB and his regime, feels that only criminals that came after MSB (minus Hiraale) should be prosecuted. This is one of my many disagreements with him

on the floor