What subclans of HJ,HY Dhulbahante and warsengeli..

[weydamal]

Ceerigaabo is a small insignificant town compared to Badhan, the fastest growing town in Sanaag, and inhabited exclusively by the noble Warsangeli.

Nonetheless on the history of Ceerigaabo, it is well known that it was founded by the Warsangeli sultanate under the great Warsangeli warrior and general Afdhaal. It has always been a city populated and ruled by Daarood from the Warsangeli Sultanate to the Dervish state under Ina Cabdille Xassan. The habaryoonis and habarjeclo were living in caves in the surrounding mountains during this period and we're not allowed to step in Ceerigaabo and faced severe penalties if they did.

History has recorded that the Warsangeli Sultan used to step on the neck of a habarjeclo man when adressing the iiddoor tribes who were his subjects, from Ceerigaabo all the way to Burco.

These people left their caves after the fall of the Somali government in 1991 and began settling in Ceerigaabo.

Nonetheless Ceerigaabo is majority Harti town as we speak.

[Ben Dover]

The Warsengali are the majority in the region you can't possibly deny that sxb.

Am sure you're familiar with the latest UN population figures which clearly indicates the Warsangeli being majority in Sanaag.
El Afweyn - 100,000
Erigavo - 205,000
Badhan - 239,000

You Isaaq kids seem to have little knowledge on Warsengali. Why don't you explore Google earth and see the number of mid size towns that the Warsengali inhabit? e.g. Badhan, Lasqoray, Dhahar, Hadaftimo, El Buh, Habarshiro, Armale, Yubbe, Hingalol & El Dahir.

Where the only significant towns in the Isaaq side of the region are El Afweyn, Garadag, Yufle and Maydh.

Also, sool and Sanaag are the two largest regions in Somaliland they alone account for 60% of the Somaliland territory.

The people of the regions are spread across a huge area of land plus the majority of the population in these regions are pastoralists, which is why the populations of the regions are underestimated.

I think you would be very surprised.

Ceerigaabo is an Isaaq town, so is the district. You can not argue this point both historically and now. Go a few posts above yours and you will see confirmation most Warsangali moved to Badhan. This is why the town and its surroundings are firmly accepting of Somaliland.

Most of the Warsangali side of Sanaag is empty sxb.

You are also contradicting yourself when you say Warsangeli have more settlements and yet also argue that they are spread out which is why their areas have low population density. You are forgetting that Isaaqs live in the same regions and are equally spread in their area, yet all indications clearly show population density to be higher in Isaaq parts of Sool and Sanaag.

Within Sanaag the population is heavily skewed to the west, there is no doubt about that. The further west you go the more settlements.

You can see that most of the land in the east of Sanaag is unpopulated:







As for your assertion that majority of population are pastoralists, you are correct. But the Isaaq pastoralists greatly outnumber the Warsangali.

Same situation in Sool, your side is sparsely populated:

[Sahibzada]

Sool iyo Sanaag are empty deserts....you would think these negroes would be fighting over Jannah the way they are arguing with eachother

[Sharmarke91]

I think you would be very surprised.

Ceerigaabo is an Isaaq town, so is the district. You can not argue this point both historically and now. Go a few posts above yours and you will see confirmation most Warsangali moved to Badhan. This is why the town and its surroundings are firmly accepting of Somaliland.

Erigavo is a shared city. Historically, I heard it was founded by Hy but currently all four main clans of Sanaag have a presence. The entire Warsengali residents of the town haven't left sxb, there is still a significant community in the city.
Hadi runta la isu sheegana Magaalada sidan baa loogu kala badanyahay ama jeclow ama nebcow. Hy-Dhulos-Warsan-HJ. Inkasto Habr Yonista iyo Dhulbahanta degan magaalada aysan aad u kala badnayn.

The district is also majority Harti, see the following map.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/6417/ASsaC1.jpg

Also, the south and east of the city is a firm Dhulbahante territory.

Most of the Warsangali side of Sanaag is empty sxb.

You are also contradicting yourself when you say Warsangeli have more settlements and yet also argue that they are spread out which is why their areas have low population density. You are forgetting that Isaaqs live in the same regions and are equally spread in their area, yet all indications clearly show population density to be higher in Isaaq parts of Sool and Sanaag.

I haven't contradicted myself sxb, am saying in general the two regions of Sool and Sanaag are considered to be less populous irrespective of the clans, than the eastern regions. This due to people not taking into account that these regions account for nearly 60% of the Somaliland territory, therefore, the population of the regions are spread out in the vast lands and they're just as popular as the other regions.

That density map is bogus - are you telling me Aynaba, El Afweyn and Dhahar? are more populated than Las Anod and Buuhoodle districts?

If you look at the towns of the Warsengali and the Isaaq in Sanaag you will see that the Warsengali have over 10 midsized towns, were the Isaaq have about 4 towns. So, this alone should lead you to believe the majority of the sanaag population is concentrated in the Warsengali side of the region. Plus there is the UN population survey which does confirm this.



Within Sanaag the population is heavily skewed to the west, there is no doubt about that. The further west you go the more settlements.


You can see that most of the land in the east of Sanaag is unpopulated:







As for your assertion that majority of population are pastoralists, you are correct. But the Isaaq pastoralists greatly outnumber the Warsangali.

Do you have proof other than that density map?

According to the UN population figures. The rural population of Sanaag;

El Afweyn - 73,000
Erigavo - 119,00
Badhan - 190,000

Same situation in Sool, your side is sparsely populated:

in Sool,the rural population;
Las Anod - 76,000
Taleh - 60,00
Aynaba - 38,00
Hudun - 28,000

City of Erigavo - HY majority (closely followed by Dhulbahante )
Erigavo District - Harti majority
Sanaag region - Warsengali majority

[Ben Dover]

You are arguing for the sake of arguing sxb.

You accept HY is majority in Ceerigaabo, but you also include Dhulos as a second 'close' runner up. Shit makes no sense. You have no proof of that, the only thing you have is the bogus number of local council reps, which is not a good indicator as discussed many times before, but even if we take that number, you are no where near HY in terms of reps. So either do not use the number and continue claiming you are a close second, or use it and accept you are a tiny minority in the town.

Ceerigaabo as a district is clear Isaaq majority. Since the 1960s whenever there is election an Isaaq man wins in that district. That is a fact. That map you've included is pure fantasy

You claim the density map is bogus, why ? Because it shows your deegaan to be empty?

Let us stop for a moment, and discuss your presence in Sanaag. You talk about Warsangeli and Isaaq towns in Sanaag, and their size, what about you mr beesha SSC? Enlighten us as to where you live and the size of your towns in Sanaag such that you self titled your clan SSC.

In terms of settlements and population density all the maps clearly show more people living in the west, the east of Sanaag is very sparsely populated.

Another density map for you:



All maps show east Sanaag is sparse. Its mostly empty land. Most nomads are on West side of the region. See all the activity above Ceerigaabo all the way to Maydh, that is our farming and frankincense communities, notice how less and less people live in the Calmadow as you travel west. The rest of the population is entirely on the west side of the region.

The numbers are coming out soon anyway, the voter registration is complete, I hope you will accept those number as they will be the most accurate we have.

[Sharmarke91]

Let us stop for a moment, and discuss your presence in Sanaag. You talk about Warsangeli and Isaaq towns in Sanaag, and their size, what about you mr beesha SSC? Enlighten us as to where you live and the size of your towns in Sanaag such that you self titled your clan SSC.

The numbers are coming out soon anyway, the voter registration is complete, I hope you will accept those number as they will be the most accurate we have.

These our degaans in Erigavo district.

1 - Ceerigaabo (Magaalo)
2 - Jiidali
3 - Masagan
4 - Dib Qarax
5 - Kulaal
6 - Ardaa
7 - Damala Xagare
8 - Fiqifuliye
9 - Awrboogays
10 - Sarmaanyo
11 - Xabaalo Camare
12 - Boodacade

and many others that I don't know currently.

The most accurate numbers we have at the moment is those produced by UNFPA so why can't you accept them for the time being?

[Ben Dover]

These our degaans in Erigavo district.

1 - Ceerigaabo (Magaalo)
2 - Jiidali
3 - Masagan
4 - Dib Qarax
5 - Kulaal
6 - Ardaa
7 - Damala Xagare
8 - Fiqifuliye
9 - Awrboogays
10 - Sarmaanyo
11 - Xabaalo Camare
12 - Boodacade

and many others that I don't know currently.

The most accurate numbers we have at the moment is those produced by UNFPA so why can't you accept them for the time being?

Abti put the txt file down for second

Anyone can come up with a list of names. What deegaan of any significance do you have in Sanaag?

Which districts?

Did you ever get any reps elected in Sanaag since the 1960s?

What exactly do you have other than a list saved in a txt file and the 5 local council members you got out of sheer luck?

Did you even check any of the names you've listed on google maps?

Can you point out your deegaan on the population density map?

Out of the four subclans Dhulos have the smallest footprint in the region, yet you are the only subclan to claim Sanaag in your title beesha SSC, delusional

The most accurate numbers we have at the moment is those produced by UNFPA so why can't you accept them for the time being?

The most accurate numbers will be the voter registration numbers. Would you accept them when they come out?

[Sharmarke91]

These our degaans in Erigavo district.

1 - Ceerigaabo (Magaalo)
2 - Jiidali
3 - Masagan
4 - Dib Qarax
5 - Kulaal
6 - Ardaa
7 - Damala Xagare
8 - Fiqifuliye
9 - Awrboogays
10 - Sarmaanyo
11 - Xabaalo Camare
12 - Boodacade

and many others that I don't know currently.

The most accurate numbers we have at the moment is those produced by UNFPA so why can't you accept them for the time being?

Abti put the txt file down for second

Anyone can come up with a list of names. What deegaan of any significance do you have in Sanaag?
Fiqifuliye, Awrbogays and Jidaali are the main settlements of the Naleya Ahmed in Sanaag.

Which districts?
Fiqifuliye District. The district was proposed prior to the civil war by the Siad Barre government but, the government collapsed before it was created. Presently it's recognised as a district by both Somaliland and Puntland. The only clan of the four clans in Sanaag that has exclusive districts are the Warsengali (out of the 5 original districts).

Did you ever get any reps elected in Sanaag since the 1960s?
The elections of 1960 were a complete fabricated firstly, example Erigavo district, HJ got 2 MPs, HY 1 and Warsans 2. We did get an MP elected from Erigavo in 1964. I don't have any information on the elections of 1969. Obviously, the elections conducted by Somaliland in 2002 the Dhulbahante did not participate.

What exactly do you have other than a list saved in a txt file and the 5 local council members you got out of sheer luck?
6 actually, and what does luck got to do with it sxb? could you imagine if the majority of the Dhulbahante electorate participated in those local eletions, i believe we would of got at least 9 councillors.

Did you even check any of the names you've listed on google maps?

I Can you tell me one single town that is inhabited by only one of the Isaaq clans of Sanaag?
Only Warsengali have significant towns that exclusively settle.

Can you point out your deegaan on the population density map?
Abti, am not going to believe in a bogus dentisty map that shows El Afweyn being more populated than Buhodle let alone Las Anod!
Get some other source to proof your point.

Out of the four subclans Dhulos have the smallest footprint in the region, yet you are the only subclan to claim Sanaag in your title beesha SSC, delusional

We only claim our part of the region, have you ever heard a Dhulbahante claiming El Afweyn or Badhan?

The most accurate numbers we have at the moment is those produced by UNFPA so why can't you accept them for the time being?

The most accurate numbers will be the voter registration numbers. Would you accept them when they come out?

are you serious? barely anybody registered in southern and eastern Sanaag indr, so how do you expect me to accept them?

laakin why can't you accept the UNFPA figures??? after all the Somaliland government approved of them were Puntland totally rejected them.

[Ben Dover]

Fiqifuliye, Awrbogays and Jidaali are the main settlements of the Naleya Ahmed in Sanaag.

That is my point. You only have 3 villages in Sanaag, you should drop Sanaag from SSC. Did you see their location on the population density map? Barely anyone lives there.

And Fiqifuliye was not a district sxb, nagadaa bahasha dee

There are 3 districts, CeelAfweyn, Ceerigaabo, and Lasqorey. The 5 districts you are citing are the Siad Barre booli qaran, he gave you so many regions and districts to gerrymander any future election. In reality both Sool and Sanaag should come under Burco.

And let me get this right:

- You reject the British patrol map, the most detailed study of where clans live to ever be conducted in Somaliland. It was made for the purpose of policing the clans so it is not biased, and clearly showed sparse population in Sanaag east.

- You reject the first ever elections to take place in the 1960s, when you did not elect any MP and Isaaq got 3 whereas Warsans got 2.

- You reject population density maps by international organisations not affiliated with Isaaq. Clearly showing more Isaaq live in Sanaag than Warsangeli, with your footprint being negligible.

- You reject other maps showing east is sparsely settled whereas the west has a lot more settlements.

- You reject Somaliland voter registration numbers, the most technologically secure voter registration system in the world, even before you see the numbers.

Dee sheekada waad naga xumaysay

And finally, I leave you with this map with regards to Ceerigaabo:



Say no more fam

[SuldaanOfSanaag]

ben Dover
Ssc now formally known as just SC


History lesson of laangaanimo in Sanaag

[Sharmarke91]

LMAO Sxb you avoid my questions and you failed to provide authentic sources to verify and support your assertions. Therefore it's impossible to have a reasonable and rational discussion with you.

Let me repeat again in conclusion (bal inay kuu dhadhacdo):

- UNFPA population statistics of 2014 shows that the overwhelming majority of the population is concentrated in Badhan/Lasqoray districts; followed by the shared district of Erigavo.

- The majority of the towns and villages in the region are also concentrated in eastern Sanaag. Which again supports the figures produced by UNFPA.

- The Naleya Ahmed gained 6 sits in the city council of Erigavo even though they had not participated in the elections like the HJ & HY.

- The deputy governor of Sanaag & deputy mayor of Erigavo are Dhulbahante.

All these point to;
- Sanaag being majority Warsengali
- Erigavo district being shared by all four clans ( ha loo kala badnaade)


The only source you have in your arsenal is the bogus density map that shows El Afweyn being more popular than Las Anod LMAO. Which international organisation made it?? and give the link.

Don't Isaaqs settle in in Aynaba why haven't they gained a sit in Las Anod district in 1960? and the Dhulbahante of Buhoodle? is that an election that could be demed democratic and representative of the people.

cala kuli xaal sxb waxba meesha kuma haysid! marka lets agree to disagree.

[Ben Dover]

The only source you have in your arsenal is the bogus density map that shows El Afweyn being more popular than Las Anod LMAO. Which international organisation made it?? and give the link.

Don't Isaaqs settle in in Aynaba why haven't they gained a sit in Las Anod district in 1960? and the Dhulbahante of Buhoodle? is that an election that could be demed democratic and representative of the people.

Its CIA sxb. Bal maxaad kasheegi

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/t ... ensity.jpg

Another map you will not accept



You are conflating two different subjects. Dhulbahante have 3 villages in Ceerigaabo district, which is why I mentioned the 1960 election (or any election for that matter). Notice that within Sanaag, Isaaq got majority (3 seats), Warsangeli got their share too (2 seats) yet Dhulbahante got nothing. This was based on numbers, you can not chuck it up to Somaliland if it was in the 1960s, all the numbers are published.

Ainaba on the other hand is not in Laascanood district (wtf I am teaching Dhulbahante about Sool ). Isaaq always got representation in Ainabo, and Dhulbahante always got representation in Buuhoodle. But Dhulbahante never won parliamentary elections in Sanaag is my point.

[Sharmarke91]

The only source you have in your arsenal is the bogus density map that shows El Afweyn being more popular than Las Anod LMAO. Which international organisation made it?? and give the link.

Don't Isaaqs settle in in Aynaba why haven't they gained a sit in Las Anod district in 1960? and the Dhulbahante of Buhoodle? is that an election that could be demed democratic and representative of the people.

Its CIA sxb. Bal maxaad kasheegi

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/t ... ensity.jpg

Another map you will not accept Didn't you say the area between Erigavo and Maydh are the most populated in the region? why is it empty in this map?



You are conflating two different subjects. Dhulbahante have 3 villages in Ceerigaabo district, which is why I mentioned the 1960 election (or any election for that matter). Notice that within Sanaag, Isaaq got majority (3 seats), Warsangeli got their share too (2 seats) yet Dhulbahante got nothing. This was based on numbers, you can not chuck it up to Somaliland if it was in the 1960s, all the numbers are published.

Ainaba on the other hand is not in Laascanood district (wtf I am teaching Dhulbahante about Sool ). Isaaq always got representation in Ainabo, and Dhulbahante always got representation in Buuhoodle. But Dhulbahante never won parliamentary elections in Sanaag is my point.

Ok, if the 1960 elections were representative are you saying there are more HJ than HY in Sanaag? because they got 2 sits were HY got 1.

According to this old British map, there were equal numbers of the four tribes present in Sanaag.
Note - The HY (Muse Abokor are split between those in eastern Sahil and western Sanaag; 20,000 in each region)



Caynabo was part of Las Anod district sxb, and a Dhulbahante gentleman called Mohamed Yusuf Geedeye was elected there in 1960. This was when the Dhulbahante mainly inhabited it.
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/images2/ ... plarge.jpg

I was under the impression, that the British made alterations to the district boundaries in the 1950s and added Buuhoodle into Burao, because they didn't want a district which was solely occupied by Dhulbahante.
So, under the current 6 regions of Somaliland does Buhodle come under Sool, since the regions are based on the boundaries of the pre 1960 districts?

[Sharmarke91]

.

[Ben Dover]

If you are talking about the entire gobol then yes, HY dominate capital and HJ spillover from their district into Ceerigaabo district. Look back at any previous election and HY would get most votes in Ceerigaabo but HJ would have more votes in Sanaag.

Going by your own map, there will be more Muse Abokor living in Sanaag than in east Saaxil. Only segments of the reer Yoonis live in Saaxil with Xasan Daahir (not Muuse Abokor). But in Sanaag you have Biciide and Uduruxmiin. Biciide being the largest HJ subclan. They cant possibly be half and half. You can see from the density map more activity in western Sanaag/Cayn area than east Saaxil. I also do not understand why it does not show the Muse Abokor in Cayn.

Both Caynaba and Laascanood came under Burco as there were only two regions, North West and North East.