SomaliNet Forums

No.

I see now that the language card is manipulation on your part right now.

You display knowledge, understanding, literacy, and proficiency in English beyond what is required to understand me or anyone else conversing with you in it.

We have an "irreconcilable" misunderstanding and it is not due to language itself.

We are not on the same page about what qualifies as "relevant" so one might as well be talking about string theory in outer space and another about Native American totem poles in Alaska.

I have explained myself very clearly where the misunderstanding comes from when I took the effort to briefly explain what I meant by "EPISTEMOLOGY."

Read it again bro, please.

Also, because I really think it didn't come to you yet, I have shared "nothing" definitively about any of this including at your angry solicitation.

And the reason why I did not is because exactly due to that anger.


It is one thing for me to randomly partake in a remote discussion in which I might come across interesting info---

---and another thing for me to irresponsibly displace historical research materials that may or may not prove important but which will be received irresponsibly and needlessly antagonize any of those people.

So if I did not explicitly share anything---it is not an oversight.

I am actually very well documented on here for, at least the vast majority of times, showing great sensitivity and deference to how people should be treated.

I never irresponsibly treat knowledge or people this way.

But wallahi, Saddam Mareexaan can corrorborate that I have actually never "guestimated" any of the mentioned groups on this topic.

They all rose up based on what I have gleaned from the history.

So yes, I didn't "choose" muqaabul or rely anything on Somali oral history.

Actually historical documentation made them stand nout.

Btw do you known it is actually not even "Ogaadeen" but really "Wogadayn".

First , English is not the first nor my second language yet I do my best to put across my points with utmost clarity.

Second, I have a good command in Somali language and culture.I am a poet ,yes a poet who wrote over a hundred poems and my knowledge in Somali tribes in second to none .I have been collecting and studying Somali tribes since 2014 .Enough about me.

Third, language is supposed be a tool of communication and its only the enslaved brains that regard good English means a gallant show of expertise .You can be a good writer of the Queen’s language but still trail behind in making genuine points in debates .

Fourth ,Ree Biciidyahan ,Maqaabul and other clans you have mentioned has nothing to do with Marexaan .And that is a fact .

Fifth, Yabadhaale Cayr claims 1/2 of Marexaan ,the progeny of Warwaajecle to be exact , as their own splinter .And that is not something I cooked up but CAYR claim you in their websites.You may check out Karalandia . According to them ,CAYR comprise of :

Warwaajecle Yabadhaale Cayr
Wace Yabadhaale Cayr
Mucli Tolwayne Cayr


Sixth, Clan demography and distribution had never been static .Some clans rose to prominence in post Adal era (OG,IIDOR ,CIISE) while others like Geri,Xarla,Yabaree and Masarre shrinked due to either ;

•the huge casualties they sustained in longstanding Adal wars
•Persecutions by Galla or fellow Somali in post Adal era

I already mentioned why Ogaden had no visible role in Adal wars .Ogaden lived under the dominance of Bartire and Abasguul but then came JIDWAAQ JABAY . A well known incident that made OG a dominant force in 1650 .A century after Adel wars.

Here is a famous OG camel song that recalls the decisive victory against Jidwaaqs in 1650s

MA JIDWAAQOO
MAALIN JABAY BAA
JABAD LAGAA HELAY !

Jidwaaq would later on regroup and found their own feet during the reign of Garaad Xirsi Wiil waal (1800-1860s) .Ugaas Nuur Cubudhiye (1770s-1830s) expanded Ogaden frontiers and thus made OG a dominant tribe with vast territories .

Seventh point ,the name is Ogaden Absame and not Wogaden or Ogadela as is written in some old maps . Both Ogaden and Absame are part of ancient Somali group names

Clan names that end with -EEN

-Ujee-deen
-Ogaa-deen
-Awraa-deen
-Majeer-teen
-Moob-leen
-Weeyd-teen

Clan names that end with -SAME

-Ab-same
—Aw-same
-Abti-same
-Reera-same
-Waxaad-same
-Maqal-same
-Barya-same
-War-same

In simple terminology , Ogaden is a name .An acient name meaning -The renown one .Weeydteen -the slim one (Wayd) .Ogaden Absame and Weeydteen Absame were siblings .

They all rose up based on what I have gleaned from the history.

So yes, I didn't "choose" muqaabul or rely anything on Somali oral history.

Actually historical documentation made them stand nout.

Btw do you known it is actually not even "Ogaadeen" but really "Wogadayn".

There is no authrotative Historical documentation on Somali history .Most of Somali history is decoded in folklores, poetry as well as clan interactions through marriage ,neighborhoods or wars .Seedyare actually has better understanding of Somali Oral history than pretentious Voltage . Btw,you know nothing about about Ogaden clans as you have showed your ignorance in another thread of mine . So you should be the last person to comment about Wogaden or something

Seed, what are you? I thought you were Aba Yoonis (Geri Koombe), but now it seems like you are Miyirwalaal. Are you Bah-Xawaadle by any chance?

Voltage



Ogaadeen waa


-Cumar
-Barwaaq


Kaanti Barwaaq (Miyirwalaal)
Amuudaan Barwaaq (Maqaabul


Sacad Amuudaan (Ree Sacad)
Xaaji Makaahiil Amuudaan

*Abraahiin
*Gumacadle
*Gacanwayne
*Habar Samatalis

Gumacadle waa

Maxamad Gumacadle
Muuse Gumacadle
Ismaaciil Gumacadle
—————————————
Kaanti Barwaaq

Yuusuf Kaanti

Camar Yuusuf
Muuse Yuusuf
Abreere Yuusuf


Talamuge Muuse
Baahale Muuse
Ismaaciil Muuse (Habaracad)
Malooge Muuse


Talamuge Muuse waa

-SiinWaaq
-Samawade

Siin Waaq waa Caabudwaaq
Samawade waa Afarta Ibrahim Samawade iyo Adeerokood Maxamad Samawade

-Maxamad Samawade
-Ibraahim Samawade

*Cabdalle Ibrahim
*Geeya Ibraahim
*Geelxiis Ibraahim
*Ashantalis Ibraahim



Baahale Muuse waa 9

CaliJideed Baahale
calibalool Baahale
Weged Baahale
Ciise Baahale m—(Bahgeri)
Jibraaiil Baahale—(BahGeri)
Xamar Baahale—-(Bahgeri)
Saleebaan Baahale—-(BahGeri)
Cawlyahan Baahale
Subeer Baahale (Maxamad Subeer)

Now back to your question ,yes I am Miyirwalaal ,Baahale ,Maxamad Subeer ,Ree Isaaq .Baxawaadle is sub clan of Ree Warfaa of the larger Cabdille clan their simplified Abtirsi goes this way ;Ogaadeen,Maxamad Subeer,Ree Cabdille ,Ree Warfaa ,Ree Ugaas Magan. Today no Ogaden person will tell you he is Miyirwalaal because certain names in the abtirsi are not popular clan names .For instance, You will hardly see a Marexan saying his sub clan is Abadir , Warwaajecle or Awsame or A Majeerteen claiming Aawe ,Himidoor and Umadnabi as their clans despite having such names in MJ abtirsi.

Not it is Wogadeyn and it only displaced the W starting mid 1800's

Wogadeyn is also possibly resulting from Argob Bari -> Nogobari

Prior to that aspects of it separated to become Mogor > Mogadeyn -> Majeerteen

Talareer/Baahale> Mataanhara > Dakkar

Saleebaan/Miyir Walaal = Amaanreer

Amuudaan/Ajuuraan > Wabi Shabelle

Maqaabul/Nemcaale = Mareerguur = Magaal Gar

Bartirri > Badro Bari

Cheers

Also, because I really think it didn't come to you yet, I have shared "nothing" definitively about any of this including at your angry solicitation.

And the reason why I did not is because exactly due to that anger.


It is one thing for me to randomly partake in a remote discussion in which I might come across interesting info---

---and another thing for me to irresponsibly displace historical research materials that may or may not prove important but which will be received irresponsibly and needlessly antagonize any of those people.

So if I did not explicitly share anything---it is not an oversight.

I am actually very well documented on here for, at least the vast majority of times, showing great sensitivity and deference to how people should be treated.

I never irresponsibly treat knowledge or people this way.

But wallahi, Saddam Mareexaan can corrorborate that I have actually never "guestimated" any of the mentioned groups on this topic.

They all rose up based on what I have gleaned from the history.

So yes, I didn't "choose" muqaabul or rely anything on Somali oral history.

Actually historical documentation made them stand nout.

Btw do you known it is actually not even "Ogaadeen" but really "Wogadayn".

Seed wants to fkd you with the old generation biases and notions while you’re doing new generation PhD level reconstruction of Somali studies itself. There’s levels to this shit b.

Snet is a place where all sorts of historical revisionism occurs.

Emir Nur kulaha.

Not it is Wogadeyn and it only displaced the W starting mid 1800's

Wogadeyn is also possibly resulting from Argob Bari -> Nogobari

Prior to that aspects of it separated to become Mogor > Mogadeyn -> Majeerteen

Talareer/Baahale> Mataanhara > Dakkar

Saleebaan/Miyir Walaal = Amaanreer

Amuudaan/Ajuuraan > Wabi Shabelle

Maqaabul/Nemcaale = Mareerguur = Magaal Gar

Bartirri > Badro Bari

Cheers

Ajuraan is not a clan name but a dynastic name .The founders of this southern Somali dynasty were Alam Baalcad Absame .The original seat of this mediveal dynasty was QALAAFE but subsequently expanded to south .The ruling Gareens were Alam Baalcad Absame but the military strength usually came from the AJI population which consisted of all southern Somali tribes such as Mudulood and Raaxwayn .

Afarta Baalcad Absame

1.Quran Jecel Baalcad
2.Xintire Baalcad
3.Birinbire Baalcad
4.Alam Baalcad


Maqaabul and Miyir Walaal are names tribal alliance or gaashaambur name .

Ree Sacad were called Maqaabul and at one point and they were the dominant Ogaden clan .The rest of Ogaden ; Baahale ,Tolomoge and Makaahil ganged up against the tyrannical Ree Sacad hence the name MIYIR WALAAL .

Sacad Amudaan Barwaaq (Maqaabul)

Yuusuf Kaanti Barwaaq (Miyir Walaal)
Makaahil Amuudan Barwaaq ( Miyir Walaal)



However ,the name Maqaabul is nowadays synonymous to Sacad Amuudaan +Makaahiil Amuudaan .


Baahale was the nickname of Siciid Muuse Yuusuf .Baha-aale means the man who had several BAH .

Shaykh Siciid Muuse Yuusuf Kaanti had 9 sons from three wives

Bah Tanade —(Subeer & Cawl)
Bah Geri ——-(Ciise,Saleebaan,Xamar,Jibraaiil)
Bah ???————(Jideed,Cali ,Weged )

As i have noted earlier ,AJI and AJUURAAN was dynastic name meaning the common citizens and the ruling elities.All Ajuuran people have their abtirsi ending in Alam Baalcad .In this old clan chart ,The four divisions of Baalcad is clearly mentioned but they wrongly included Weeydteen who was the uncle of ilma Baalacad .

1.Alam Baalacad (The gareens of Ajuran dynasty)
2.Xintire Baalcad
3.Sibri (Birinbire) Baalcad
4.Quran Jecel Baalacad

Baalcad is one of the four sons of Absame Kumade

1.Jidwaaq Absame
2.Baalcad Absame
3.Weeydteen Absame
4.Ogaadeen Absame





Daarood————-Daarood
Kablalax————-Kablalax
Kuumade————Kuumade
Absame————-Absame
Ogaaden———-Baalcad
Tagalwaq————-Alam
Barwaaq———-Walamuge
Kaanti—————Kuunle
Yuusuf—————Idiq
Muuse—————Garsoole
Bahaale————Gareen ——-(1300s) (Ajuran founder)
Subeer ————-Dayl
Maxamad ———Sarjeele
Muuse
Cabdille
Maxaadroob
Yuusuf —————(lived Axmad gurey’s era )
Khalaf-guun
Xasan-Dheere
Khalaf-Madobe————Ugaas Nuur (first Ogaden Ugaas )
Ugaas Xirsi
Warfaa.——————— (lived around 1650-1700)
Ugaas Magan
Ugaas Warfaa-Aar
Ugaas Nuur-Cubudhiye———-(1770-1830)
Ugaas Maxamuud
Ugaas Faarax-Cade
Ugaas Xaanshi ———————-(1870-1950s)
Duulane
Ugaas Maxamad (current Ugaas aged over 70 years )



In 1901 Ugaas Xanshi was a young Ugaas of around 25 years of age and here is the proof.









Gareen founded the Ajuraan dynasty possibly in 1300s

There is no such existence of any settlement called Qalaafo before the treaty of Wuccialle/Wuchale/Wajaale between Shoa and Italy when Shoa renamed Ethiopia started to come down the Somali plains claiming the Ogaden.

Qalaafo is the well/ceel/watering hole Ethiopian troops established a garrison over looking Barrey/"Barri"----1 of ONLY 2 settlements downriver Shabelle between IME (IIMEEY) and Villa Duc Dela Abruzzi (Jowhar).

The only other settlement was Makanne.

The garrison Ethiopia built overlooking Barrey became the settlement called "Qalaafo" named after the watering spot/ceel and the garrison the Italians built in opposition over looking Makane became the settlement of "Beled-Weyne."

Barrey and Makane were "shambas" or light cultivations on the banks of the Shabelle River by the Somali Bantu communities of Reer Barre and Makane.

The Makanne part of the Shiidle (Somalia) were subject to the Baadicadde and the reer Barre part of the reer Shabelle (DDSI/NFD) are federated with the Ajuuraan.

During that highly political moment of high stakes land grabbing, the settlement of Barrey/Barri became the subject of long intrigue by Italy after the Ethiopians built the garrison of Qalaafo.

Barrey and it's farmers federated with the Ajuuraan was covetted by the Italians part of its designs to push the boundary before full scale invasion of Ethiopia in the 2nd Italo-Abbysinnian war.

The leader of the Ajuuraan, to whom the Barrey Somali-Bantu farmers were federated with, Olol Diinle, who was very anti-Ethiopia until defeat of Italy later in WWII, became a highly romanticized and woed figure by Italy in the battle for legitimacy in the contested land.

There is no existence of Ajuuraan Kingdom anywhere-at all.

Just like there is no existence of "Qalaafo" before 1889---at all.

This is a good moment to remind you, once again, the importance of "EPISTEMOLOGY."

EPISTEMOLOGY is the study of "how" to establish "facts."

That is something the entire Somali people need to learn before argumentation

This Ajuran old man is basically saying :

1.There is no abtirsi name called Ajuuraan but there is Maxamad Alam Baalcad Absame .Today’s Ajuuraan are either WAAQLE or WALAMUGE both the siblings Of Maxamad Alam Baalcad Absame

2.He is also saying Baalcad Absame had five sons but he only mentioned 4 :XINTIRE,QURANJECEL,BIRINBIRE,ALAM .

3.The old man is saying all Baalcad Absame are Ajuuran but the truth is quite the opposite .It is the Gareen Adke dynasty of Alam Baalcad Absame that founded the AJUURAAN dynasty . So, Baalcad Absame is core and Ajuuraan (Alam Baalcad ) are the branch.

Quraan Jecel Baalcad Absame
Birinbire Baalcad Absame
Xintire Baalcad Absame
Waaqle Alam Baalcad Absame (AJUURAAN)
Walamuge Alam Baalcad Absame (AJUURAAN)

4.It is only the descendants of Alam Baalcad that partly deny their Baalcad Absame heritage mainly due to their mediveal AJUURAAN dynasty . The other 3 now remain loyal to their Baalcad-ness whether they live with Geri and Jarsa in Jinacasni and TulliGuleed or whether they live in Jubaland or NFD .

Epistemology is study of knowledge .Reliable and meaningful knowledge .

Trolling Somali Qabiils while attaching non-existent hype to Marexan is the last thing that happens within the spheres of epistemology

You are actually playing around with words by giving them wrong and unrelated interpretations.

Truth be told ,you have a talent which is writing fiction .Go ahead and produce a best selling novel .


Leave Qabiil related matters to Seedyare .He has a lot of content regarding Somali clans ,poetry and culture

Yes, I know.

That's why I said Ajuuraan = Amuudaan and both really are diverged ways of saying "Wabi Shabeelle" or however the original name was.

You just keep repeating what I am saying or we are both agreeing we are talking about 2 groups who formed from 1 Identity.

The only difference is you think Ajuuraan came from Absame which includes Amuudaan.

And I am saying, Ajuuraan didn't come from an Absame and neither did Amuudaan. Ajuuraan and Amuudaan are just diverged sayings of the name "Wabi Shabelle" by two separated groups of the same people who move apart on the banks of the river.

Voltage

Look at these detailed clan stuctures

2.Daarood

2.1 Sade
2.2Kablalax
2.3Tanade
2.4Awrtable
2.5 Casalle

2.1.1 Marexaan
2.1.2 Facaaye
2.1.1.1 Aw-Same
2.1.1.1.1 Baalyeri
2.1.1.1.1.1 Hodan bari
2.1.1.1.1.1.1 Gaashireedle
2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Xasan
2.1.1.1.1.1.1.2 Isaaq

2.2.1 Koombe
2.2.2 Kuumade
2.2.2.1 Galimays
2.2.2.2 Absame
2.2.2.2.1 Baalcad
2.2.2.2.2 Weeyteen
2.2.2.2.3 Jidwaaq
2.2.2.2.4 Ogaadeen

2.2.2.2.4.1 Tagaalwaaq
2.2.2.2.4.1.1 Cumar
2.2.2.2.4.1.2 Barwaaq
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.1 AMUUDAAN
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.1.1 SACAD
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.1.2 MAKAAHIIL
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2 KAANTI
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1 Yuusuf
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.1 Camar
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.2 Abreere
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3 Muuse
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.1 Ismaaciil
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.2 Dhegburo
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.3 Ma’looge
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.4 TALAMOOGE
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.5 BAHAALE


The above is a detailed abtirsi of Marexan and Ogaden.Do you actually believe this abtirsi to be genuine record ?

OR

You believe Somali tribes are just divergent social groups which emanated from centuries of contact and interactions ?

Lastly , Do you even acknowledge Marexaan are Daarood or you have some other noble explanation of Marexaan origin such as Goita Tedro version of Habesha origin?

Voltage

Look at these detailed clan stuctures

2.Daarood

2.1 Sade
2.2Kablalax
2.3Tanade
2.4Awrtable
2.5 Casalle

2.1.1 Marexaan
2.1.2 Facaaye
2.1.1.1 Aw-Same
2.1.1.1.1 Baalyeri
2.1.1.1.1.1 Hodan bari
2.1.1.1.1.1.1 Gaashireedle
2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Xasan
2.1.1.1.1.1.1.2 Isaaq

2.2.1 Koombe
2.2.2 Kuumade
2.2.2.1 Galimays
2.2.2.2 Absame
2.2.2.2.1 Baalcad
2.2.2.2.2 Weeyteen
2.2.2.2.3 Jidwaaq
2.2.2.2.4 Ogaadeen

2.2.2.2.4.1 Tagaalwaaq
2.2.2.2.4.1.1 Cumar
2.2.2.2.4.1.2 Barwaaq
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.1 AMUUDAAN
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.1.1 SACAD
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.1.2 MAKAAHIIL
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2 KAANTI
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1 Yuusuf
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.1 Camar
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.2 Abreere
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3 Muuse
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.1 Ismaaciil
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.2 Dhegburo
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.3 Ma’looge
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.4 TALAMOOGE
2.2.2.2.4.1.2.2.1.3.5 BAHAALE


The above is a detailed abtirsi of Marexan and Ogaden.Do you actually believe this abtirsi to be genuine record ?

OR

You believe Somali tribes are just divergent social groups which emanated from centuries of contact and interactions ?

Lastly , Do you even acknowledge Marexaan are Daarood or you have some other noble explanation of Marexaan origin such as Goita Tedro version of Habesha origin?

He claimed marehans were habeshi from Eritrea and that we were Aksumite and shit

Ancient Clan names have certain distinctive suffices .

-AAN

Amuu-daan (OG)
Wac-daan (HAW)
Wada-laan (HAW)
Mare-xaan (DRD)
Bi-Xaan (AJURAN)

-EEN

Ogaa-deen
Weeyd-teen
Wac-wayteen
Moob-leen
Majeer-teen
Awraa-deen (Duduble)
Tagaa-leen (Gadsan)

-DOOR

Ii-door
Nac-door
Maka-door
Nimi-door
Himi-door


DOON

-Lo,doon
Bah,doon
Shir,doon
Aw,doon
Geel,doon
Afrax,doon
Gob,doon
Col,doon
Aar,doon

DIID

Xil,diid
Bun,diid
Gama’diid

SAME

-Reera,same (Gaadsan)
-Dir,same (Gaaljecel)
-Bixisame (Ajuuraan)
-Aw,same (Marexaan )
-Waxaadsame (Duduble)
-Maqalsame (Duduble)
-AB,SAME
-Abti,same (Gaaljecel)
Barya,same (Gaaljecel)
Midigsame (Xawaadle)

AALE

Cawa-aale
Baha-aale
Aya-aanle
Ama-aanle
Tukaa-aale
Bura-aale
Fara-aale


WAAQ

Diintawaaq —(Xawaadle)
Amartiwaaq —(Majerteen)
Barwaaq—-(OG,dhuloz)
Tagaalwaaq—-(OG)
Jidwaaq (Absame )
Cidwaaq—(Habargidir )
Aarwaaq—(Habargidir,Abgaal)
Guudwaaq —(OG)
Isxiiji-waaq (Murusade)
Caabudwaaq (Ogaaden,Degodia)
Doorwaaq (Gaaljecel)
Gumurwaaq (Marexaan)
Raamwaaq (Ciise )



Names related to Islam

Ximannabi (Hilibi ,Mudulood )
Nabiyaal —(Hilibi , Mudulood )
Nabiraac —(Marexaan)
Nabiroon -(Marexaan)
Quraanyoow -(Garre)
Quraanjecel—(Baalcad Absame)
Tala-Nabi —-(Abasguul,Absame)
Umad-Nabi—Majeerteen



-oow

-Iid,oow
-Kuul,oow
-Gaaf,oow

MOOGE

tala mooge (Ogaaden)
Shar Mooge (Raxwayn)
Wadal Mooge (MJ)
Wala mooge (Ajuuran,Balcad Absame)
Fara mooge (Xawaadle )


YAHAN

Deera,yahan (Iidoor)
Ugaadh,yahan (MJ,Dhuloz,Iidoor)
Cawl,yahan (OG,MJ)
Biciid,yahan (MJ )