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Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Daily chitchat on Somali politics.

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The`Republic
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Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby The`Republic » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:41 pm

I have said it a year ago, I have said months ago, and I will say it again a mere couple days left of the "elections." Unless Sharif Hassan somehow manages to make himself an MP for his clan, neither this man nor Sheikh Sharif will come back and especially not in any major position...Speaker, President, Prime Minister, or Ministers.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Notorious13 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:18 pm

:-@

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby KimJongIllest » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:19 pm

Sharif is coming back for another term. Whether anyone likes it or not.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Notorious13 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:22 pm

KimJongIllest wrote:Sharif is coming back for another term. Whether anyone likes it or not.

:up:

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Cirwaaq » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:13 am

There is an alternative perspective to their names not appearing on election lists in that they have already pre-qualified themselves for future posts.

It makes little difference whether they return or they don't, what will be certain is that corruption and Amisom will remain. It is thus futile to have a progressive outlook!

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby The`Republic » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:59 am

Per your corruption statement, Rome was not built in a day. This is Somalia where the "ina adeer" mentality is inherently rooted which is an extreme form of nepotism in of itself. Even during our only historical experience with democracy in the 60's, this is the land and people whose corruption shocked even Africa observers around the world; understand the implication that post-colonial African nations were already showing extreme corruption so a form of corruption shocking even observers of that must have been extraordinary.

Image

And

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And

Image

Etc

The form of corruption which places Somalia now as the "Most Corrupt Country on Earth" is a testament to the failure of a foundation of Somali nomadic culture which evolved in pastorlist conflict but which is now diametrically in conflict with the notions of a modern state mechnisms. This will require much transformation in Somali culture which I believe can be bridged to the modern enlightened constitutionalist idea of a nation-state by leaders who are courageous enough to help break the status quo. So yes, getting rid of people and actors who thrive in such a culture in favor of people who will fight the culture from within is a prelude to a corruption-free Somalia.

As for AMISOM; I see them as a force stabilizer. Somalia with its current clan based culture is incapable of guaranteeing a professional security force which is united in being a pillar of the state rather than a partisan actor for internal factions vying for power. AMISOM guarantees that the short-term security of the rebuilding of the Somali state is independent of internal political movements with its ever shifting and unstable loyalities.

As an example, look at this declassified CIA observation of Somalia at the night before the coup in October 21, 1969 (even then the instability and dependence of Somali security forces on clan factors is apparent):

Image

Calling for a recall of actors fingered in perpetuating the ills of Somali corrupt culture and legitimizing the independence of the security of the Somali state is a rational and progressive stance at this point in time. What you advocate for is an emotive ethno-centrist nationalistic position which is built on subjective notions of a independent Somalia which I would say is quite naive and regressive at this point in time.

I actually call for an extended period of AMISOM sharing responsibilities of security in the Somali state much as Germany for a long time did not have total control over its army. History has shown Somalis cannot be allowed to have total control over their own security until they have established strong and independent balancing institutions.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Cirwaaq » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:10 am

Naivety is expecting Governance from the vultures that have gathered to siphon the Aid IC donates to starving children. These same men will ensure that image of starvation is perpetuated to ensure a continued supply of aid.

Semantics and subjective arguments will not aid Somalia as it is headed into another longer term of ineffectiveness.

Sharif Ahmed and Sharif Hassan do not have to return to politics for them to benefit from politics. They are far more destructive out of the lime light then they are in it. Neither of these men bothers me in the slightest as in comparison at least we know their level of ignorance and lack of Genuine Nationalistic persuasion. If you have faith in the any of the men that will be responsible for the affairs of Somalis Post 20Aug2012 then either you have precognition or you are prepared to accept any circumstance that arises to which you will then merely alter your perspective of events and turn demons into saints.

Either way i am not here to deprive you of any momentary comforts or shatter your dreams. Don't loose sleep over whether the Sharifs will return or not because it is not really relevant in the grand scheme of things.

Nothing has changed since 1991... there is no intended of change!

Not long after these so called elections the entire term of office of the new cabinet will be embroiled in NORTH-SOUTH divide conflicts... I would not envy the sad bastards that will be faced with the inevitable reality of the disintegration of the illusion of a Unitary state. These new leaders are not going to be ones that will bring happiness to the faces of their current subscribers nor will they achieve anything in their term/s in office that is for sure...


Mark my word the so called new president will go down in somali-history in infamy as the one that overseas Dissolution of the 1960 Union.


That is not something to envy!

Who were Presidents during initiation of UNION?
Who will be Presidents during termination of UNION?

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Substance » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:57 am

The parlament is corrupt and the same players are competing and are favours to win it. Abdiweli, Dalxiis and Sakin. Unless we have democratic election, I dont expect much change.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby original dervish » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:27 am

You can continue to pray for the secession of northern somalia for a thousand years, but them green toothed skinny`s aint going nowhere :som: :up: :D

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Shirib » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:22 pm

Shariif Xassan is a MP already.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby The`Republic » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:31 pm

Cirwaaq-

You have already showed to be pro-Sheikh Sharif in another topic, I don't know why you are being disengenious here.

Beyond that it seems you are always rambling like a mad man for the gallery. You have yet to follow any parameters of a debate; always diving around like some ecclaistical monk. Unfortunately I am not a Saint and do not have the patience for your time-consuming non-speech.

Shirib-

That earlier leak was labeled a fake list by the official Selection Committee.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Cirwaaq » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:59 pm

The`Republic wrote:Cirwaaq-

You have already showed to be pro-Sheikh Sharif in another topic, I don't know why you are being disengenious here.

Beyond that it seems you are always rambling like a mad man for the gallery. You have yet to follow any parameters of a debate; always diving around like some ecclaistical monk. Unfortunately I am not a Saint and do not have the patience for your time-consuming non-speech.

Shirib-

That earlier leak was labeled a fake list by the official Selection Committee.


Sigh*

Degree of support is not a linear process to which one's aim is merely exaction of a singular absolute value(individual). If you interpret my vestige of analysis as a rule of measure of my stance you will only render yourself confounded.

Whether you believe it or not i have no vested emotional stock in this process nor it's candidates. I am able to see the pros and cons of each of these insignificant individuals who are mere FALSE HOPE PRIORS. I will leave their adoration and worship to yourself.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby The`Republic » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:55 pm

Lay off the drugs.

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby FAH1223 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:40 am

Sh. Sharif will win

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Re: Neither Sheikh Sharif nor Sharif Hassan will come back.

Postby Cirwaaq » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:52 am

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