What if Somali FMS functioned Like the UAE?

[sahal80]

This is an extension of my informative topic about the Gulf in the link down below
https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 0&t=402626


This is Omani state within the UAE and the reason is that its tribe did not join the UAE federation but rather joined Oman which they share tribal ties. inside this enclave you have an UAE town part of Sharjah! its like biimaal town joining Djibouti based on their Dir connections. Somalia needs to learn from the tribal system of the Emirates and the Gulf in General where each tribe rules itself. enough with your fake wadaniyad bullshit we cannot share xukun and the proof is what happening now in Mogadishu. Oman is the Ethiopia of the Gulf as it claims that the UAE historically is part of it
Omanis of this State are about 2000 but there are 1000 expatriates.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madha

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahwa



Cars( probably expatriates)are in line at the petrol station in the omani enclave for being cheaper. oman has one of the strongest currencies it's Riyal equals 2.6 U.S. dollars

[DaahirMursal]

Somalia is too destitute to even think they can do something like the Arab league of states (Qatar, UAE, etc).

They were saved by mountains of oil residing in their territory. Somalia is, however, a semi-arid barren desert with meager resources and a complete collapse of state.

[sahal80]

The good side of Hassan Sheikh's administration is that it is decentralized and strengthens the role of the FMS. The NCC is similar to the UAE's Federal Supreme Council and Mogadishu is simiar to Abu Dhabi. The only wrong thing is the presence of 3 Abgaals and two OGs and this is a bad precedent that was established by Farmaajo to the extent that he wronged his own clan wich is why you have two OGs.




of course some will be more powerful. this is the tribal background of the more powerful abu dhabi and Dubai These two have the right to veto any national policy so if they don't agree to anything, it will not be passed on. they hail from the Bani Yas tribe
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani_Yas

[noer]

ustad sahal advocating stealth secessionism. isn't it bad enough wit magertenland having their own independent militias, central bank, n foreign policy? my nigga wants hirshabele do the same

there is a big difference between somaliland n the ex italian colony's stealth secessionists. somaliland is the founder of somali union. the elder state. matter of fact somalia the ex italian colony was technically supposed to be UN trusteeship until the autumn of '60. really. no bull. somaliland on the other hand. fully sovereign state. besides the ex italian colony never signed somaliland's marriage contract. then somaliland annulled the unsigned marriage in '91. no bull

on the other hand. magertenland. ustad sahal. hirshabele. all constituents of the ex italian colony. the never had independent status n the never declared independence neither. they no legal recourse to separate from other constituents of the ex italian colony. no bull

but i got an idea. since ustad sahal likes independence. stop hating on somaliland recognition. hawadle get de facto indpendence from hirab. n ustad sahal support ratification pf somaliland's marriage annulment papers. win win win. no more fake union that don't exist on the ground. no more bull

but y'all know why stealth secessionists don't wanna formalize the reality on the ground. in somaliland n somalia. 'cause they know their li'l hirshabele n magertenland need the rest of the ex italian colony. n their jealous of somaliland

[Isseayaanle]

Sahal I agree with you for the first time. However There are some clans that would oppose this because they benefit from Somalia lawlessness. The only clan who truly wants confederation and separateion of powers is Raxawayne. Majertain are actually centralist but only want separate powers when they don’t get the seat on top. Somalia and Somalis need this type of power structure.

[sahal80]

Sahal I agree with you for the first time. However There are some clans that would oppose this because they benefit from Somalia lawlessness. The only clan who truly wants confederation and separateion of powers is Raxawayne. Majertain are actually centralist but only want separate powers when they don’t get the seat on top. Somalia and Somalis need this type of power structure.

Thanks if we share some common ideas. in the beginning of colonialism there was a tribal sheikhdoms and Sultanates in the gulf states not different than the somali Ugaases and and Sultans especially in the Nothern and Eastern coasts and Djibouti both Issa and Afar Sultanates they all signed a protectorate agreement with the British and French and upon their independence they united with the help of the British. today in the UAE they still have their tribal borders. Each Emirate has its own ruler, its own laws they copied the US States, a local government, and it's own income. I think Somalia needs this tribal system because it prevents one tribe from controlling another, especially the Hawiye, Daarood and D&M.
before they united
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucial ... and%201892.

This is like North and South Mudug or Daarood and hawiye border people r mixed under two different authorities. coming from Dubai to Sharjah their border

[Gubbet]

Sahal, a person whom we are more in disagreement than agreement, has presented an idea that is 100% more impactful for realizing, a mutually supported peace and stable Somalia than anything anyone is trying right this second being subsidized by $1 Billion year donor aid budget.

I agree.

Everything tried in Somalia up to this second was empowering one form or another some aspect of "domination" as considered by one significant chunk of the people in every different reincarnation.

They said tribalism destroyed Somalia.

Yet the only post-1991 foundation to give 100% of Somalia's community "a stake" (lahaansho) to then institute a system of government that can be 100% legitimate..was 4.5

Or "codifying" tribe apportioned as the basis of central government.

Think about this.

In public discourse, we "hate" TRIBALISM.

We ascribe the civil war to TRIBALISM.

Yet, the agreed upon foundation of a government that oddly, immediately was a stabilized system and has sustained "recognizance" from everyone ("legitimacy") has been the codification of apportionment by tribe in 4.5.

Tribalism in Somalia is really a "labor union."

Our jobs are herding or farming .

The herders or farmers we choose to herd next to or beside is my "tribe."

And my tribe is my labor union.

A labor union represents you ("speaks for you"), it defends you from labor abuse, it works to increase your benefits, and you happily choose to pay dues (qaaraan/mag) for the right of representation.

So when the labor unions were called to the table, all the workers in existence in the perimeter were represented at the table.

On that note, we misunderstand why federalism is even wanted by us. It is not federalism we want. IT IS OWNERSHIP (LAHAANSHO). Federalism is the car we use to drive to the place "Lahaansho."

Federalism however has been used even to that opposite effect---some have tried to keep trying the "domination" game we all recognize at this point will never work this is why Federalism hasn't even kicked off. It is dead carcass to this very second. It is like the Sodere Governments and the Djibouti II except this time we are not trying to get a national governent, but a regional stabilizing organization.

I am going to read more about what Sahal presented, but I will say so far it looks in the same family as the system I recognized will be fhe eventual "4.5" type of stability but for the regional organization.

My theory has discarded control like 2 states or even 1 state. After all, 4.5 does not tell Darod how to organize nor Hawiye and nor Darod or Hawiye tell each other how to organize.

Even at the district level, it should not be a control.

Even a town shared should not be faced with a control about 1 city administration.

My growing realization is 4.5 has codified the electoratr so ma aha?

We have established the constituencies.

Constituency ORGANIZE AS YOU DO UNDER YOUR GRAZING.

Even the little "isku dhac" that happens is someone being objectively considered to have "encroached."

Imagine that even "encroachment" or some poor herders who are seasonally affected by relatively less rain being driven to try to gdt some of your feed KNOWING HE COULD BE KILLED...if we took "political motivation" out by tying constituency to your generally understood grazing which even your neighbors will admit ..THEN MAYBE YOU WILL NOT EVEN BE MOTIVATED TO GO AND KILL THAT MISKIIN HERDER JUST FOR RELATIVELY WORSE YEAR FOR HIM, IT COULD BE YOU TOMORROW---AND EVEN CODIFYING YOUR "OWNERSHIP" WILL BE ASSURANCE WERE YOU TO COME ACROSS THE TRESPASSING HERDER YOU WILL KNOW IT IS MOMENTARY AND POOR GUY WILL GO BACK TO HIS GGRAZING THE SECOND THE NEXT RAINY SEASON COMES

That is the true end of the "civil war."

Somalis have been clans as organizing units with grazing land as "property."

4.5's stabilizing success is proof that at least 1/2 of our organizing system historically can work in modern government.

It is time to try the other 1/2 to answer this perpetual local constituency conflict breeder.

[sahal80]

Im not Qabiilist(to be against other Qabiilis) but i could be Qabali(pro Enclave, locality or Deegaan)
North African Berber provinces with local language are called Qibali or kebili to distinguish them from the dominant Arabic speaking culture.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kebili_Governorate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabylia

Now there is a tribal initiative against Al Shaydaan and a military alliance between the Gobolada dhexe tribes while it is difficult for one of them to confront them these are the positives of tribalism all of them fighting in one front.
each one of the 4 tribes should merge as a State like South West or two States like the rest. in a different horn you may have JL, DDS and PL combined into one state.

UAE started off as states like the U.S, Canada and Australia, each emirate reserves considerable powers including control over oil rights, Trade, Tourism and revenues. federal powers have developed slowly as each Emirate already had its own existing institutions of government prior to the country's official foundation.

Some gulf states have very special relationship based on tribal basis like Saudi Arabia
Kuwait and Bahrain they are originated from Najd(Central Saudi Arabia) from the عتبه tribe who came to power in their countries with the help of the Saudi family so they have special relationship to the point that Saudi Arabia annexed Bahrain to protect the ruling family from It's people who follow the Shiite sect.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani_Utbah

Somalis need to acknowledge qabiil. any Arab family or person carry the tribe name so they know eachother on social media without meeting before. for example my ID name will be Sahal hebel al Hawadli then every body knows we r associated with Hawiye
in Somalia you don't know who is your clan and who is not unless they tell you.

[barbarossa]

In pursuant to the soon to be passed legislation, I shall henceforth be addressed with my modified name, Barbarossa Faarax al Faqashi.

[mahor]

I agree, When you study the gulf and Somalia you begin to notice that we have extremely similar societies (tribal, nomadic) and they've done a great job building forms of governance that have led them to be where they are. Not blind nationalism and hubris which have destroyed us.

I believe that the solution lies in not just acknowledging the clan/regional differences within the country but also adopting systems that is best suited to our society and have the best chance of brining about stability and prosperity.

[Murax]

Sahal no offense but sometimes you talk like Ciyaal, and not a grown man with a family. UAE, Somalis have absolutely zero similarities. Do you travel? When was the last time you have seen Somalia and UAD? I travel to UAE very frequently, and know Khaleejis well.


-Khaleejis have a much calmer demeanor than Somalis
-Have some degree of understanding of Tanaasul
For the greater good
-Unlike Somalis Qabil for them is really just for identification, they don’t have anywhere near Somalis obsession for it
-The Shacab, and Governments both have zero tolerance for amni daro
-They have astronomical pride regarding the honor of their women folk, and would not be content to have a situation where their women flee alone to other countries a la
Somalia

I can go on…

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Sahal no offense but sometimes you talk like Ciyaal, and not a grown man with a family. UAE, Somalis have absolutely zero similarities. Do you travel? When was the last time you have seen Somalia and UAD? I travel to UAE very frequently, and know Khaleejis well.


-Khaleejis have a much calmer demeanor than Somalis
-Have some degree of understanding of Tanaasul
For the greater good
-Unlike Somalis Qabil for them is really just for identification, they don’t have anywhere near Somalis obsession for it
-The Shacab, and Governments both have zero tolerance for amni daro
-They have astronomical pride regarding the honor of their women folk, and would not be content to have a situation where their women flee alone to other countries a la
Somalia

I can go on…

That’s why they are ignoring us. Because we have no self respect

[sahal80]

Sahal no offense but sometimes you talk like Ciyaal, and not a grown man with a family. UAE, Somalis have absolutely zero similarities. Do you travel? When was the last time you have seen Somalia and UAD? I travel to UAE very frequently, and know Khaleejis well.


-Khaleejis have a much calmer demeanor than Somalis
-Have some degree of understanding of Tanaasul
For the greater good
-Unlike Somalis Qabil for them is really just for identification, they don’t have anywhere near Somalis obsession for it
-The Shacab, and Governments both have zero tolerance for amni daro
-They have astronomical pride regarding the honor of their women folk, and would not be content to have a situation where their women flee alone to other countries a la
Somalia

I can go on…

You have a superficial knowledge about the Arab culture. There is a book called the conflict of the state and tribe in the Gulf countries. الصراع بين القبيلة والدولة فى الخليج
like we have a conflict between "Qaran" and qabiila. Why has there been chaos in Somalia for more than three decades? Why are we fighting? Because of Qabiil. We don't trust the "Qaran" system out of fear of each other but the Arabs united on the basis of a tribal federation where every sheikh rules his region or every tribe rules itself and this is what Somalia needs. Even Saudi Arabia is ruled by a coalition of Najd clans who ruled Kuwait and Bahrain too with the help of The saudis but they r allبنى عتبه who wanted to be three different countries with close ties. Saudis do their haram shyt in the secular Bahrain over the weekend


you have tribal army in Saudi Arabia who get paid through their tribal leaders.

this is the second ruling Family in Saudi Arabia.

"The family is second in prestige only to the Saudi royal family, the Al Saud, with whom they formed a power-sharing arrangement nearly 300 years ago. The arrangement, which persists to this day, is based on the Al Saud maintaining the Al ash-Sheikh's authority in religious matters and the Al ash-Sheikh supporting the Al Saud's political authority."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_ash-Sheikh


we are a pastoral society البدو الرحل and egalitarian society who
governed themselves in a pastoral democracy and settled their problems that arose among their community through XEER. you have Boon or tumaal because they violated the tribal order . You are mixing between the Arab "conservative" social system that does not accept marriage from outside the tribe with their political tribal system they have one of the most conservative social systems unlike Somalis who r socially open we don't even marry our first cousins and our clans marry from eachother it's hard to see Somali who doesn't have relatives from others clans
I just talked about their political tribal system like the tribal chief we had Somali sultans who signined away their land to Europeans to get a leg up on the other clans this is what happened in the gulf countries

today we are not politically led by a tribal sheikh or Ugaas or Sultan but we have tribal polticians. Hassan Sheikh is hawiye, Deni is Daarood, Laftagareen is Rahanweyn so i compared them them with the UAE's federal supreme council.

Somalis are egalitarian society more than the Arabs to the point of anarchy we live in a pastoral democracy so neither a dictatorial rule nor a central government suits us.

[noer]

ustad sahal. speak for urself. the ex italian colony is led by tribal warlords n grifters. hsm. governor deni. hawiya. dabayaco. the bons. cagders in afmadow

somaliland is different the sultans n tribal chiefs are piecemakers n constitionalists.
xerka somaliland waha dhisay ugasint, saladinta, iyo caqilinta. siyasiyinta wey is badalan. lakin waha jogto ah xerka iyo cuqasha xerka dhisay. idoor. dolbahanta. wasalhgali. gadabursi. issa. everyone in somaliland respects their tribal elders. no warlords

everything ustad sahal said is about a tribal angle. removing hirab boot off hawadle neck. hirshabele stealth secession. all this uae n saudi sh** was a smokescreen

no smokescreen. no hirshabele or magertenland stealth secession. the entire ex italian colony under a strong government. with or witout somaliland recognition. deal wit it

[OwQariib]

How can an FMS operate like a tribal sheikhdom of a clan ruling its lands when multiple clans live in each FMS whose borders with the next FMS was designed by Europeans? The 7 Emirati trucial states or tribal states were already in existence and united as the UAE when they signed a treaty with Britain in the early 19th century while you had no Hirshabelle state just some XL clan chiefs like Muumin Foodey and Uleex Faarax.

What you want exactly is Hirshabelle autonomy or some kind of Xawaadle sultanate of Hirshabelle, if there was Hirshabelle autonomy then the Mudulood and the rest of the Hirshabelle clans can easily politically gang up on you with no respect to a gentleman's agreement, atleast under the auspices of the SFG you have mediators, checks and balances, other FMS allies and room to protest or enforce your influence etc.

I agree with the qabali system, we are all clans and pull resources together to build a community with a bottom up approach like the Islamic Courts, but that will have to address the regional make-up as they were not designed with respect to clan make-up otherwise the Italians wouldn't have made Mudug into one region. Hawiye's lands in Somalia are continguous anyway and they always shared 1 greater power be it Ajuuraan, Hiraab or the Italians. Just based on that alone it would make sense to have 1 mega Hawiye state with minority rights respected.