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pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

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sahal80
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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby sahal80 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:39 am


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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby RovingMadness » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:22 pm

Either Your too slow or choose to ignore what i just said. Mogadishu will not be like London a City, First of all Banaadir is not just Xamar as villages surround it. The Constitution will be amended to allow one Province to form a Federal state and Mudug will not be fully incorporated into the Central State.
Both of you are wrong.

The "special status" the constitution talks about with regards to Banadir is that the region is given three options, of which one includes the option to form its own Federal State. This is the Special Status the constitution talks about which is unique and only meant for Banadir. So the constitution won't be amended to make this accommodation because it's already in the constitution. If you go back to the debates from 2004, it was the Darod that were campaigning for Banadir to form its own federal state with a federa district located within the region. They did so to deny Banadir joining Shabelle regions. In 2015, the same mentality is haunting the darods and it's being used against them.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby RovingMadness » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:28 pm

Here is the thing, Central State will be 1.5 states, there is no way it can have equal representation with Koonfur Galbeed for example with 3 states. Even when building the Upper House, I don't think it will be given equal measure. And if you can have 1.5 states as a federal member state, Koonfur Galbeed may chose to split into two and increase its voting power. As for Mudug, the north will get half of the representatives in the Upper House under Puntland. There needs to be a rethinking of how Upper House seats are apportioned.

If moving the capital is not on the table, then Benadir must stay as a Federal territory, sort of like Abuja or Washington D.C, with some representation, but not equal to federal member states.
Washington DC is a federal district gifted to the federal government by Maryland. Same principle will be applied in Somalia in which Banadir gifts a federal district to the federal government. A region of 3.5 million people can not become hostages simply because some dude in Nugaal thinks so. No way, jose.

The London view will not work in Somalia because Somalia is a clan based nations. Land belong to clans.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby thegoodshepherd » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:51 pm

I don't think you read the constitution, it simply says that the matter of Benadir remains to be solved. Besides, I never argued that Benadir would have no federal representation, just that it will not have equal representation. Such an attempt upsets the careful balance of federal states in Somalia.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby sahal80 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:36 pm

Either Your too slow or choose to ignore what i just said. Mogadishu will not be like London a City, First of all Banaadir is not just Xamar as villages surround it. The Constitution will be amended to allow one Province to form a Federal state and Mudug will not be fully incorporated into the Central State.
Both of you are wrong.

The "special status" the constitution talks about with regards to Banadir is that the region is given three options, of which one includes the option to form its own Federal State. This is the Special Status the constitution talks about which is unique and only meant for Banadir. So the constitution won't be amended to make this accommodation because it's already in the constitution. If you go back to the debates from 2004, it was the Darod that were campaigning for Banadir to form its own federal state with a federa district located within the region. They did so to deny Banadir joining Shabelle regions. In 2015, the same mentality is haunting the darods and it's being used against them.
what your talking about is not the constitution itself rather the consultation draft wich was published prior to it ( 30 july 2010)

at this time banadir had a chance to....

now you got two articles

1-article 9 who states the status of the capital city shall be determined by the federation commission and the two houses of the parliament

basically says it up to the federal institutions!

2- article 48 wich is against hiiraan is also against banadir becoming a regional administration of its own

the federation commission has revealed reviewing the case of mogadishu so i expect them to come up with some solution

its why the speaker was objecting banadir joining hiiraan and middle shabelle or nick kay saying it needs an inclusive agreement

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitu ... Commission

this guy whos wacaysle abgaal has written a lot about this issue and in this old article he seems fillowing the issue from the start

http://www.hiiraan.com/op4/2012/july/25 ... malia.aspx


osob is saying the article 48 will be changed so that lsome regions like mudug can be divided

I said I dont see this bc it will be applied to hiiraan and banadir too

these matters can only be decided by the federation commission and we have to wait its decision.

I dont know the fate of mogadishu but one thing that has been through so far is having a moyoral elections

this takes out the option of clan- power sharing in the capital wich is suggested by certain clan and region.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby RovingMadness » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:36 pm

Either Your too slow or choose to ignore what i just said. Mogadishu will not be like London a City, First of all Banaadir is not just Xamar as villages surround it. The Constitution will be amended to allow one Province to form a Federal state and Mudug will not be fully incorporated into the Central State.
Both of you are wrong.

The "special status" the constitution talks about with regards to Banadir is that the region is given three options, of which one includes the option to form its own Federal State. This is the Special Status the constitution talks about which is unique and only meant for Banadir. So the constitution won't be amended to make this accommodation because it's already in the constitution. If you go back to the debates from 2004, it was the Darod that were campaigning for Banadir to form its own federal state with a federa district located within the region. They did so to deny Banadir joining Shabelle regions. In 2015, the same mentality is haunting the darods and it's being used against them.
what your talking about is not the constitution itself rather the consultation draft wich was published prior to it ( 30 july 2010)

at this time banadir had a chance to....

now you got two articles

1-article 9 who states the status of the capital city shall be determined by the federation commission and the two houses of the parliament

basically says it up to the federal institutions!

2- article 48 wich is against hiiraan is also against banadir becoming a regional administration of its own

the federation commission has revealed reviewing the case of mogadishu so i expect them to come up with some solution

its why the speaker was objecting banadir joining hiiraan and middle shabelle or nick kay saying it needs an inclusive agreement

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitu ... Commission

this guy whos wacaysle abgaal has written a lot about this issue and in this old article he seems fillowing the issue from the start

http://www.hiiraan.com/op4/2012/july/25 ... malia.aspx


osob is saying the article 48 will be changed so that lsome regions like mudug can be divided

I said I dont see this bc it will be applied to hiiraan and banadir too

these matters can only be decided by the federation commission and we have to wait its decision.

I dont know the fate of mogadishu but one thing that has been through so far is having a moyoral elections

this takes out the option of clan- power sharing in the capital wich is suggested by certain clan and region.
Decision on Banadir will be made based on the 3-options. It's implied.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby RovingMadness » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:37 pm

I don't think you read the constitution, it simply says that the matter of Benadir remains to be solved. Besides, I never argued that Benadir would have no federal representation, just that it will not have equal representation. Such an attempt upsets the careful balance of federal states in Somalia.
Banadir has 3.5 million people. It should in fact get more representatives than any other region since no region even comes anywhere close.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby thegoodshepherd » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:05 pm

The entire population of Somalia is ~11 million. That is Somalia including Somaliland.
If Benadir is 3.5 million that means it is 35% of Somalia's population :lol:
This is impossible because the total urbanized population is about 40%. Meaning that all other urban areas combined are 5% of the total population.

Benadir is about 1.5 million, about 9-10% of Somalia's population.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby RovingMadness » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:36 pm

The entire population of Somalia is ~11 million. That is Somalia including Somaliland.
If Benadir is 3.5 million that means it is 35% of Somalia's population :lol:
This is impossible because the total urbanized population is about 40%. Meaning that all other urban areas combined are 5% of the total population.

Benadir is about 1.5 million, about 9-10% of Somalia's population.
You are in for a rude awekening

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby FarhanYare » Fri May 01, 2015 3:47 am

Here is the thing, Central State will be 1.5 states, there is no way it can have equal representation with Koonfur Galbeed for example with 3 states. Even when building the Upper House, I don't think it will be given equal measure. And if you can have 1.5 states as a federal member state, Koonfur Galbeed may chose to split into two and increase its voting power. As for Mudug, the north will get half of the representatives in the Upper House under Puntland. There needs to be a rethinking of how Upper House seats are apportioned.

If moving the capital is not on the table, then Benadir must stay as a Federal territory, sort of like Abuja or Washington D.C, with some representation, but not equal to federal member states.
Washington DC is a federal district gifted to the federal government by Maryland. Same principle will be applied in Somalia in which Banadir gifts a federal district to the federal government. A region of 3.5 million people can not become hostages simply because some dude in Nugaal thinks so. No way, jose.

The London view will not work in Somalia because Somalia is a clan based nations. Land belong to clans.
In an effort to leave you with one state, this is the well reasoned counter argument put forth: you can't form central state with one state iyo nuus, instead galgaduud should go with hiiraan and shabellada dhexe.What happened to the nuus you might ask? the reply is: '' we are majority in there so we will take it or you can add it to the three regions mentioned". Banadir is the capital the constitution says it shall remain unfederated bla bla never mind it being a third of the country's population. Clutching at the straws baa meesha ka socoto. :)


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