Debate: Concept of Ogadenia

[NoAngst.]

How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.

[The_Patriot]

[quote="Somaliweyn"]First, there is no place for people with defeatist attidute.

This debate concerns people who believe in the Somali future, people who are confident that we will eventually prevail over the Abbysinians.

--

Secondly,

Patriot,

Post-conflict plan is needed, because we all know the Xabasha incite and fuel conflicts, but the real underlying causes for conflicts lie primarly within ourselves. Look at Somalia.

ONLF should become an example to Somali groups in showing the road to independence, but they should not assume a threatening ideology in the sense of: ''a clan-based nation-state'' next door to Somalia proper.[/quote]
they do they resolve conflicts btw the locals.

One thing funny though is ONLF has other somalis within it though they are a minority,
you will be shocked to see some idoor, mj , shekhal and others in the organisation.

[The_Patriot]

[quote="NoAngst."]How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.[/quote]

Xabashi do not recognise Somalis/ogadenis the thing is they are buying on time time will enable their gradual plan to be intact like the cleansing of somalis in that region and resettling in it.

What they are currently doing is a pschodrama.

But the thing is that they heavily really on the foreign aid budget which mostly goes to oppressing the people.
You cant continue oppressing them, evidently shown by the lack of morale of Ethiopian soilders fighting in the Ogaden.

[Somaliweyn]

[quote="NoAngst."]How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.[/quote]

Look at this defeatist attidute.

One the person says: Xabashi are not your enemy, Meles is.

Before Meles Zenawi, we had men like Mengistu, Haile Selassi, Menelik etc. All different men in different periods and from different ethnicities (but both Abbysinians). Yet, Meles is no different then the ones before him, in some respects he is more harsh then them. So who is our enemy? Meles or the Abbysinians?

History proves my point.

--

Second, the person says:

''It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them''

We can get along with them if they stay away from our security interest within the Horn of Africa. If they stop massacring Somali people, stop invading Somali lands, and stop meddling into Somali affaires, there is nothing that can stop friendship between the two of us.

But, as history has shown and as the current reality on the ground shows, Abbysinians are bent on making Somalis the next Oromo's. And this is something brave, proud Somalis cannot accept.

They have started a game, they will surely lose. They may have the factors in their advantage now, but I see no reason why I should believe that this will be the case in say the next 30 years. Remember, it was just 30 years ago that Somalia invaded Ethiopia and had to be pushed out by a socialist alliance of countries while TPLF was a juniour partner of EPLF and just learning to walk. Now, the same TPLF that could not stand on its own feet at the time we were close to victory, is at our gates, occupying our capital and destroying the lives of millions of Somalis.

Again, give me one reason why I should believe that in the coming 30 years, the odds will not change into our favour?

[fagash_killer]

[quote="The_Patriot"][quote="Somaliweyn"]First, there is no place for people with defeatist attidute.

This debate concerns people who believe in the Somali future, people who are confident that we will eventually prevail over the Abbysinians.

--

Secondly,

Patriot,

Post-conflict plan is needed, because we all know the Xabasha incite and fuel conflicts, but the real underlying causes for conflicts lie primarly within ourselves. Look at Somalia.

ONLF should become an example to Somali groups in showing the road to independence, but they should not assume a threatening ideology in the sense of: ''a clan-based nation-state'' next door to Somalia proper.[/quote]
they do they resolve conflicts btw the locals.

One thing funny though is ONLF has other somalis within it though they are a minority,
you will be shocked to see some idoor, mj , shekhal and others in the organisation.[/quote]


if its true than i would say they dont know any better onlf is playing a dirty strategy with them they are challenging the ethio troops out when that happends they flee to the mountians ore out of the city ore hide behind civialians the ethiopian troops do have to take orders and do their job even if they have to kill civialans when that happends the onlf will tell the civiallians join the struggle if you want to be free these guys will do it out of anger and out of afriadness without knowing things.

[The_Patriot]

[quote="fagash_killer"][quote="The_Patriot"][quote="Somaliweyn"]First, there is no place for people with defeatist attidute.

This debate concerns people who believe in the Somali future, people who are confident that we will eventually prevail over the Abbysinians.

--

Secondly,

Patriot,

Post-conflict plan is needed, because we all know the Xabasha incite and fuel conflicts, but the real underlying causes for conflicts lie primarly within ourselves. Look at Somalia.

ONLF should become an example to Somali groups in showing the road to independence, but they should not assume a threatening ideology in the sense of: ''a clan-based nation-state'' next door to Somalia proper.[/quote]
they do they resolve conflicts btw the locals.

One thing funny though is ONLF has other somalis within it though they are a minority,
you will be shocked to see some idoor, mj , shekhal and others in the organisation.[/quote]


id if its true than i would say they dont know any better onlf is playing a dirty strategy with them they are challenging the ethio troops out when that happends they flee to the mountians ore out of the city ore hide behind civialians the ethiopian troops do have to take orders and do their job even if they have to kill civialans when that happends the onlf will tell the civiallians join the struggle if you want to be free these guys will do it out of anger without knowing things.[/quote]

Faqah of all the supporters of SNM

[fagash_killer]

[quote="NoAngst."]How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.[/quote]

well said these ppl are forgetting we live in 2007 in ethiopian calendar 2000 how do the ethios see the somalis in ogadenia as their enemy than you can say they hate their own ppl since ogadenia is part of ethiopian in ethiopia you have 80 different ethnic different tribes living their in peace. even the goverment cant do it. but if it was on the goverment than i could understand it than they would had been seen as ethiopian rebelgroups as the media is describing the onlf.

[fagash_killer]

[quote="The_Patriot"][quote="fagash_killer"][quote="The_Patriot"][quote="Somaliweyn"]First, there is no place for people with defeatist attidute.

This debate concerns people who believe in the Somali future, people who are confident that we will eventually prevail over the Abbysinians.

--

Secondly,

Patriot,

Post-conflict plan is needed, because we all know the Xabasha incite and fuel conflicts, but the real underlying causes for conflicts lie primarly within ourselves. Look at Somalia.

ONLF should become an example to Somali groups in showing the road to independence, but they should not assume a threatening ideology in the sense of: ''a clan-based nation-state'' next door to Somalia proper.[/quote]
they do they resolve conflicts btw the locals.

One thing funny though is ONLF has other somalis within it though they are a minority,
you will be shocked to see some idoor, mj , shekhal and others in the organisation.[/quote]


id if its true than i would say they dont know any better onlf is playing a dirty strategy with them they are challenging the ethio troops out when that happends they flee to the mountians ore out of the city ore hide behind civialians the ethiopian troops do have to take orders and do their job even if they have to kill civialans when that happends the onlf will tell the civiallians join the struggle if you want to be free these guys will do it out of anger without knowing things.[/quote]

Faqah of all the supporters of SNM[/quote]


^^come again

[The_Patriot]

[quote="fagash_killer"][quote="NoAngst."]How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.[/quote]

well said these ppl are forgetting we live in 2007 in ethiopian calendar 2000 how do the ethios see the somalis in ogadenia as their enemy than you can say they hate their own ppl since ogadenia is part of ethiopian in ethiopia you have 80 different etnitic different tribes living their in peace. even the goverment cant do it. but if it was on the goverment than i could understand it than they would had been seen as ethiopian rebelgroups as the media is describing the onlf.[/quote]
yes coming from a successionist
thinking that the they will be sole benefactors from the misery of the ogaden.

[fagash_killer]

[quote="The_Patriot"][quote="fagash_killer"][quote="NoAngst."]How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.[/quote]

well said these ppl are forgetting we live in 2007 in ethiopian calendar 2000 how do the ethios see the somalis in ogadenia as their enemy than you can say they hate their own ppl since ogadenia is part of ethiopian in ethiopia you have 80 different etnitic different tribes living their in peace. even the goverment cant do it. but if it was on the goverment than i could understand it than they would had been seen as ethiopian rebelgroups as the media is describing the onlf.[/quote]
yes coming from a successionist
thinking that the they will be sole benefactors from the misery of the ogaden.[/quote]


im no seccesionist sxb and i dont attack the onlf cuss of tribal reasons but more with facts unlike you who support them on tribalism cuss i can see where you are coming you dont even know me how dare you to say seccesionist if you cant debate than leave the room i would say

[The_Patriot]

[quote="fagash_killer"][quote="The_Patriot"][quote="fagash_killer"][quote="NoAngst."]How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.[/quote]

well said these ppl are forgetting we live in 2007 in ethiopian calendar 2000 how do the ethios see the somalis in ogadenia as their enemy than you can say they hate their own ppl since ogadenia is part of ethiopian in ethiopia you have 80 different etnitic different tribes living their in peace. even the goverment cant do it. but if it was on the goverment than i could understand it than they would had been seen as ethiopian rebelgroups as the media is describing the onlf.[/quote]
yes coming from a successionist
thinking that the they will be sole benefactors from the misery of the ogaden.[/quote]


im no sessenisiost sxb and i dont attack the onlf cuss of tribal reasons but more with facts unlike you who support them on tribalism cuss i can see where you are coming you dont even know me how dare you to say seccesnitions if you cant debate than leave the room i would say[/quote]

dude i do support onlf coz of tribal as well as any LF that fights Ethiopians.
My uncle is at the moment in prison for his 'supposed' links to ONLF, as for you yours is a fadhi kudirir and a hater who has no remose for people being executed in the pretext of fighting ONLF.
I guess you derive pleasure from the scenario.

if you are not successionist whats Faqash killer then?

[NoAngst.]

Somaliweyn.... the problem with arm-chair generals like yourself is that you want the sons, daughters and relatives of other people to be sacrificed for the war you call but prolly not your own. It's easy to call for violent struggle when you don't you have to fight yourself. What's worse you want them to sacrifice for a cause that has no clear goal. What are the ONLF fighting for? No one knows. There are competeting aims from regional autonomy to independence to union with Somalia.

You are right about the oppression of Somalis in Somali galbeed but I don't believe there would be the same level of oppression if they the ONLF weren't waging violent insurrection against the Ethiopian state. The ONLF is giving the Ethiopian regime the perfect pretext to do as they wish. You are wrong when you compare the post-mengestu Ethiopia with the old ethiopia. Somalis and all ethnic groups in Ethiopia have more rights and autonomy today than they ever did. The Ethiopian constitution calls for regional autonomy. There's peace every where in Ethiopia except for where there is armed insurrection. So it stands to reason that the best option for the people of Somali galbeed is for the ONLF and other armed groups to lay down their arms and pick up non-violent struggle. The Somali galbeed region is so underdeveloped and ppl there living on the margins that any idea of the place being turned into the epicenter of ONLF vs Ethiopia violent conflict is simply unthinkable. What became of the Shifta in Kenya? People in Somali galbeed are in no position to wage a prolonged armed struggle with no clearly defined goals.

[fagash_killer]

[quote="The_Patriot"][quote="fagash_killer"][quote="The_Patriot"][quote="fagash_killer"][quote="NoAngst."]How exactly would Ogadenia gain independence? Given the prevailing international order, there's no grounds for Ogadenia to seek independence. So independence is out of the question. Regional autonomy is the only prospect in the cards. Given such prospects, you should change your tone towards "xabashi". They're not your enemy, Melez is. What's more ominous they're multiplying like rabbits soon they'll be Africa's most populous nation. It's in the interest of Somalis as a whole to get along with Xabashis. They're not going anywhere no matter how hard you fight them.[/quote]

well said these ppl are forgetting we live in 2007 in ethiopian calendar 2000 how do the ethios see the somalis in ogadenia as their enemy than you can say they hate their own ppl since ogadenia is part of ethiopian in ethiopia you have 80 different etnitic different tribes living their in peace. even the goverment cant do it. but if it was on the goverment than i could understand it than they would had been seen as ethiopian rebelgroups as the media is describing the onlf.[/quote]
yes coming from a successionist
thinking that the they will be sole benefactors from the misery of the ogaden.[/quote]


im no sessenisiost sxb and i dont attack the onlf cuss of tribal reasons but more with facts unlike you who support them on tribalism cuss i can see where you are coming you dont even know me how dare you to say seccesnitions if you cant debate than leave the room i would say[/quote]

dude i do support onlf coz of tribal as well as any LF that fights Ethiopians.
My uncle is at the moment in prison for his 'supposed' links to ONLF, as for you yours is a fadhi kudirir and a hater who has no remose for people being executed in the pretext of fighting ONLF.
I guess you derive pleasure from the scenario.

if you are not successionist whats Faqash killer then?[/quote]

once again i just said facts about the onlf and the situation of ogadenia.im sorry for your uncle who is in prison for his links to onlf.this is called debate sxb i just give my opnion about how i see it. dont let your hatred to what they have done to your uncle attack anyone who doesnt support the onlf. this is actually the same thing when i said onlf is forcing ppl to join the rebelgroup and innocent civialians dont know any better the only thing they have in their mind is revenge since they lost their close one(s) by ethio troops but they dont know what onlf have done before thats the strategy what i ment and now it happend to you i see its called frustration but real men they stay above that.

first off all this is not my nick i only use it. taa labaad i see that you are a beginner with learning qabiil.let me explain you faqash doesnt mean a diss to whole of somalia it means those who worked with siyaad barre goverment.so snm usc ssdf wanted to get rid of the goverment. but that doesnt have to mean that you are a seccesionists cuss not all of them wanted to go solo because they did doesnt have to mean that i have to believe that im a seccesionists. a lesson for you today not to judge others without knowing the other lakiin waa iska caadii here you can fall and stand up you will learn one day.

[new-york23]

isn the president of somaliland a faqash?becouse if i recall he was president siyads personal employee.

[The_Patriot]

no angst
have you visited the region or do you have relatives in the region?
I hope you are not biased in any form

the thing is whether ONLF or not,
Ethiopia keeps on killing civilians,
The Ethiopians need the contracts more than ever,

they have been tellin civilains to clear off large chunks of land to pave way for this developers?
the region spreeds from degaxbuur to shilaabo each location villagers are supposed to move from 30,000sqr miles
they also told the locals to cut all trees as ONLF hide under them,

The locals rejected it ?
in obole where ONLF killed the ethiopian army guarding the gas fileds, it was the locals that called for support after being evicted forcefully by Ethiopian army who used caterpillars to level a vast land of and built trenches around it shooting any gel jire at site.

so people should accept the xabashi policies and live suspended in the air?