Welcome to SomaliNet Forums, a friendly and gigantic Somali centric active community. Login to hide this block

You are currently viewing this page as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, ask questions, educate others, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many, many other features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join SomaliNet forums today! Please note that registered members with over 50 posts see no ads whatsoever! Are you new to SomaliNet? These forums with millions of posts are just one section of a much larger site. Just visit the front page and use the top links to explore deep into SomaliNet oasis, Somali singles, Somali business directory, Somali job bank and much more. Click here to login. If you need to reset your password, click here. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of Talks

Daily chitchat on Somali politics.

Moderator: Moderators

OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE
User avatar
sahal80
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 21186
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:49 pm

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby sahal80 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:52 pm

Its expected the talks to take place on monday after the new cabinet was formed

Not sure if abdikarim guleed will lead the somali govts delegation this time though he is among the new cabinet

Khalid

What are the agendas?

From both sides sahal Hassan sheikh said that former agreements will be signed and there will be new topics on the agenda

The Somaliland Foreign Minister said the same that there will be new topics discussed

Abdikarim will be back as minister so i believe he will lead it
Ok, thanks for the info. May be the somaliland side wants to involve in the talks with other circles from "the somalias internatinal partners". To implement the agreements while the somali govt wants to keep it within turkey.
Last edited by sahal80 on Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
samatar133
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2334
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:11 am

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby samatar133 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:54 pm

Abdikariin, sxb in negotiations which involve disagreeing parts, one side can not always dictate the results if it does not have a huge leverage on the other side.
Somaliland does not have a huge leverage on Somalia at moment but I am confident of the diplomatic skills of our negotiating team :up:

hydrogen
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:44 pm
Location: Leicester

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby hydrogen » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:58 pm

If Somaliland was to breakaway, it would be better for Isaaqs and Hawiye that they take Dhulos and Warsengali with them. More lands for the Isaaq Somaliland and less Darood for the Hawiye Somalia. What interest does Mogadishu have in Daroods being 'returned' to Somalia and Somaliland breaking away. If Somaliland decided to stay eventually, it's a win-win for Hawiye and Isaaq, if Somaliland decided to breakaway it's a win-win for Hawiye and Isaaq.

User avatar
Khalid Ali
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 32010
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Suldaan Emperior Gacanyarihisa

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Khalid Ali » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:07 pm

Abdikariin, sxb in negotiations which involve disagreeing parts, one side can not always dictate the results if it does not have a huge leverage on the other side.
Somaliland does not have a huge leverage on Somalia at moment but I am confident of the diplomatic skills of our negotiating team :up:

Abdikarim wanted the talks to be concluded real fast there are allot of things that come to weight when it comes to these talks in the first 3 rounds the trust and a framework of understanding was being established , remember 22 years of no Talks no agreements. In those 22 years we were complete strangers. Leverage is important but both sides seems to be very equal on sides. Somalia having the Legitimacy of the international community transition period ended , but no proper sovereignty over their claimed territory. Somaliland not having the international legitimacy of the IC but having total sovereign control well up to 94% of their claimed territory. The 2 seems to be a bit parallel for now. Matt bryden explained it very well in an article he wrote about Somalia and Somaliland and that both sides have to abide their constitution and cant compromise on major issues i believe he was right on that. The 2 sides should create a win win Somalia helps Somaliland with an official exit way out. And Somaliland will completely support the Somali federal government and to an extend that they will even deploy security forces Somaliland has capable forces well trained that can be deployed to any region of Somalia i think that's a fair compromise. This was discussed last year 2012 but Somalia came with a ridiculous time frame for a UN supervised referendum on Independence in 10 years time :lol: The hairy Arabs wanted this as some said.
Last edited by Khalid Ali on Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sahal80
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 21186
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:49 pm

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby sahal80 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:09 pm

If Somaliland was to breakaway, it would be better for Isaaqs and Hawiye that they take Dhulos and Warsengali with them. More lands for the Isaaq Somaliland and less Darood for the Hawiye Somalia. What interest does Mogadishu have in Daroods being 'returned' to Somalia and Somaliland breaking away. If Somaliland decided to stay eventually, it's a win-win for Hawiye and Isaaq, if Somaliland decided to breakaway it's a win-win for Hawiye and Isaaq.
They said, if somalia was to be divided based on the old colonial borders, this will divide only one clan and will not damage xamar and hargeysa but the xamar political elites want a north-south power-sharing not two countries, this is totally rejected by the hargeysa politicians who were supporting this in the 60s not nowadays.
Last edited by sahal80 on Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oxidant
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3235
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:52 am

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Oxidant » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:11 pm

I don't really enjoy going into Somali politics but I will raise one point:

The Somaliland govt will never let go of its claims of the eastern regions if Somaliland wants recognition internationally. Somaliland needs all of the British Somaliland territory, otherwise there is no case. This is why the Silanyo administration and past administrations have always kept the same stance. Also Mogadishu will ironically accept Somaliland in its entirety break off rather than the Isaaq and Gadabursi areas alone. Mogadishu and the international community will be less sympathetic to the latter option because it dismisses the British Somaliland argument. Silanyo knows that if he lets go of eastern area claims than his govt and country will be labelled as a clan project.


I am,

Abdi "Somaliland will never let go of its claims" Johnson
The world apart of Somalia’s adversaries such as Kenya and Ethiopia support Somaliland. The UN, AU, Arab League, EU, China and America are against it. It makes no sense for 3 national Somali states to exist Somalia, Somaliland and Djibouti. And what if Ogaden gets it independence, which are possibly 4 Somali states in the future. The world isn’t going to allow this to happen.

It clear that Western Puntland is Pro-Somalia wants to be part of the union; Somaliland has no legs to stand on. There is no case for secessionism but mindless tribal hatred.

User avatar
Khalid Ali
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 32010
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Suldaan Emperior Gacanyarihisa

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Khalid Ali » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:15 pm

If Somaliland was to breakaway, it would be better for Isaaqs and Hawiye that they take Dhulos and Warsengali with them. More lands for the Isaaq Somaliland and less Darood for the Hawiye Somalia. What interest does Mogadishu have in Daroods being 'returned' to Somalia and Somaliland breaking away. If Somaliland decided to stay eventually, it's a win-win for Hawiye and Isaaq, if Somaliland decided to breakaway it's a win-win for Hawiye and Isaaq.
They said, if somalia was to be divided based on the old colonial borders, this will divide only one clan and will not damage xamar and hargeysa but the xamar political elites want a north-south power-sharing not two countries, this is rejected by the hargeysa politicians who was supporting this in the 60s not nowadays.

Sahal you are xogo ogaal even the SNM wanted a confederate USC and SNM power sharing ,the Somalilanders in the sixties wanted that 2. But today the times have changed entire generations grew up under a Somaliland , Siilaayo and co cannot sell this to the people. The only way they be able to sell this to the Somaliland people this north and south confederation if it concluded with a UN supervised referendum on independence on reasonable period of time. But the Mogadishu Elites do not want to play that card so it remains a very sensitive issue for both sides.

grandpakhalif
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 30666
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:32 am
Location: Darul Kufr
Contact:

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby grandpakhalif » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:17 pm

its good we need to support SL seperation to allow more lucrative oil and uranium resources revenue to reach the south, let's focus on the south the breadbasket of the somalia and support jubbaland and rahanweyn state.

User avatar
Khalid Ali
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 32010
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Suldaan Emperior Gacanyarihisa

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Khalid Ali » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:25 pm

I don't really enjoy going into Somali politics but I will raise one point:

The Somaliland govt will never let go of its claims of the eastern regions if Somaliland wants recognition internationally. Somaliland needs all of the British Somaliland territory, otherwise there is no case. This is why the Silanyo administration and past administrations have always kept the same stance. Also Mogadishu will ironically accept Somaliland in its entirety break off rather than the Isaaq and Gadabursi areas alone. Mogadishu and the international community will be less sympathetic to the latter option because it dismisses the British Somaliland argument. Silanyo knows that if he lets go of eastern area claims than his govt and country will be labelled as a clan project.


I am,

Abdi "Somaliland will never let go of its claims" Johnson
The world apart of Somalia’s adversaries such as Kenya and Ethiopia support Somaliland. The UN, AU, Arab League, EU, China and America are against it. It makes no sense for 3 national Somali states to exist Somalia, Somaliland and Djibouti. And what if Ogaden gets it independence, which are possibly 4 Somali states in the future. The world isn’t going to allow this to happen.

It clear that Western Puntland is Pro-Somalia wants to be part of the union; Somaliland has no legs to stand on. There is no case for secessionism but mindless tribal hatred.


The Arab league is against somaliland for obvious reasons they want to use Somalis against Ethiopians particularly Egypt and Sacuuudi Arabia. But you are making a grave mistake the United states is not against Somaliland nor is the European Union they have repeatedly they will welcome Somaliland independence if the African union gives its blessing , The US and the Europeans remain very indifferent , what the hell is western Puntland :lol: :lol:
According to you Ogaden has a case and Somaliland doesnt :lol:
Caruurtani waba ruwayaad

When it comes to recognition, we were hoping that the African Union would make a definitive statement on this, but unfortunately, the African Union has not made a definitive statement and that has delayed our taking of a position on this matter. One of the things we are considering now is to have some sort of diplomatic representation or office in Somaliland, but I am not sure whether we would be able to do it in the remaining six months of our administration.
Egypt power is diminishing in the region the only Arab league state this extremly opposed to Somaliland independence is Egypt, But the US is very neutral on Somalilandt the same with many Europeans.

User avatar
Khalid Ali
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 32010
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Suldaan Emperior Gacanyarihisa

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Khalid Ali » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:26 pm

its good we need to support SL seperation to allow more lucrative oil and uranium resources revenue to reach the south, let's focus on the south the breadbasket of the somalia and support jubbaland and rahanweyn state.

:up: :up: well said Grandpa

Tonymontana11
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:52 pm

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Tonymontana11 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:29 pm

waste of time.

User avatar
samatar133
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2334
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:11 am

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby samatar133 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:44 pm

Abdikariin, sxb in negotiations which involve disagreeing parts, one side can not always dictate the results if it does not have a huge leverage on the other side.
Somaliland does not have a huge leverage on Somalia at moment but I am confident of the diplomatic skills of our negotiating team :up:

Abdikarim wanted the talks to be concluded real fast there are allot of things that come to weight when it comes to these talks in the first 3 rounds the trust and a framework of understanding was being established , remember 22 years of no Talks no agreements. In those 22 years we were complete strangers. Leverage is important but both sides seems to be very equal on sides. Somalia having the Legitimacy of the international community transition period ended , but no proper sovereignty over their claimed territory. Somaliland not having the international legitimacy of the IC but having total sovereign control well up to 94% of their claimed territory. The 2 seems to be a bit parallel for now. Matt bryden explained it very well in an article he wrote about Somalia and Somaliland and that both sides have to abide their constitution and cant compromise on major issues i believe he was right on that. The 2 sides should create a win win Somalia helps Somaliland with an official exit way out. And Somaliland will completely support the Somali federal government and to an extend that they will even deploy security forces Somaliland has capable forces well trained that can be deployed to any region of Somalia i think that's a fair compromise. This was discussed last year 2012 but Somalia came with a ridiculous time frame for a UN supervised referendum on Independence in 10 years time :lol: The hairy Arabs wanted this as some said.
khalid, sxb I only wish people in villa Somalia were rational enough to understand that the kind of the union they dream is not possible and never going to happen. Somaliland has always reassured the somali people every where that it proposes a better form of union for them. A union where free somali countries which include Djibouti can form a union similar to that of European union where all barriers of trade and migration are lifted and common currency and defense policies are formed. All of the benefits of union harnessed where its destructive side kept in check through sovereignty.
At the end I am hopeful that Somalia will come to its senses and accept the kind of compromise and cooperation you mentioned above which has always been the position of Somaliland too and which will undoubtedly benefit every Somali on earth.
Last edited by samatar133 on Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bermooda
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1675
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:23 pm

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Bermooda » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:46 pm

Somaliland should try a temporary option. If I were Somaliland, I would demand Somalia to recognize Somaliland as a special administrative region like Hong Kong but with no veto from Beijing. Somaliland wants foreign investment and access to more global markets. For the time being, I would force SFG to give them that before even sitting down to talk. You should say "at the moment, we will not discuss Somaliland separation but give you must formally and officially give us status that will make us more independent from you but we will accept being apart of Somalia officially". And then from there work on independence recognition

That will prolong the talks even more for years and years to come thats not smart from a Somaliland point of view maybe for Somalia. Somaliland already has other methods such as the SDC to win over some investments in the country its a longer process but it works for the time being. Somaliland is fighting that its independence is recognized by the international community not to fight for short term economic incentives , i believe your strategy will just make things more difficult once we accept Somalias sovereignty or recognize Somalia sovereignty to reverse it will be very difficult. No we must uphold our independence declaration, thats the only way to reach the end goal.
Khalid if you think Mogadishu is just going to say here Hargeisa have your freedom then you might as well give up. Your biggest opponent is not the Prez and his cabinet but the independent parliamentarian veto holders who they report 2 vice versa.

If you can convince them to even give you that status then it will be the biggest win :sland: has ever achieved towards independence. Until then this talk will be nothing more than for the sake of talking.

User avatar
abdikarim86
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12077
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:21 am
Location: Bristol

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby abdikarim86 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:46 pm

Abdikariin, sxb in negotiations which involve disagreeing parts, one side can not always dictate the results if it does not have a huge leverage on the other side.
Somaliland does not have a huge leverage on Somalia at moment but I am confident of the diplomatic skills of our negotiating team :up:
Fair enough ..we shall see what comes of it after this round :up:

User avatar
Khalid Ali
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 32010
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:03 am
Location: Suldaan Emperior Gacanyarihisa

Re: Somalia& S/land officials fly to Istanbul 5th round of T

Postby Khalid Ali » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:54 pm

Khalid if you think Mogadishu is just going to say here Hargeisa have your freedom then you might as well give up. Your biggest opponent is not the Prez and his cabinet but the independent parliamentarian veto holders who they report 2 vice versa.

If you can convince them to even give you that status then it will be the biggest win :sland: has ever achieved towards independence. Until then this talk will be nothing more than for the sake of talking.
Sorry but the parliament of Somalia is a joke they were handpicked by elders not even elected by the people the tribally divided parliament that ousted saacid can be bribed , before we pass a motion at your parliament first thing first Somaliland and Somalia government must agree to separate than a motion can be presented to your parliament the dirty woqoyis can be bought the .5 can be bought to. The rahanweyn to this comes to the Hawiye and darood the darood will overwhelmingly reject it and the Hawiye will be a big surprise are the Hawiye parliamentarians controlled by Qatar?. I dont believe The parliament of Somalia is controlled by hairy Arabs :lol: if thats the case Somalia is screwed


OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE

Hello, Has your question been answered on this page? We hope yes. If not, you can start a new thread and post your question(s). It is free to join. You can also search our over a million pages (just scroll up and use our site-wide search box) or browse the forums.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Politics - General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests