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pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

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Osob101
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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby Osob101 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:32 pm

Sahal

I dont even know why your soo bothered with all these Federal states. I can confirm to you not to worry. Banaadir will becomes its own Federal state as the constitution will be amended to change the 2 and more state rule. The Biggest obstacle to change that Law was Puntland and now they seem to have changed their mind because of the Mudug Saga. What am interested in though is how this going to affect Khatuumo.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby thegoodshepherd » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:45 am

Actually dropping the 2 or more states rule would be to the advantage of P/L and J/L. Because in this case representation would be based on how many gobols you have. Such a system favors P/L & J/L. The best thing would be to give Benadir representation in the upper house and allow it to keep its special status.

Remember that after all Benadir is a gobol, like Bakool or Middle Juba, either you accept the special status or it is treated like another gobol.
:MJ:

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby Osob101 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:02 am

Actually dropping the 2 or more states rule would be to the advantage of P/L and J/L. Because in this case representation would be based on how many gobols you have. Such a system favors P/L & J/L. The best thing would be to give Benadir representation in the upper house and allow it to keep its special status.

Remember that after all Benadir is a gobol, like Bakool or Middle Juba, either you accept the special status or it is treated like another gobol.
:MJ:
You must have not been reading the Constitution. Representation in the Upper House will be based on Federal state which means all federal states will get the same number, While Lower house will most likely be based on population census :lol:

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby GAMES » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:18 am

Actually dropping the 2 or more states rule would be to the advantage of P/L and J/L. Because in this case representation would be based on how many gobols you have. Such a system favors P/L & J/L. The best thing would be to give Benadir representation in the upper house and allow it to keep its special status.

Remember that after all Benadir is a gobol, like Bakool or Middle Juba, either you accept the special status or it is treated like another gobol.
:MJ:
You must have not been reading the Constitution. Representation in the Upper House will be based on Federal state which means all federal states will get the same number, While Lower house will most likely be based on population census :lol:
THIS.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby sahal80 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:29 am

Sahal

I dont even know why your soo bothered with all these Federal states. I can confirm to you not to worry. Banaadir will becomes its own Federal state as the constitution will be amended to change the 2 and more state rule. The Biggest obstacle to change that Law was Puntland and now they seem to have changed their mind because of the Mudug Saga. What am interested in though is how this going to affect Khatuumo.
lol aint worry since the last weeks im just posting the official news

I dont care about xamar status as long its not part of our state but the reason mudug is joining the central state is for political equation

the ic wants the two main clans to have an equal states in the upper house, its called 2.5: jl pl vs cs h&m

half is the d&m

this is for vision 2016 agenda

mogadishu will be the last in this agenda and I expect to be like london

after that there will be some settlement with the northern region wich includes 5 clans

mudug being part of central state is official even pl knows it.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby Osob101 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:59 am

Either Your too slow or choose to ignore what i just said. Mogadishu will not be like London a City, First of all Banaadir is not just Xamar as villages surround it. The Constitution will be amended to allow one Province to form a Federal state and Mudug will not be fully incorporated into the Central State.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby CaliQase » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:02 am

Either Your too slow or choose to ignore what i just said. Mogadishu will not be like London a City, First of all Banaadir is not just Xamar as villages surround it. The Constitution will be amended to allow one Province to form a Federal state and Mudug will not be fully incorporated into the Central State.
So you are saying we have to let go N. Mudug for Banaadir to become a federal State?

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby Osob101 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:28 am

Either Your too slow or choose to ignore what i just said. Mogadishu will not be like London a City, First of all Banaadir is not just Xamar as villages surround it. The Constitution will be amended to allow one Province to form a Federal state and Mudug will not be fully incorporated into the Central State.
So you are saying we have to let go N. Mudug for Banaadir to become a federal State?
Let go of something that is not under your control?

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby CaliQase » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:31 am

I wouldn't say under control but Mudug is one region, so both the North and the South wants to drag the other where it wants to join. Am I wrong?

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby MJ360 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:02 am

Amending the Constitution guide for Dummies:

Any amendment to the Provisional Constitution shall be prepared by an Independent Provisional Constitution Review and Implementation Commission. This shall be an independent legal drafting expert committee consisting of five (5) members. The Independent Provisional Constitution Review and Implementation Commission shall work under the supervision and guidance of the Provisional Constitution Review and Implementation Oversight Committee, which shall be a parliamentary committee consisting of an equal number of members of the two Houses of the Federal Parliament, and one additional member per existing Federal Member State. Any amendment prepared by the two committees must be approved by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the total membership of both Houses of the Federal Parliament – see Articles 133, 134.

The constitutional amendments, however, only come into effect after the endorsement of the draft final constitution through a public referendum by the Somali people – see Article 136.

Thus, changing it is not as easy as a walk in the park only hopeless folk think so.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby Osob101 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:36 am

Amending the Constitution guide for Dummies:

Any amendment to the Provisional Constitution shall be prepared by an Independent Provisional Constitution Review and Implementation Commission. This shall be an independent legal drafting expert committee consisting of five (5) members. The Independent Provisional Constitution Review and Implementation Commission shall work under the supervision and guidance of the Provisional Constitution Review and Implementation Oversight Committee, which shall be a parliamentary committee consisting of an equal number of members of the two Houses of the Federal Parliament, and one additional member per existing Federal Member State. Any amendment prepared by the two committees must be approved by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the total membership of both Houses of the Federal Parliament – see Articles 133, 134.

The constitutional amendments, however, only come into effect after the endorsement of the draft final constitution through a public referendum by the Somali people – see Article 136.

Thus, changing it is not as easy as a walk in the park only hopeless folk think so.
The Key part just highlighted for you. Now ill give you the chance to think hard why i did that :lol:

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby sahal80 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:46 am

Either Your too slow or choose to ignore what i just said. Mogadishu will not be like London a City, First of all Banaadir is not just Xamar as villages surround it. The Constitution will be amended to allow one Province to form a Federal state and Mudug will not be fully incorporated into the Central State.
just two days ago nick kay has told the former abgaal politicians that banadir having an special status is up to the somalis and needs for a wide national consultation

since the people r represented by their institutions it will be the boundaries and federation comission who will decide on the fate of banadir

so basically its not up to a clan unless you give up the capital then your free.....


i have read their reportedly draft of consultations but its still just an idea

theres some option that seems for sure and was pushed by mungab so far, its banadir having mayoral elections just like london

having said that, their will be some kind of social contract as the formation of the central state, hiiraan and middle shabelle just like many other regions will pave the way of xamar being controlled by its native abgaals specially wacboudhan

then you got murursade and reer xamar who will be in the backseat

the idea of two clan-based states vs other two states in the upper house is mine and i can repost my old threads, however I recently came across this old thread of somalionline stating the same ideas

his analysis on banadir is interesting

as for mudug, currently-theoratically-its part of central state

but as a federal state it will depend on the boundaries commission

the somali constitution does not state clan based states so the question of clan based federalism is dangerous to the federalism option itself!

a region cannot be divided on clan bases it has to join one side

for political equation, mudug was backed to join the central state; 2.5 formula




https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... G6OBQ9jc3g

http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/ ... st-1917480

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby Osob101 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:14 am

Sorry Now for a fact i know your very slow.

First Nicholas Kay has never said Banaadir can be a city state or not. His mandate prohibits any UN personnel to make a direct suggestion to how a region will be formed and if you like i can share you the clause in his contract that says that.

Second the constitution has not been finalized and as such can be played with. The only time where constitutional amendments become difficult is when its finally approved and that requires a nation wide Vote

Third other than Puntland every other Federal state formed is considered an Interim Federal state meaning, Borders, Parliament etc etc are all Interim and can dissolved.

Fourth: Mudug is not considered a part of Central State theoretically or in reality which you wish for, even your beloved son Xasan sheikh swallowed his pride and admitted that Mudug will end up being divided.

Finally you seem to always just want your wishes to come true while the reality on the ground is different. Mark my words the draft constitution will be amended to be reflect the changes and the biggest. This is Somalia my friend not your Scandinavian welfare house. Its either Eat or be Eaten :lol:

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby sahal80 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:49 am

Sorry Now for a fact i know your very slow.

First Nicholas Kay has never said Banaadir can be a city state or not. His mandate prohibits any UN personnel to make a direct suggestion to how a region will be formed and if you like i can share you the clause in his contract that says that.

Second the constitution has not been finalized and as such can be played with. The only time where constitutional amendments become difficult is when its finally approved and that requires a nation wide Vote

Third other than Puntland every other Federal state formed is considered an Interim Federal state meaning, Borders, Parliament etc etc are all Interim and can dissolved.

Fourth: Mudug is not considered a part of Central State theoretically or in reality which you wish for, even your beloved son Xasan sheikh swallowed his pride and admitted that Mudug will end up being divided.

Finally you seem to always just want your wishes to come true while the reality on the ground is different. Mark my words the draft constitution will be amended to be reflect the changes and the biggest. This is Somalia my friend not your Scandinavian welfare house. Its either Eat or be Eaten :lol:
lol

how pl is a federal state when the bounderies commission hasnt started its work yet?

pl is not a federal state yet rather a semi- autonomous region and its borders will depend on the settlement with other regions!

however they say its the closest one to become a federal state since it already exists and controls its land

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 2Ht_FT3FGg

nick kays tasks r federalism, human rights, security bla bla

hes mandated to help the govt implement the vision2016

not on what the somali institutions see

which is why he clashed with the govt claiming the change of a pm will halt the process....wich hes mandated on....

so, hes there to coordinate between the somali groups when it comes to federalism

he supports the mechanism and the constitution(signed by all somalis)uch as the federation commission and meets the speaker over these issues in order to implement them quicker

as for banadir status, he actually ignored it and tweeted only about hiiraan and middle shabelle lol

its the media who says he told them that this needs an inclussive somali decision

http://soomaalidamaanta.net/cali-maxame ... -federated

http://www.garoweonline.com/page/show/p ... ederatedas for mudug pls listen to this: it depends on the boundries commission just like banadir!

change the constitution or not its not the question other wise hiran and many others will be a standalone regions!
Last edited by sahal80 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: pm: next state is hiiraan iyo middle shabelle

Postby thegoodshepherd » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:13 am

Here is the thing, Central State will be 1.5 states, there is no way it can have equal representation with Koonfur Galbeed for example with 3 states. Even when building the Upper House, I don't think it will be given equal measure. And if you can have 1.5 states as a federal member state, Koonfur Galbeed may chose to split into two and increase its voting power. As for Mudug, the north will get half of the representatives in the Upper House under Puntland. There needs to be a rethinking of how Upper House seats are apportioned.

If moving the capital is not on the table, then Benadir must stay as a Federal territory, sort of like Abuja or Washington D.C, with some representation, but not equal to federal member states.


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