keep the Irir alive

[CoolPoisons]

say no to anti Irir

Duriyada Rer Irir Samale

[Addoow]

there is not such thing as irirism,it is a thing of the past.

[CoolPoisons]

there is not such thing as irirism,it is a thing of the past.

^^ what do U mean i thought IIdors and Hawiye were related

[GENERAL_SNM]

there is not such thing as irirism,it is a thing of the past.

To bring down Afewyne

[Addoow]

it was a conspiracy theory invented to get rid of your uncle afweyne and i hope it succeeded.

[CoolPoisons]

Irir existed before 1969 U dumbasses

James Dahl said IIdors and Hawiye are related through Irir Samale

[The_Emperior5]

urur samaale iririms was once siyaasad sicne somaliland was estebleshed it doesent exist

[gurey25]

political conspiracy from the 60's that has succeeded and no longer needed.

[Somaliweyn]

Irir existed before 1969 U dumbasses

James Dahl said IIdors and Hawiye are related through Irir Samale

James Dahl said?

[The_Emperior5]

[James Dahl]

Isaaq aren't technically Irir, only a few Isaaq are descended from Mahe Dir Aji Irir through the female line, the biggest clans are actually descended from a Harari noblewoman.

I guess that's enough though if you want to forge an alliance of convenience, thus the idea of "irirism" being "new" in the north, since Isaaq of old would have been more inclined to form an "arab/nonarab" dichotomy.

I'm not really a primary source, but you don't have to look very far to find out the link, for what it's worth, between Isaaq and Hawiye. It runs through Irir Samaale.

The irony is, Darood actually have a stronger link to Irir Samaale than Isaaq, so that's the fundamental nonsensical point of the modern concept of Irirism. If Isaaq are Irir, then so are Darood.

[Captain24]

Speaking of experience, Isaaq people look down on Hawiye, and call them derogatory names such as 'Gudhu' Qadaad Weyn, Walnaweyn, bantu to name few. It's only Hawiye who play cling on the outdated 'Irrir' card. Desperate times call for desperate measures

[Addoow]

james,you contradicting your self,last time you mentioned that darod is a run away slave called jabarti and you you telling us that they are related to irir!

[ky2008]

Addow, when you say Tarod was this or that, you must come with a clear evidence from history book.
We, Tarod's descendants have evidence that our forefather was a noble man from the Aqeeli
clan of the Hashimis.Do you your self have a single evidence showing that Tarod was a slave?
If want the history of the Tarod bin Isma'il you can get it from here.
http://alaqeeliuon.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3943

James, if you want us to borrow the western culture of a man tracing his geneology through his mother or grandmother, you are really mistaken.In Islam it is forbidden for a person to say that he is member of his mother's clan.You will never hear any Tarod claiming to be Dir or Irir just because Tarod's wife was Dir.

[James Dahl]

The "official rules of Qabiil" may state that membership of a clan must mean direct patrilinear descent from the eponymous ancestor of that clan, but this rule has been bent so many different ways that it is meaningless.

The truth of the matter is that who is part of a clan is a matter of whatever is most convenient for that clan. If what's best for a clan is to forge alliances of convenience or long term strategic partnerships with peripherally or matrilinearily related clans, then that's what they'll do. If what's best for a clan is to "adopt" completely unrelated clans, that's also what they'll do.

What is always understood is that this arrangement is not the same thing as actually being patrilinearily descended from the eponymous ancestor, but you know what, it doesn't matter. Genealogy may be a matter of specifics and hard facts, but politics is a hazy and constantly-shifting matter, where what is convenient is often taken over what is strictly factual.

To understand clan, one must understand that qabiil is different from lineage. Qabiil is, in truth, the broad alliance of mutually interested parties who are often related but not strictly necessarily so, and one's lineage does not actually dictate one's qabiil. The fiction is that this is not true, that qabiil is strictly genealogical, but the clans where this is so are the exception rather than the rule. What is more often the case is that the epynomous lineage in a qabiil is merely the leading group of that qabiil, and lumped in are all that lineage's dependent clans, client clans, allied clans, matrilinear relations not in another qabiil, small lineages requiring protection, completely different ethnic groups also requiring protection, and "adopted" lineages. More often than not the lineage that gives its name to a qabiil is actually in the minority.

This is all rather confusing, which for people who do not understand the subtle distinction between one's actual lineage and qabiil politics, to cast doubt on the lineages rather than peering instead at the structure of the qabiil, which is more of a broad alliance than an extended family.

To summarize, Isaaq "became Irir" because it was convenient for Qabiil politics, and just as quickly discarded "being Irir" once it no longer held any political gain.