The Government Troops In Somalia

[Murax]

Truth is, these are basically dadka deeganka aka the local clans who's tribal elders were given military uniforms to outfit their tribal militias with. Just replace the warlord with some new figure who is a 'Sargaal hebel' or a 'Col hebel'. The rank and file of these 'ciidamo dawlada' ofcourse are the same people who were in the tribal militias. I am not saying this as a criticism however because You gotta start from somewhere, baby steps. The next step in the process is a bigtime mental rehabilitation to Where they will turn a blind eye and not respond to the calls of 'yaa hebel ah' and instead realize that they are serving a much larger purpose. For now though I cannot blame some of them for doing so, as for 21 years that's all they've known.

[original dervish]

All they had to do was send their militias to a central military camp and then disperse them across many regiments in various regions.

You will never have a professional army if all the units are drawn from the same clan and even subclan.

[Murax]

All they had to do was send their militias to a central military camp and then disperse them across many regiments in various regions..

Nope. If that happened then Somali media, coffeeshops would say that non natives are oppressing the local people, blah blah so its damned if You do damned if You don't. However the problem in My mind is not the tribal makeup of the soldiers, its just that the soldiers have not been trained and rehabilitated enough which is probably due to lack of funding because of the corruption in the higher levels of these administrations. Take the US Army personnel. I find it amazing how patriotic they are and how much they believe in what they're doing. I know Somalia is light years behind but they gotta start somewhere.



I've heard about relatives of mine who pass the Doolow border in the Ethiopia/Gedo border passing Ethiopian soldiers and these guys do not even think to rob or harass You even if You're in a 4x4 and are carrying goods.

[ElfRuler]

No one rain drop believes it caused the flood.

No matter how well trained or educated they are, some Somalis will always answer when someone yells "yaa hebel ah". We forget that we had one of the best trained soldiers in Africa, yet when the civil war came, they were quickly divided along clan lines.

You simply can not trust a qabilist, they are rotten to the core. And sadly, we have a whole nation full of them.

[Murax]

No one rain drop believes it caused the flood.

No matter how well trained or educated they are, some Somalis will always answer when someone yells "yaa hebel ah". We forget that we had one of the best trained soldiers in Africa, yet when the civil war came, they were quickly divided along clan lines. [/img]

Naw I don't think so. Somalis will ditch their clan in a heartbeat if they feel that it won't benefit them. The Gov does not put proper effort into training them, feeding them, equipping them but these guys do get some of that from the clan.



Keep in mind that with the last Gov, the Army was fully intact until about 1988 which is when the Country pretty much collapsed and the Gov was dead. However from '60-88 the Army was a pretty good institution because they at least were taken care of, therefore their loyalty was to the Gov not to clan.

[ElfRuler]

Naw I don't think so. Somalis will ditch their clan in a heartbeat if they feel that it won't benefit them. The Gov does not put proper effort into training them, feeding them, equipping them but these guys do get some of that from the clan.

Keep in mind that with the last Gov, the Army was fully intact until about 1988 which is when the Country pretty much collapsed and the Gov was dead. However from '60-88 the Army was a pretty good institution because they at least were taken care of, therefore their loyalty was to the Gov not to clan.

I see what you mean, it's part of basic human nature to side with whichever function will feed us. However, when are we going to sacrifice our desires for momentary comfort, shelter and food for a principled future build on loyalty to something greater than our stomachs and our qabil? Somalis will always reverberate back to qabil, because it's the easiest route to take. It requires no will power or brain power, just basic instinct and primitive reaction. The government fed them from 60-88, and it took them less than a couple of months to turn their backs on it. What of the training they received, the endless support, and protection and honor provided? When they were truly tested, they failed miserably and showed no loyalty to nation, or principle for that matter. Our government is a reflection of our people. It's not an entity void of human influences. And it's struggling the same way the avg Somali is. Not everything we do should generate instant reward and gratification. So where is the patience and loyalty to one's nation?


These men should not be given the notion that they should uphold their morals, loyalty and principles only when their bellies are being filled. If that's their mentality, then they ought to find their daily meal elsewhere, because an army is build on an ideology greater than oneself. They should be reminded that they have signed up to sacrifice their lives for their nation and people, not abandon the cause the moment the rice pot is empty, abuse their power, and harass the local.

[Murax]

Naw I don't think so. Somalis will ditch their clan in a heartbeat if they feel that it won't benefit them. The Gov does not put proper effort into training them, feeding them, equipping them but these guys do get some of that from the clan.

Keep in mind that with the last Gov, the Army was fully intact until about 1988 which is when the Country pretty much collapsed and the Gov was dead. However from '60-88 the Army was a pretty good institution because they at least were taken care of, therefore their loyalty was to the Gov not to clan.

I see what you mean, it's part of basic human nature to side with whichever function will feed us. However, when are we going to sacrifice our desires for momentary comfort, shelter and food for a principled future build on loyalty to something greater than our stomachs and our qabil? Somalis will always reverberate back to qabil, because it's the easiest route to take. It requires no will power or brain power, just basic instinct and primitive reaction. The government fed them from 60-88, and it took them less than a couple of months to turn their backs on it. What of the training they received, the endless support, and protection and honor provided? When they were truly tested, they failed miserably and showed no loyalty to nation, or principle for that matter. Our government is a reflection of our people. It's not an entity void of human influences. And it's struggling the same way the avg Somali is. Not everything we do should generate instant reward and gratification. So where is the patience and loyalty to one's nation?


These men should not be given the notion that they should uphold their morals, loyalty and principles only when their bellies are being filled. If that's their mentality, then they ought to find their daily meal elsewhere, because an army is build on an ideology greater than oneself. They should be reminded that they have signed up to sacrifice their lives for their nation and people, not abandon the cause the moment the rice pot is empty, abuse their power, and harass the local.

What You mentioned is the ideal, and I agree however You have to temper down Your expectations based on the people You're dealing with. Somalia never had emperors like Ethiopia had Haile Selasie, or the middle east had with the Caliphate or Egypt had with the pharoes. You are talking about a society that was predominately illiterate until the '70s. You're talking about a society that has always been tribal, nomadic folks who are even still relatively new to urbanization. You're talking about folks who are naturally volatile personality wise which gets ten fold worse due to the mass drug addiction to qaad. Frankly the human recourse factor is kinda lacking when it comes to Somalia which is Why I feel it takes a genius, robust and genuine Government to compensate for those shortcomings. Unfortunately We have the complete opposite post civil war, which leads to a perfect storm Where poor human recourse factor of the population gets exacerbated by poor Governance.

[IbnTaymiyyah]

Naw I don't think so. Somalis will ditch their clan in a heartbeat if they feel that it won't benefit them. The Gov does not put proper effort into training them, feeding them, equipping them but these guys do get some of that from the clan.

Keep in mind that with the last Gov, the Army was fully intact until about 1988 which is when the Country pretty much collapsed and the Gov was dead. However from '60-88 the Army was a pretty good institution because they at least were taken care of, therefore their loyalty was to the Gov not to clan.

I see what you mean, it's part of basic human nature to side with whichever function will feed us. However, when are we going to sacrifice our desires for momentary comfort, shelter and food for a principled future build on loyalty to something greater than our stomachs and our qabil? Somalis will always reverberate back to qabil, because it's the easiest route to take. It requires no will power or brain power, just basic instinct and primitive reaction. The government fed them from 60-88, and it took them less than a couple of months to turn their backs on it. What of the training they received, the endless support, and protection and honor provided? When they were truly tested, they failed miserably and showed no loyalty to nation, or principle for that matter. Our government is a reflection of our people. It's not an entity void of human influences. And it's struggling the same way the avg Somali is. Not everything we do should generate instant reward and gratification. So where is the patience and loyalty to one's nation?


These men should not be given the notion that they should uphold their morals, loyalty and principles only when their bellies are being filled. If that's their mentality, then they ought to find their daily meal elsewhere, because an army is build on an ideology greater than oneself. They should be reminded that they have signed up to sacrifice their lives for their nation and people, not abandon the cause the moment the rice pot is empty, abuse their power, and harass the local.

What You mentioned is the ideal, and I agree however You have to temper down Your expectations based on the people You're dealing with. Somalia never had emperors like Ethiopia had Haile Selasie, or the middle east had with the Caliphate or Egypt had with the pharoes. You are talking about a society that was predominately illiterate until the '70s. You're talking about a society that has always been tribal, nomadic folks who are even still relatively new to urbanization. You're talking about folks who are naturally volatile personality wise which gets ten fold worse due to the mass drug addiction to qaad. Frankly the human recourse factor is kinda lacking when it comes to Somalia which is Why I feel it takes a genius, robust and genuine Government to compensate for those shortcomings. Unfortunately We have the complete opposite post civil war, which leads to a perfect storm Where poor human recourse factor of the population gets exacerbated by poor Governance.

You should go back to school