Hawiye Sheikhs and the Xamar Conflict

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

With all due respect to respected Scholars like Sheikh Cumar Faaruuq (and other real Sheikhs and not circumstantial gardheers), i think they should sit this one out when it comes to any rulings on the Islamic legitamacy of declaring someone a murtad in this conflict or declaring it to be "Jihad Fardul Cayn" in Xamar...as knowledgeable and pious as they could be, it's a conflict of interest and since they're only human, their emotions can get involved and cause them to make a decision based on passion and not Islamic evidence...anyone who loses family/friends/relatives/kinsmen in a situation and then makes a ruling on that situation automatically loses some credibility and causes room for doubt...we should leave any rulings to impartial Shayuuq

thats my labo shilling

[Murax]

War dhuliyahow haa is garab saarin qablistes like You and I with Sh Cumar Faaruq.

[BABYGIRL123]

There is no hawiye sheikh he is a sheikh give and show respect, secondly islam says anyone who supports foriegners oo weliba ah gala against fellow muslims is one of them.

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

[quote="Murax"]War dhuliyahow haa is garab saarin qablistes like You and I with Sh Cumar Faaruq.[/quote]

yaa is garab saaray?! did i say im a Sheikh or he's a qabiliste?! im sayin, it's logical anyone who's biased in an issue can't remain impartial and even if his ruling is correct, people can doubt and critisize it based on his connection to the situation

[Alchemist]

Whats the difference, even if the shayk was from your clan you would still not change..

Once i told a this guy who is pro TFG the ruling of shayk Cumar Farooq and he said well his Hawiye.. Then i told him about Shayk Umal, than he said well his Ogedan. Then Shayk shareef Abdinur, he said well his Sheikhal pretty much Hawiye also. Than i brought him proofs from the scholars of the past and yet he wouldnt accept..

My point is, most somalis made up their mind long time ago..

The truth is the truth..

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

[quote="BABYGIRL123"]There is no hawiye sheikh he is a sheikh give and show respect[/quote]


[quote="Mr. Yungnfresh"]With all due respect to respected Scholars like Sheikh Cumar Faaruuq (and other real Sheikhs and not circumstantial gardheers)[/quote]



enough said



secondly, there's sciences of rulings and different factors...not being a scholar, you can't jus say "bring foreigners and ur a gaal" like this is a diin you created and set the guidelines for

[Alchemist]

You see there is no way to go around it..

No god fearing shayk will ever give you the go ahead to support Ethiopia and USA war terror in a muslim land.

No way around..

The Americans are telling you their after islamist.. The ethiopians are telling you their after Islamist. The TFG is telling you they give all credit to the USA and Ethiopia.

No matter how hard you try you can bring anything good from that..

[FAH1223]

Sheikh Cumar brought Islamic evidence, from the Holy Qur'an itself, citing Suratul Mai'dah.

Babygirl said it best

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. " (Suratul Mai'dah: 51)


And Somalis have been clamoring for Xabashi help for over 20 years now. From every major clan family in some shape or form...we all know that.

There was a video from 10 years ago atleast, which had Shaykhs from every corner of Somalia repeating the same thing we are hearing today....

[Koronto91]

Mbagathi group supporters are so desperate that they will accuse everyone of being qabiiliste, while they are the biggest qabiilists in this equation.

Mr. Yungfresh,

Would you have supported your "government" if it was headed by a HG man rather than by AY? Did you support A/Qassim's government, which was more legitimate than AY's and never brought Tigres in to Somalia?

[FAH1223]

1997!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_fwbrQYZDc0

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

[quote="Koronto91"]Mr. Yungfresh,

Would you have supported your "government" if it was headed by a HG man rather than by AY? Did you support A/Qassim's government, which was more legitimate than AY's and never brought Tigres in to Somalia?[/quote]

it's not about whether i support the TFG or the reasons why, it's about the fact that logically, Somali Sheikhs have a qabiil and if their qabiil is the one entrenched in a conflict, they have a vested interest in a decision coming out a certain way and they are the direct beneficiaries of calls to Jihad and labelling individuals as murtads...whether they're justified in their ruling is irrelevant because people can PERCIEVE their decision as being self-serving, regardless of if it is or not

for example, if u wanna know about the exact circumstances of the Rwanda genocide, would u rather talk to a hutu, a tutsi or an impartial source and find out their observation on the issue? Granted, a tutsi might report the details accurately and everything they say about the Interhamwe could be true but human nature will make one sceptical about their information just because they're involved either directly or indirectly in the situation itself

p.s. the reference to Rwanda and the hutus is just an analogy and not intended to represent Hawiye United Towards Ugaarsi (HUTU)

as for ur question about supporting the TFG, i know its obviously corrupt but better a corrupt clansman than a corrupt enemy...if everyone is operating on a Islamic/Wadaninimo agenda, then i prefer that but if not, then I support he who supports me and my interests

[Rebel-Lion]

I bet most puntlanders would support a national government that benifits all no matter who's in charge, and that's the truth.

But every single government that has been tried has failed because those people in the south don't want stability and the only thing they know is violence, that's the reason why the ICU worked because they would karbash anyone who stood between them. That's what the TFG needs to do, the only problem is these insurgents use civilians as shields which is a cowardly act.

These same insurgents also beheaded three somali men who were just earning a living under the TFG, and some people here want to call that jihad. There is no jihad and these wahabi inspired insurgents(al-shabab) are the biggest threat to somalia.

Ethiopians have no interest in staying in somalia if the insurgents don't give them the excuse needed.

[Alchemist]

Like i said it has nothing to do with the shayks..

It could be Prophet Muhammad yet you wouldnt accept it..

FAH posted a video of 1997 war with Ethiopia.. Shayk Cumar Farooq and Shayk Umal gave the same answer..

[FAH1223]

[quote="Alchemist"]Like i said it has nothing to do with the shayks..

It could be Prophet Muhammad yet you wouldnt accept it..

FAH posted a video of 1997 war with Ethiopia.. Shayk Cumar Farooq and Shayk Umal gave the same answer..[/quote]

exactly, 11 years ago and its the same exact same thing

the ethiopians were in Jubba/Gedo I believe at that time and the shaykhs were giving the same answers and predictions of what would come according to Ethiopia's interests (which have happened esp Sh. Maxamed Rashad)

I dont really support either side cause I dont see any progress with either now to be honest, but the ethiopians have to leave and thats what I support atleast

[Kramer]

[quote="Alchemist"]Whats the difference, even if the shayk was from your clan you would still not change..

Once i told a this guy who is pro TFG the ruling of shayk Cumar Farooq and he said well his Hawiye.. Then i told him about Shayk Umal, than he said well his Ogedan. Then Shayk shareef Abdinur, he said well his Sheikhal pretty much Hawiye also. Than i brought him proofs from the scholars of the past and yet he wouldnt accept..

My point is, most somalis made up their mind long time ago..

The truth is the truth..[/quote]

I second to that! well said!
If you are calling wadaads "terrorists" you deserved to be killed!