Gubbet Come In

[Murax]

The one area I always found myself in disagreement with you, is what I interpret as your confidence in Internetional organs, institutions, etc while I view them as pure evil, with no aim other than providing political cover for the WW1, new world order status quo. From Somalia to Palestine to Allah knows where else.

This skepticism more or less is shared by Saddam, Nomand, and others. Anyway my question to you is this: sanctity of the 3rd holiest site for the world’s second biggest religion is routinely defiled, assaulted, in what turns out to be nothing short of humiliation for the adherents of the Religion.


Horrific war crimes against women, children are taking place with the graphic photos of little girls in horrible pain with hair, skin being ripped off their bodies. All this taking place with deafening silence of these so called ‘International institutions’. After all this do you still have one iota of confidence in them?

[Khalid Ali]

Voltage has a great trust in the Americans he also believes they will for ever carry the fake government in the bunker. Waligi xita xisaabta kuma darsan if they will say one day. Fuck off. Ma wax baad no dhiibatay anaga ku dha dhabaynay out of pittty. This human rights shit the west ties to promote is a farce as for your question Murax why does the west allows Israel to act as it wishes with the palestenians and Al aqsa. Its simple because its can. Which super power do the Muslims have on their side no one really. The Jews have America and its the most powerful state on the world. Besides waxa laga baqaya markad wax iska celinnkaraysid Bahrain Sudan UAE all established ties with Israel. Biggest achievements of trumps administration.

[Murax]

Khalid Ali,


Aduunka xoog baa shaqeyso. The Brittish Empire may have collapsed long time ago. That said the system they set up to forever keep Muslimiin humiliated has worked till now. Only Muslim nation I’ve seen kind of recover is Turkey.

[Khalid Ali]

Yes turkey is doing pretty well they were actually the only one who demonstrated in their thousands at the Israeli embassy in Istanbul. No Arabs stood up. It tells you how the moral of the Arabs is broken. You get respect if you fight back Hadaad wax diidiid. But if you are a beggar state no respect for you. Wa laga bixi laakin one day the humiliation.

[Murax]

Khalid,

To be honest this is a humiliation for all Muslims, however Arabs even more. Look how Turkey stands up for other Turks in Azerbijan, Northern Cyprus.


With regard to Arabs, they have literally had their little ceeb cut off, been officially been made women, a toy thing by Israel. No other way to say it. Don’t know how they look themselves in the mirror.


Now with Somalis forget about all these nobodies that call themseves FGS, FMS, etc. can we agree the long term strategy by the West is to keep Somalis as naago of Ethiopia, Kenya?

[Nomand]

Khalid,

To be honest this is a humiliation for all Muslims, however Arabs even more. Look how Turkey stands up for other Turks in Azerbijan, Northern Cyprus.


With regard to Arabs, they have literally had their little ceeb cut off, been officially been made women, a toy thing by Israel. No other way to say it. Don’t know how they look themselves in the mirror.


Now with Somalis forget about all these nobodies that call themseves FGS, FMS, etc. can we agree the long term strategy by the West is to keep Somalis as naago of Ethiopia, Kenya?

Arabs fought in the 6 day war and where totally humiliated by Israel, their biggest and most powerful countries Egpyt/Syria was defeated in less then 6 days.

Israel even took over the golan heights which they control till this day and took over the Sinai Peninsula and egypt had to beg Israel to get it back.

even if all the arabs in the world united they are no match to the Israeli army.

[Murax]

Nomand,

True, although they wouldn’t have been able to do it without Western help. Look I’m not even knocking them for not fighting Israel but to say we will have full diplomatic relations while they are humiliating their same ethnic group, massarcing their women, children, co-religionists, Al Aqsa, etc is crazy

[nine]

Khalid Ali,


Aduunka xoog baa shaqeyso. The Brittish Empire may have collapsed long time ago. That said the system they set up to forever keep Muslimiin humiliated has worked till now. Only Muslim nation I’ve seen kind of recover is Turkey.

His words are spot on even 100 years later.

[Phinks]

The fact of the matter is Somalia exists, like a good prostitute, to be used. Extract all the loot her body can produce, keep her alive, fit for service everyday, juiced on just enough drugs to generate the energy to do her services.

The pimp, in this case, not just the US/West, but Kenya, Ethiopa, AU, IGAD, and all governmental bodies in the region, who stand her up, wash her off and deliver her the customers who will extract from her the last bulging of flesh her body can surrender. The intermittent folks from CIA (Xalane), State, EUROCOM, NATO, and whatever Tribal sojourners who want a poke or blow who can manage a few hours in Mogadishu are all into the pimping of Somalia, literally and figuratively.

But, par the course, let's focus on what clan X is doing and how clan Y will respond, one will inevitably come to the conclusion that Somalis cannot function with a clan system, but alas, it might very well be too late.

[Nomand]

Nomand,

True, although they wouldn’t have been able to do it without Western help. Look I’m not even knocking them for not fighting Israel but to say we will have full diplomatic relations while they are humiliating their same ethnic group, massarcing their women, children, co-religionists, Al Aqsa, etc is crazy

that is true western powers did help Israel, but the USSR was also helping the Arabs, but the way i look at why for example egypt or oman not caring about Palestine is like how for example a isaaq would not care about kenyan bombings in gedo. it is all tribal ours is internal within the country theirs is nationalistic tribalism

you have biixi going to Nairobi being used as a pon and begging for recognition and a bit of cash.

[Gubbet]

So my read is I think there is confusion about exactly what I see as the REALISTIC method to move things forward (synchronizing with internarional norms and expectations vs transacting with international institutions)

It is sort of like taking your child to a prestigious Jesuit academy.

Sure it started as a uniquely Catholic response of means and even Catholic creeds may still serve as the inspiration of the school, but the school is not just "for Catholics" today. Furthermore, they even teach evolution as the scientific standard just as any secular school.

Essentially, it is not even because of Catholicism that would inspire you to take your child there.

You would take your child there because they would have the best educational process that could possibly exist in the most respected and successful teaching methodology of any secondary learning institution.

But your child, to be a success, has to "modify" (how they learn) and even "conform" to "expectations" (such as "dress, behavior, and conduct." )

You see Murax, it is not about subjective concepts of "Western values" or even the concept of "existing instituions" that should inform the Palestinians about the best choice, but really the best process with the most successful methodology for achieving objectives like ending occupation.

And for the Palestinians to be a success, they have to "modify" and evenn"conform" to expectations----as the South Africans did, as the Indians did, as the African Americans did.

I wrote this years ago. Please take a look at it for further perspective.

In particular, think about the economist' quotes for a second.

Palestine's hope is non-violent Resistance.
PostSun Nov 18, 2012 10:31 pm

It is time Palestinians were real with themselves. Hamas is as much an enemy to their vision of peace, security, and statehood as the Israeli state and Zionism is.

I was just reading a quote from a well known economist that says Israel are masters of marketing but with a faulty product while the Palestinians have the most lucrative product but almost no marketing.

Palestinian cause is the moral cause. They are the underdogs, the oppressed, those facing modern day aggression under a well-armed state that has near total control over their movement and freedom.

Look at the major world changes after World WAR II....Indian independence, US civil rights movement, South Africa, even as late as Burma and you will see all this was achieved by non-violent resistance and the power of world moral right.

In the 2008 Presidentian elections, John McCain had to apologize for voting against MLK Day then calling it a celebration of racial war but was brought in line by the moral right of the country.

US Vice President ceeb Cheney had to apologize in a trip to South Africa for having called the ANC a "terrorist group" in the 80's.

The Palestinian cause is the right cause, the moral cause in the current Israeli-Palestinian problem.

Yet almost NO ONE on the Palestinian side is taking advantage of this weapon more powerful then anything in Israel's armaments. Hamas in fact hurts it.

I think the most pragmatic and best cause option for Palestine today is:

-unilaterally announce cease-fire
-burn their shitty symbolic rockets
-adopt non-violence
-and resist as a people using their spirits against the Israeli war machine

This is my advice to them.

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 0#p3843738

[nine]

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

[Murax]

So my read is I think there is confusion about exactly what I see as the REALISTIC method to move things forward (synchronizing with internarional norms and expectations vs transacting with international institutions)

It is sort of like taking your child to a prestigious Jesuit academy.

Sure it started as a uniquely Catholic response of means and even Catholic creeds may still serve as the inspiration of the school, but the school is not just "for Catholics" today. Furthermore, they even teach evolution as the scientific standard just as any secular school.

Essentially, it is not even because of Catholicism that would inspire you to take your child there.

You would take your child there because they would have the best educational process that could possibly exist in the most respected and successful teaching methodology of any secondary learning institution.

But your child, to be a success, has to "modify" (how they learn) and even "conform" to "expectations" (such as "dress, behavior, and conduct." )

You see Murax, it is not about subjective concepts of "Western values" or even the concept of "existing instituions" that should inform the Palestinians about the best choice, but really the best process with the most successful methodology for achieving objectives like ending occupation.

And for the Palestinians to be a success, they have to "modify" and evenn"conform" to expectations----as the South Africans did, as the Indians did, as the African Americans did.

I wrote this years ago. Please take a look at it for further perspective.

In particular, think about the economist' quotes for a second.

Palestine's hope is non-violent Resistance.
PostSun Nov 18, 2012 10:31 pm

It is time Palestinians were real with themselves. Hamas is as much an enemy to their vision of peace, security, and statehood as the Israeli state and Zionism is.

I was just reading a quote from a well known economist that says Israel are masters of marketing but with a faulty product while the Palestinians have the most lucrative product but almost no marketing.

Palestinian cause is the moral cause. They are the underdogs, the oppressed, those facing modern day aggression under a well-armed state that has near total control over their movement and freedom.

Look at the major world changes after World WAR II....Indian independence, US civil rights movement, South Africa, even as late as Burma and you will see all this was achieved by non-violent resistance and the power of world moral right.

In the 2008 Presidentian elections, John McCain had to apologize for voting against MLK Day then calling it a celebration of racial war but was brought in line by the moral right of the country.

US Vice President ceeb Cheney had to apologize in a trip to South Africa for having called the ANC a "terrorist group" in the 80's.

The Palestinian cause is the right cause, the moral cause in the current Israeli-Palestinian problem.

Yet almost NO ONE on the Palestinian side is taking advantage of this weapon more powerful then anything in Israel's armaments. Hamas in fact hurts it.

I think the most pragmatic and best cause option for Palestine today is:

-unilaterally announce cease-fire
-burn their shitty symbolic rockets
-adopt non-violence
-and resist as a people using their spirits against the Israeli war machine

This is my advice to them.

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 0#p3843738

Got it, so basically you mean embracing contemporary reality, and doing the best you can under those circumstances. For the armed wing you speak of Hamas I agree 100%, it is beyond trying to use 1800 century era weaponry against perhaps the most sophisticated 21st century military in the world. Zero military gains are made, with the diplomatic ammunition being given to the aggressors framing the 1 sided massacre laughably as being ‘a conflict between two sides’.

That said even if the Palestinians did as you mentioned there is still enough reason to think it wouldn’t matter. These shameless institutions will for instance release statement after statement referring to the Ethiopian Government as war crime perpetrators, yet is TPLF not a armed group 100X worse than Hamas?! These institutions are not stupid regardless as what idiotic Hamas do they know this ain’t no conflict.

[Gubbet]

Correct on the first point. It is about real, cold blooded pragmatism. I say cold blooded to mean it is the difficult, even unnatural choice to be simply pragmatic in such a situation when we warm-blooded humans are emotional and angry and bitter and irrational. Which brings me to "leadership."

MLK. Mahatma Ghandi. Nelson Mandela.

It is not for the majority to have to be cold-blooded tacticians and pragmatists; it is for the leadership---and in no other situation of Man is the right leadership more important, vital, even existentially necessary than when Man faces a moment like the Palestinans.

This need for right leadership is so accute, even the "leadership" gives way to the "leader" and in his form becomes our highest manifestations and hopes. That's why they become super-humane and the expression of their own people for them catapults them to world reknown.

Palestinians not only have never been able to find this right leader (Arafat came very, very close but he was badly advised by Arab reactionary governsments and later he was handicapped by the Hamas Groups) but they even divided amongest themselves with Gaza and the West Bank under two different admins extremely opposed to each other.

Finally, again it is not waiting on the INSTITUTIONS to change, it is being able to harness the ability to change the institutions themselves.

"Harness the ability" is conforming to the norms and expectations so brilliantly THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL CONSENSUS on this issue

It is like the kid again at the school----by virtue of the school being the best doesnt make you the best. What the school has done is provide you the "opportunity" to succeed.

You must now "harness the ability" or conform to the rigors, standards, and expectations of being a student (doing your homework, come prepared, take study hour seriously, make use of tutoring resources, etc ) so tightly THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO BE A SUCCESSFUL STUDENT.

When the Palestinians conform to the norms and expectations of the previously successful methodologies----collective moral right will FORCE the institutions to change themselves.

There is no better time than now even.

Even without fully conforming already, the Palestinian issue is so extraordinary that even within the United States there is already the formation of a schism between the people on this issue based in party affiliation.

It tells me there has already been "climax" on this issue's shelf life----but how fast or how slow it comes back down depends on the Palestinians.

There is no institition capable of resisting or fighting the inevitable change of policy in such a circumstances because the very nature of the existence and legitimacy underpining their relevance or influence itself is dependent on recognition of this methodology.

By being nonviolent resister under such occupation, they will become the greatest expression of FREEDOM AND HUMAN RIGHTS and there will be no choice but to have world consensus on this issue.

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Murax,

I don’t have just skepticism - I have a utter hatred of multilateralism and “consensus” in Somalia. With the things I know now before I undertook this journey. Somalia surviving as a functional society and people only has a fifteen year window until we lose our chance. This is due to educated diaspora coming back. But even that I’m skeptical in. Nobody wants a functional Somali state. Then NGOs and the UN wouldn’t have a excuse to be in our country. They are parasites who feed off war and perpetual crisis in the country. A stable Somalia isn’t easy to keep busy with each other while our natural wealth gets robbed and toxins get dumped in our seas. This is bigger than NN. This is how globalism works - at the expense of Somali national unity and strength. And it’s pushed by the very same countries who fought our grandfathers during colonialism - the EU and the UK! These countries refuse the Arab world to be democratic and instead placed docile dictators who don’t go against their interests. Even Al Shabaab is foreign mercenaries - they give the pretext for foreign countries to be in our lands. They are sponsored by foreign intelligence services. These foreign intelligence services also make sure no one faction has a monopoly on violence and there’s perpetual stalemate. All of this is by design Murax, don’t let anybody lie to you.The rabbit hole my friend is deep and the swamp is beyond nasty nacala. Low IQ tribal hillbillies like Sahal only see domestic issues while I see the bigger picture of the eradication of the Somali people as a challenge ever again to the global order. That’s the price we pay for ‘77 war. This hell