Jesus (PBUH) and his rejection of divinity

[nasradiin32]

beyond qabiil"
as you see or mention there is big contradiction inthe bible that is why we muslims say" the Bible is human"
paul says some thing and he is real founder of christianity " and peter says something: i am asking what jesus says were is gospel of jesus instead of mark,mathew .john"
"aslo please note that 82% of the "words of Jesus" found in the Bible were apparently never spoken by him"means are not his" that is why u can see alot of contradiction in bible"
and that is why the christians scholeres thrown out many things of bible as a fabrication " like trinity divine
amazing "
one time jesus is god .another time he is son of god "then jesus is human son of mariam "maseih of nazerate" i am asking do we have one jesus or three dffrent jesus?
it is very good that u mention these verses "john 8:4-11" these verses srongly disapprove jesus divinity becuase when they come to him they said "law of moses pbuh commanded us,means there was a guidence from god before jesus then the jesus reply was stone her " jesus did not say to them what kind of commands are u talking?do whati ihve to say i am your lord"jesus pbuh knew that his mission is to renew forgotten moses law and torah" like punishment of adultry which all three main religions command (islam.christianty.judiasim)
if you look at"john 12-49" u will know that jesus was not divne
I don't speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it"
your above mentioned statement and whta is in the bible made jesus double face person "saying something one time "and another time something else" and first bible was written 80-or 100 years after jesus christ pbuh " people lying on jesus"with any proove" paul is a person who invented the christianity not jesus
thatt is why islam try and guide people a better understanding of jesus and also defending him because he is one of greatest god,s messengers to mankind

[BeyondQabil]

usb" since u are cawaan or atheist you don,t have right to talk about islam or christianty but i need them (christians )to proove that islam is wrong "
i am here to proove that islam is only perfect religion in this world and no one can critisizze islam "
The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, andnever called himself God”s son. or god as christians beleive that is why we muslims are defending him

I think your logic is flawed here: does it mean that if you are not an atheist you cannot talk about atheism?

[visious]

I like how he says "i am here to proove that islam is only
perfect religion in this world and no one
can critisizze islam "

[BeyondQabil]

as you see or mention there is big contradiction inthe bible that is why we muslims say" the Bible is human"
paul says some thing and he is real founder of christianity " and peter says something: i am asking what jesus says were is gospel of jesus instead of mark,mathew .john"

Now, that's where my point is headed; if you cannot/do not agree, that the Bible IS the infallible word of God, then you shouldn't use it to prove that "Jesus denied his divinity." "Or that Jesus isn't the LORD of Lords." For how can you use the Bible that you doubt its accuracy to prove that Jesus denied his divinity?

"aslo please note that 82% of the "words of Jesus" found in the Bible were apparently never spoken by him"means are not his" that is why u can see alot of contradiction in bible"

I'd like to know where you got your research from. I Studied the Bible in great depth from 4th Grade through high school (Form 4) and i do not see this anywhere.

alhamdulilaih u mention these verses "john 8:4-11" these verses srongly disapprove jesus divinity becuase when they come to him they said "law of moses pbuh commanded us,means there was a guidence from god before jesus then the jesus reply was stone her that is penalty of adultry in all three dive religions(islam.christianty.judiasim)

I do not get you here. Jesus didn't say stone her: he asked, "let the first among you without sin stone her?" And nobody did. Stoning to death has NEVER been a penalty of adultery in Christianity.

As for the issue of Moses' law, there's a similar passage that talks about the law of moses:

19:3 Then some Pharisees came to him in order to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful to divorce a wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and will be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?” 8 Jesus said to them, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hard hearts, but from the beginning it was not this way. 9 Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the case of a husband with a wife, it is better not to marry!” 11 He said to them, “Not everyone can accept this statement, except those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are some eunuchs who were that way from birth, and some who were made eunuchs by others, and some who became eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who is able to accept this should accept it.”

Another Verse where it appears as if he contradicts the Law of moses

3 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

if you look at"john 12-49" u will know that jesus was not divne
I don't speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it"
your above mentioned statement and whta is in the bible made jesus double face person "saying something one time "and another time something else"

Because the Jews understood WHAT he meant when he said that/ That is why i asked you, why did the Jews want to stone him AFTER he said the words in RED? (Read my previous post.)

"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him."

They wanted to stone him because he was claiming to be God. The very moment Jesus said, "Before Abraham Was, I AM, , the Jews knew that he was referring to himself as God. When Moses asked God what his name was, God answered "I Am That I Am" (Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh) which is One of the Seven names of God that Cannot be deleted once written (Jewish tradition.)

and first bible was written 80-or 100 years after jesus christ pbuh " people lying on jesus"with any proove" paul is a person who invented the christianity not jesus
thatt is why islam try and guide people a better understanding of jesus and also defending him because he is one of greatest god,s messengers to mankind

The Bible is a collection of Many books; some written during the times of Moses and others after the death of Jesus. If you had read the Bible, you couldn't say that the Bible was written 80 years after Christ (Even the letters) for the simple reason that we have record in the Bible of Peter/John/Paul going into the Temple after the death of Christ. How could they go to the temple 80 years after the death of Christ when the Jewish temple was destroyed AD 70?

Your view of the Bible stems mainly from Hearsay; Paul teaches on Grace. Remember that Paul himself was a pharisee at that. And the conversion of paul wasn't even written by paul himself, but Luke the Physician.

[nasradiin32]

mr beyond "
it is not my search that the 82% of the words of jesus in the bible not his It was the result of a six year study by 24 Christian scholars from a number of Western universities."
Eighty-two percent of the words ascribed to Jesus in the gospels were not actually spoken by him."
when i said first bible was written 60- 80 years after jesus pbuh i meant what is known the new tastement"gospels or injiil"during this 80 years there was no single christian book at all "is there any gospel according to jesus"no at all" ask your masters "why we don,t have gospel according to jesus pbuh if he is a real founder of christianity" why" paul-paul "paul
remember i am talking about gospels "mathew.mark,john"luke u can,t deny it is a fact "paul was sending letters to vilaages and towns did not wrote any book
as u know jesus came to re organize or renew the law of moses pbuh and to remind israelis that they went wrong way " but i reallyy don,t know how u understand when jesus pbuh said " let the first among you without sin stone her" meaning is clear she deserves stoning and as it was law of moses it is my law also "why u trying to play games man
you studied Bible in great depth from 4th Grade and you don,t what is meaning of this"amazing

[BeyondQabil]

mr beyond "
it is not my search that the 82% of the words of jesus in the bible not his It was the result of a six year study by 24 Christian scholars from a number of Western universities." Eighty-two percent of the words ascribed to Jesus in the gospels were not actually spoken by him."

Good. Since it wasn't you that came up with the research, I'll let it pass. The scholars can say whatever they want; they never wrote the Bible. Peter wasn't a scholar, neither was Abraham.

when i said first bible was written 60- 80 years after jesus pbuh i meant what is known the new tastement"gospels or injiil"during this 80 years there was no single christian book at all "is there any gospel according to jesus"no at all" ask your masters "why we don,t have gospel according to jesus pbuh if he is a real founder of christianity" why" paul-paul "paul

Who are my masters?

Again, your Logic is flawed; so who is the founder of Judaism? Or better still, who is the founder of Islam?

remember i am talking about gospels "mathew.mark,john"luke u can,t deny it is a fact "paul was sending letters to vilaages and towns did not wrote any book

What do you mean "Paul didn't write any book?" Arent these letters the very books that we are Talking about? Isn't the Gospel according to Luke a letter by itself to (Theophilus,) ditto the Book of Acts? Isn't the last prophetic book in the Bible "The Revelation" a letter to seven churches?

as u know jesus came to re organize or renew the law of moses pbuh and to remind israelis that they went wrong way " but i reallyy don,t know how u understand when jesus pbuh said "

Where did you get the Idea that Jesus came to re-organize the law of Moses; are we still basing our debate on the Bible? Jesus himself said, he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

let the first among you without sin stone her" meaning is clear she deserves stoning and as it was law of moses it is my law also "why u trying to play games man. you studied Bible in great depth from 4th Grade and you don,t what is meaning of this"amazing

Yours is indeed a funny interpretation. Did Moses EVER say that a person shall only be stoned by people who are SINLESS?

There are two verses in the Bible that talk about killing an adulterer, and NONE of them talks about being sinless:

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shall you put away evil from Israel

If Jesus wanted them to stone her, why would he ask the person who is sinless and then go ahead and ask the woman whether anyone has condemned her...and then say, neither do i?

Why didn't Jesus stone her himself?

This clearly showed, that Jesus didn't want her stoned.

[nasradiin32]

mr beyond let me make clear three points" but first let me thank you for your time and pateint"
first point" your main problem is that you study bible as you said and yet you don,t know "you qoute verses from bible and still u denying "

Jesus himself said, he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. " i agree with u that but u should understand two things
1-he came to fulfill the law of god not his own and he did not say my law ,did not say i am here to dei for you sin" did not say i am son of god"did not say all what christians are claiming today"
2-he came to fulfill the prophets" this is what we muslims beleive" allah sent him to guide israelis and he was one of tens of prophets that allah sent down to israelis(from moses pbuh to jesus) not africans neither europians" nor americans "

yes mr beyond jesus came to re organize torah or moses book and law and that is why bible consist two part"old testamnts like :genesis.exodus" leveticus.numbers and so.soo
new tastements "like mark :luke, mathew"john so and so"if u studied bible and u didn,t know this it is amazing"why each religion did not have own holly book?
point two"
There are two verses in the Bible that talk about killing an adulterer, and NONE of them talks about being sinless"
yes it is not codition that the stoning an adulterer :sinless"and i agree that the man and woman should same punishments " if both of them get married before" as islam defined clearly or any person either man or woman who get married before commited adultery will face stoning this i a law of god from all main three religions before christians and jewish made changes in thier holly books "
point three" If Jesus wanted them to stone her" Why didn't Jesus stone her himself?

don,t forget they came to him and ask some thing and he asnwered" the porblem is not jesus pbuh "the problem is ask them to do something but they did not obey and they rejected
finally "if u beleive that the bible is 100% perfect or god,s words u are wrong "there are some vesres that still looks like genuene or god,s word "3/4 of bible is historian words "rest may be jesus pbuh words"
in islam we have all these kind of books but separately" q
quran "hadeeth"like bukhari muslim.abu,daud"history books like "bidaya wa nihaya:tarikh umam wal muluuk" ibn hisham"ibn ishaq
the problem in the bible every thing in one place and aslo you may think that some verses from shaydan and i am sorry to say that but it is reality and truth exposed
did you ever read these verses in the bible"
Lot and His Daughters" genesis 19-30-38
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab[a]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites[c] of today" daughters got pregnant from their father is this from god?
genesis 35-22"
While Israel lived in that land, Reuben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine. And Israel heard of it.
Now the sons of Jacob were twelve"son sleeping with his mother in law" is this from god?
genesis"38-15-16
When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face.
Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, “Come now, let me sleep with you.”
“And what will you give me to sleep with you?” she asked father in law wants to have a sex with daughter in law"
amazing sex book or holly book" be note still we are in the first book of bible" genesis"
we have same things in so many parts in bible
do u thing or beleive these as a god,s word or did u study deeper and deeper these verses in your school" what do u think?

[Caesar]

are you somali christian, were u parents orphans how did they become christian?

[nasradiin32]

kkkk caesar if u are sleeping wake up man
read and understand the topics and what si going on
am i defending islam and prophet jesus or christianity? what is wrong with u man?
if u can,t read probably u need to change your lenses"
also if u are not learned person u don,t need to follow us ;stay away
like this question "are u christian"?why u don,t ask mr beyodqabiil" because he trying as much as he can to defend bible and christianity"

[Caesar]

lol kaftaan yo

[BeyondQabil]

mr beyond let me make clear three points" but first let me thank you for your time and pateint"

Thank you for your patience too.

first point" your main problem is that you study bible as you said and yet you don,t know "you qoute verses from bible and still u denying "Jesus himself said, he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. " i agree with u that but u should understand two things
-he came to fulfill the law of god not his own and he did not say my law ,did not say i am here to dei for you sin" did not say i am son of god"did not say all what Christians are claiming today"

The first problem is that when you make allegations, and i refute them, you do not respond to it, and neither do you answer the questions that i asked. Sometimes, i even put it in RED, so that you don't claim that you didn't see it, but it's obvious you are evading.

The first part (about Jesus dying for the sins of man,) i know where it is coming from - from the Islamic teaching that says that Jesus never died on the Cross and that he never resurrected. So here's Jesus himself saying it:

Mathew 20:18-19

Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Luke:18:31-33

Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Jesus did Not Call Himself the Son OF God

Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods?

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say you of him, whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, You blaspheme; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. (It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom you love is sick. When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

he came to fulfill the prophets" this is what we muslims beleive" allah sent him to guide israelis and he was one of tens of prophets that allah sent down to israelis(from moses pbuh to jesus) not africans neither europians" nor americans "

I agree, this is what Muslims believe. Not Christians. Do you base this belief on the Bible? Certainly not! It would be illogical to expect Christians to base their belief on the Koran.

yes mr beyond jesus came to re organize torah or moses book and law and that is why bible consist two part"old testamnts like :genesis.exodus" leveticus.numbers and so.soo new tastements "like mark :luke, mathew"john so and so"if u studied bible and u didn,t know this it is amazing"why each religion did not have own holly book?

I know that there are two Testaments - the Old and New. And the difference between the two is not a blank page. Where did you get this idea that Jesus came to re-organize the law? Is it biblical? Nope!

yes it is not codition that the stoning an adulterer :sinless"and i agree that the man and woman should same punishments " if both of them get married before" as islam defined clearly or any person either man or woman who get married before commited adultery will face stoning this i a law of god from all main three religions before christians and jewish made changes in thier holly books "

Stoning of Adulterers is present in the Old Testament, so i do not understand what you mean about changes in the holy book of the Jews. Is there is specific verse in the Torah and the prophets that you would like to bring out?

If stoning of the Adulterers was permissible by Jesus, why did he add that you must be sinless? Is there any person that you know to be sinless?
point three"

don,t forget they came to him and ask some thing and he asnwered" the porblem is not jesus pbuh "the problem is ask them to do something but they did not obey and they rejected

The law is not selective. Why didn't he obey the law as was laid down by Moses? He as the prophet should have shown the way by stoning. Shouldn't that have been the case? You are surely stretching this; aren't you?

finally "if u beleive that the bible is 100% perfect or god,s words u are wrong "there are some vesres that still looks like genuene or god,s word "3/4 of bible is historian words "rest may be jesus pbuh words"
in islam we have all these kind of books but separately" q
quran "hadeeth"like bukhari muslim.abu,daud"history books like "bidaya wa nihaya:tarikh umam wal muluuk" ibn hisham"ibn ishaq
the problem in the bible every thing in one place and aslo you may think that some verses from shaydan and i am sorry to say that but it is reality and truth exposed
did you ever read these verses in the bible"
Lot and His Daughters" genesis 19-30-38
amazing sex book or holly book" be note still we are in the first book of bible" genesis"
we have same things in so many parts in bible
do u thing or beleive these as a god,s word or did u study deeper and deeper these verses in your school" what do u think?

So what is the problem: the fact that the Bible recorded these things or you doubt whether these people did these things?

[BeyondQabil]

kkkk caesar if u are sleeping wake up man
read and understand the topics and what si going on
am i defending islam and prophet jesus or christianity? what is wrong with u man?
if u can,t read probably u need to change your lenses"
also if u are not learned person u don,t need to follow us ;stay away
like this question "are u christian"?why u don,t ask mr beyodqabiil" because he trying as much as he can to defend bible and christianity"

Unfortunately, this thread is not about me; it's about whether Jesus claimed to be whom Christians claimed him to be.

[nasradiin32]

mr beyond"
i think your main problem you study bible partially"
u see as u said mathew and luke qoate that jesus pbuh was crucify " it is historian claim no more they don,t any evidence or wiitness that he was crucified
another thing when ever u read a verse in the bible there will be contrdiction between verses example" mathew and luke qoate verses u mentioned"third day he shall rise again. but u have another verse which says" ‎
For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so
will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights"
when u count the time that jesus pbuh was in the heart of earth as christians believe it will be" less than that"
if the thing has contradiction and there is fabrication is not from god " that is why the most hights eminence 32 christain schollars thrown out from the bible"so many things like
‎ John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." u know what they said"they said
These words do not appear in any of the very early copies of the Bible. They were added by someone who was trying to support the Trinity teaching. Since it is clear that these words are not really part of God’s Word, corrections have been made and the words do not appear in newer Bibles"
is not there any more" in revised bible "and u will miss one christian pillars or dogma"
finally "the fact that the Bible recorded these things " these thing are not fom god . and shows that the bible is human :allah swt never talk like that "
when u read the quran which last revelation from god swt "u will see straight"and usefull speech to the mankind "do this "don,t do this:if u do this u will be punished because u disobey god 'if u don,t bad thing or do good thing u will be rewarded" giving examples /; so .so
not father in la asking his daughter in law to have a sex with him " and she reply how much u gonna pay "man shame on u is this from god
i think u need to read bible completly not partially" and beside bible u need also to read holly quran then u will see a diffrence