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History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Daily chitchat on Somali politics.

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Somaliweyn
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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Somaliweyn » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:36 am

Warsame,

Different periods of Somali history should be evaluated on their performance, not because what came after some period was worse, then the period in question automatically is good.

The post-1991 will be discussed and then you can air all your complaints about Aideed or Ali Mahdi.

Lets first focus on pre-1991, especially the 21 years brutal military dictatorship. And please cite your sources (author, title and year)...posting image files as source doesn't help me to find the literature you used

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby musika man » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:44 am

viva mohamed siad barre, all other somalis leaders after him are cursed. they kicked that old dude out, what happened? with him, somalia will be functioning today. the ethiopian plan started in the 70's. ethiopian friends like snm somalilanders, ssdf abdulahi yusuf, and USC aydiid, somalia never needed enemies. why blame meles zenawe? truth be told.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Warsame101 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:49 am

[quote="Ina Baxar"]:lol: , been down this road many times.
Lagu heeshin kari maayo arrintan .



"Similiary for the SNM who deliberatly dug-up "mass-graves" and declared that they were executed Isaaqs whilst these mass-graves could have been the thousands of Daaroods that were executed by the SNM during its brief capture of Hargeysa and Burco."
Laughing
What's that right there warsame101? Is that an analytical description BASED ON EVIDENCE? Laughing I think not inabti !![/quote]



Ina Baxar, remember that many thousands Daarood were killed when they captured Hargeisa and Burco. Why do you think that thousands of articles are written about the unfortunate bombings of '88 but yet the killings of Daaroods and Dir (Gadabursi) during '88 were ignored? Especially during the annual 'SNM' rallies.

The evidence is based on the last citations that I presented (not too long ago):

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... cities.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... ities2.jpg

AbdiWahhab, qaladka anaa leh for giving you some attention.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Somaliweyn » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:50 am

For the long post of comparision between Siad Barre's era and the civilian governments era: see General: Current Events.



For people who only want to read the short version, here's my conclusion of the carefull, unbiased (as far is possible)investigation of Barre's era:

Conclusion:

Siad Barre stole the ruling seat by proclaiming that he would eradicate evil things like clannism, nepotism, corruption and would restore a sense of confidence in national will and a minimum basis for national cooperation. In the first years of his rule he came with PR-stunts which secured him popular support. But as soon as the economic windfalls generated by the previous civilian government ended after 1974, Siad Barre had to secure his wide support and launched a premature invasion of Ethiopia to gain the Ogaden region, this turned disastrous despite the courageous effort of Somali soldiers. After the 77 war things went really bad, economy was bankrubt, self-reliance policy abandoned in favour of IMF-ism, clannism, nepotism and corruption surfaced back. Instead of restoring confidence in national will and a minimum basis for national cooperation, and fighting the evils of the previous civilian government Siad Barre’s oppressive military dictatorship further underminned any credibility the Somali state had, and ultimately destroyed any confidence and hope Somalis had in a neutral Somali state which rises above clan structured society and is free from nepotism, corruption and clannism. The dead of the First Republic of Somalia was a fact when Siad Barre was forcefully removed from the capital of Somalia. His brutal repressive measures undermined any future national unity and the required minimum of trust between the different Somali groups which is the basis for national cooperation. This was only further exacerbated by the civil war and enduring anarchy in many parts of Somalia.



PS: Always state your used source, thus: author, title of book/paper, and year of publication. So we can double check the used literature.
Last edited by Somaliweyn on Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby sadeboi » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:51 am

Somaliweyn did you even comprehend what warsame wrote? Obviously not, I suggest you re-read it and rebuttal wisely, he has degraded you and your incompetence.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Ina Baxar » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:58 am

Warsame101, you're missing my point. Can you prove that the mass graves dug up by the SNM were "non -Isaaqs"?

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Warsame101 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:06 am

[quote="Ina Baxar"]Warsame101, you're missing my point. Can you prove that the mass graves dug up by the SNM were "non -Isaaqs"?[/quote]

Ina Baxar, you are right, I have misinterpreted your point.

However, you also misinterpreted my point. I did not say that the mass graves dug up by the SNM were actually 'non-Isaaqs'. I said and I quote:

"Similiary for the SNM who deliberatly dug-up "mass-graves" and declared that they were executed Isaaqs whilst these mass-graves COULD HAVE been the thousands of Daaroods that were executed by the SNM during its brief capture of Hargeysa and Burco."

meaning, the SNM openly professed that these corpses were Isaaqs who were executed by Morgan but it 'could' (emphasis on the 'could') also have been the Daarood corpses who were executed by the SNM.

There is no way that SNM could ascertain the identity and tribal affiliation of these corpses. They do not have the equipment nor the financial capacity to instigate an thorough investigation for such type of work.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby DawladSade » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:14 pm

[quote="Warsame101"]As usual, simpletons continue mis-using the term 'historical revisionism'. No wonder why these people kept the capital city hostage for the last 17 years, it seems that their own intellectuals cannot surpass the same brain level as their drug-crazed child soldiers.
[/quote]


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby gurey25 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:19 pm

[quote]Ina Baxar, remember that many thousands Daarood were killed when they captured Hargeisa and Burco. Why do you think that thousands of articles are written about the unfortunate bombings of '88 but yet the killings of Daaroods and Dir (Gadabursi) during '88 were ignored? Especially during the annual 'SNM' rallies.
[/quote]

the death of any innocent civilians is regretable.
but if any of those were associated with government , they were fair targets.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Somali_4Life » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:11 pm

[quote="AbdiWahab252"]SomaliWeyn,

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

So what is your opinion of Ali Mahdi ?[/quote]
I piss on him.Sometimes i wished Ali Mahdi was dead instead of Caydiid.Because this notorius General would never submit to amxaaro and not to dirty maxaarteens.

Make ali mahdi the leader of shoe-makers ,he will kiss your feet.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Luq_Ganane » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:42 pm

Hawiye's actions after 1991:

1) Completely destroying and looting even BASIC infrastructure of a city (Copper that was used for telecommunication) steal that was running underground that was part of the sewage system
2)Isbaaro (Roadblocks) in every neighborhood of Xamar, and all over the Shabeel region
3)Charcoal trade, which has helped destroy the environment (depriving the environment oxygen by cutting the trees, causing mass drought in Shabeelaha
4) Not being able to open the port in 17 years because of their trivial quarrelling amongst themselves,
5)Destruction of all the national monuments and treasures including the statue of the honorable Sayyid Cabdulle Xassan, which they sold piece by piece to foreigners
6) Helping disrupt the economy in the rest of Somalia with their piracy actions, which were very rare Marehan/Majerten controlled areas (Puntland, Kismayo)
7) Sitting on food aid that was destined for the poor folks of Bay and Bakool, thus starving them to death

These are just a FEW, of the grave violations and injustices inflicted by Hawiye to the nation of Somalia. What you guys have done for Somalia goes beyond "Government repression", but leads one to question your civilization standards, ethics, competence and intelligence as a clan. What Somalis are questioning is your place in the nation considering your barbarism, and complete lack of class as citizens or Statesmen. You (Hawiye) are in absolutely no position to question MSB (AUN) leadership, as the whole of Somalia is torn, on whether you guys could even be a productive, nation building populace in Somalia let alone "Leaders". The best statesmen that ever came out of your ranks had it on his national agenda to wipe out 1/3 or Somalia’s population. Know your place amongst Somalis, and in particular the noble Darood aka (True leaders of Somalia). Nuff said.

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Somaliweyn » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:51 pm

Present your arguments with sources and stop the emotional outcry.

To discuss the post-1991 we first need to understand the pre-1991 era.

- The civilian government of 1960-1969: with the pseudo democracy
- The military regime of 1969-1991: with the pseudo scientific socialism.


After we finish that discussion and we can agree on at least basic historical facts, we will move on to the Post-1991 with the usual instability, conflict and blossoming economy.

If you can't take the heat of this discussion without bursting into emotional outcry, stay out of the discussion.

Let's get the discussion started in the section General: Current Events

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Luq_Ganane » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:03 pm

Bafoon,

Quotations from text, evidences etc., are used to dig deeper into matters to assertain the truth value of peoples claims. Everything I mentioned right now is public knowledge, and there no need quotes and proofs. Just go to Xamar and see for yourself idiot. The bottom line is you Hawiye (as a clan), never ruled anything in Somalia yet you had a chance in 1991 to prove that you had some sort of a clue when it comes to BUILDING SOMETHING, something the people who had power earlier had done. You failed big time, and the whole world, Somalis abroad are disgusted with you and will never allow for Hawiye to have any leadership whatsoever. You guys are the lowest of the low in Somali society/politics and not because of qabil/social stigma but because of your actions. So MSB is the one who turned Xamar from a Indian ocean seaside gem, to the hell hole it is today? Get the hell out of here. Anyway I hope you guys had fun the last 16 years, because playtime is over. Right now even your own people are selling you out for a few measly bucks (i.e Qeybadid/M Dhere) etc. You have returned to your Pre MSB liberation days, as Majerten puppets and subbordinates up While we're embarking on building a prosperous region (Jubbaland) in Somalia. Enjoy it Hutu boy. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Somaliweyn » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:08 pm

Laughing

Again he bursts into emotional outcry.

When Abdiwahab comes with public knowledge you cry about ''academic research'' and your Pseudo-professor dismisses any argument the man puts against Siad Barre as ''without base''

So your emotional garbage and name-calling is without base to me Cool


Reverting to childesh name-calling= clear sign you can not take the heat of discussion.

In that case stay away from the section General: Current Events, cuz it would give you high blood pressure Laughing

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Re: History cannot be changed: To all revisionist people

Postby Luq_Ganane » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:32 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing , emotional outburst?, saaxib I was just keeping it real. The bottom line is you guys were meant to be led, and now you are back to being led. Just be good and behave now up Laughing


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