SomaliNet Forums

the key points to note in kacaan thread are:

- how events unfolded to those wearing kacaan-tinted glasses i.e. faqashta/ubaxii kacaanka (based, tanker etc)
- how events unfolded to those not wearing kacaan-tinted glasses i.e. everybody else

/close thread

No one is arguing for the rebels. They are a bunch of power-hungry individuals that resemble/d the old regime (Siyad Barre) when it came to suppression, oppression, and violence. Siyad used our national air-force to carpet bomb entire towns in the North, so why point your bloody finger at the violent ethnic cleansing rebels that succeeded him?

The SYL presidents were not dictators. Aden ruled from 60 to 67'. Sharmarke from 67 to Oct 69 before he was assassinated. And Shiekh Mukhtar only from Oct 15 69- 21 oct 69 before he was placed in house arrest and deposed by Siyad Barre.

Siyad Barre ruled from Oct 1969 to Jan 1991 before he himself was ousted. So why in God's Green Earth are you arguing on behalf of a Dictator that eerily resembles the equally power hungry hyenas that came after him?

the key points to note in kacaan thread are:

- how events unfolded to those wearing kacaan-tinted glasses i.e. faqashta/ubaxii kacaanka (based, tanker etc)
- how events unfolded to those not wearing kacaan-tinted glasses i.e. everybody else

/close thread

Horta one thing you will notice with the tactics employed by the apologist of Barres dictatorship is the always always deflect attention away by focusing on things Barre himself engineered. Now this could be the distrust between all Somali tribes due to Barres years of playing one tribe against another, or it could be tribes having the power after the dictator has been over thrown of being able to settle old scores. These and many other factors are the reason why Somalia post Barre could not stay as a single country. The late Afwyenes policies for Somalia were destructive and never long term. The children who benefited from Boli qaran have a right to be angry for losing their priviledged lifestyle, however what they dont have a right for is insulting our inteligence with their mum and dads bedtime storys. The truth is kids your mother and father milked the Somali state which was being fed poor inocent people. You need to deal with that part of your history in your own time.

By the late 1960s, the Somali democracy that had gotten off to such an enthusiastic start just ten years prior, was beginning to crumble. In the 1967 election, due to a complicated web of clan loyalties, the winner was not properly recognized and instead a new secret vote was taken by already elected National Assemblymen (senators).

1969 was a tumultuous year for Somali politics with even more party defections, collusions, betrayals and collaborations than normal. In a major upset the SYL and its various closely allied supporting parties, which had previously enjoyed a near monopoly of 120 out of 123 seats in the Assembly, saw their power slashed to only 46 seats. This resulted in angry accusations of election fraud from the displaced SYLers, and their remaining members still had the clout to do something about it.

By independence, Machiavellian individuals exploiting the newly-founded state’s naivety and lack of experience in government, as well as the gullibility and groupthink mentality of clan-loyalists, had set the groundwork for the culture of institutionalised looting of following decades.

Yes, because Ethiopia after Mengistu was overthrown, Uganda after Idi Amin was overthrown, CAR after Bokassa was deposed, Nigeria after Abacha, Rwanda after Habyarimana was overthrown etc. turned into Somalia.

The "opposition's" inability to stop the killings and govern the nation after overthrowing the government is the sole reason Somalia is in the position it is today. While Meles Zenewi and Aideed overthrew their respective governments within months of each other in 1991, one was PM of a relatively powerful African state until his death 21 years later, and the other died in a sub-sub-sub clan firefight in 1996 while the country was carved up by roving bands of clan militias,gangs and terrorists.

Ethiopia - meles filled the power vacuum and continued began a new era of tigre dictatorship (slightly different to mengistu's amhara dictatorship)
Uganda - after a period of power struggles ex rebel strongman Museveni has held uganda under his iron fist (and somalia too)
Rwanda - somali lookalike kagame has kept his beel in leadership for 13 years and counting

almost all those countries you named went from one dictator to another whereas somalia the people didn't accept another strongman which led to 20+ years of anarchy.

The opposition's inability to consolidate power, establish legitimacy, and fill the power vacuum left by the most poorly thought out coup of all time had more to do with the lack of planning and cooperation by the groups than by the "People". The rebel groups had no agenda save for overthrowing MSB and engaging in revenge motivated military engagements. For an example of this bizarre strategy, despite being nominally allied with the SSDF and SPM, the USC began its terror campaign by attempting to ethnically cleanse Mogadishu of Daroods, then attacked Galkacyo and massacred thousands. A short while later, the USC turned on itself and turned Mogadishu into a wasteland, killing thousands of Hawiyes on both sides. A bit later, a USC faction turned on its Xawadle allies and occupied Hiiraan. Then, they turned on their Rahanweyn allies and occupied them well into the mid 90's, leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands from starvation.

Had Siyaad Barre been unable to consolidate power which ushered in an era of anarchy after he overthrew the democratic government in 1969, would we blame the SYL? Had Meles been unable to effectively establish himself as leader of a united Ethiopia following Mengistu's ouster, would we blame Mengistu? When the "freedom fighters" begin to ethnically cleanse entire cities, loot anything that even looks like it has any value (down to the copper wiring in houses), rape thousands of women, and turn your country into the world's first and foremost failed state, a dictatorship looks rosy in comparison.

I don't recall mentioning democracy, so forgive me if I assume this is a straw man. My argument was quite simple; Somalia is the world's first and only failed state as a direct result of the opposition's inability and apparent unwillingness to stop killing each other. Any attempt to lay the blame of ushering in anarchy at the feet of a leader who was overthrown by an opposition that claimed to be fighting to restore justice is a laughable attempt at deflecting blame when you look at the dozens of fully functioning states that overthrew dictators far, far worse than MSB within roughly the same time period, while Somalia has become the quintessential failed state.

Those calling starving 300000 children to death a "misfortune" should be killed

Baidoa has traditionally served as the breadbasket of Somalia: It is a fertile area with rich soils and a population of practiced farmers, mostly members of the Rahenweyn clan. For the last two years -- a span of four crops in normal times -- the farmers have not been able to plant or harvest. The marauding armies of the deposed President, Mohammed Siad Barre, robbed most farming families of their stockpiles of food, took their camels and often burned their homes.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/31/world ... all&src=pm

You guys are actually comparing the SYL to Siyad Barre

are you daft, you brought up that government, you couldn't have forgotten that already, it gets really boring when discussing serious topics with feeble minded bimbos such as yourself, why don't you just make yourself scarce.

All that anger on behalf of a dead dictator.

People rebelled against the MSB regime for no reason apparently, to say otherwise would be crazy, cause we all know MSB was a saint.

well seeing as how barre locked up two men* who would go onto establish 2 of the main rebel movements, whereby one of these groups were key to his government's toppling, I think he contributed massively to the anarchy that followed his demise.

*one of these men becanme nuts due to his longterm imprisonment