BV Come in.. poll is homosexuality

[SultanOrder]

Thank you PO

But for such a daliil to exist in the first place...common sense calmly points out that were this to procede it would be incest of the first kind, incest I assumed was haram in Islam. But yes Allahu aclam, maybe it means something else that my eyes are not picking up But that word 'biological' it's like they/he already know without a shadow of doubt that she's his daughter..and that said shouldn't the father be dead anyway given that he'd be stonned for his extra curricular activities

I'm unsure if I am able to call it "theoretical law" in this case, or if that is the proper term, because it seems that this is based on that ayah in surat Nisa and the ruilings that can be presented from it. Imam Shafi is trying to make the argument that this ayah does not include daughters out of wedlock. But as you can see the ahnaaf (don't know what/who it means/are) say it does.

Ofcourse if it actually came up as a legal matter in the court to a judge, he would see this daliil and then look at the ahnaaf, and also take other factors into consideration before making a verdict. But to the benefit of the judge there is already the legal framework in place to make a verdict.

Also, your only get stoned if you commit adultry, not fornication. One you have to be married, the other you are not married but single.

[BlackVelvet]

Well you get flogged because it says so in the Quran and you get stonned because of a hadith which is a different topic all together.

Imam Shafi is trying to make the argument that this ayah does not include daughters out of wedlock

So does this mean that there are 2 different specific words in Arabic in reference to whether a daughter is born in or out of wedlock and the one used in the Quran is in reference to the daughters born in wedlock?

[SultanOrder]

So does this mean that there are 2 different specific words in Arabic in reference to whether a daughter is born in or out of wedlock and the one used in the Quran is in reference to the daughters born in wedlock?

This is exactly where the whole khilaaf is centered in

Imam Shafi'ee says ... Surat Nisaa.. but by daughters it means those daughters who's lineage is confirmed from a man through legal nikah

Which is when you can say so and so is bint Perfect_Order

...but when a man commits zina and a child is born(in this case a girl) that child will not be considered his legal child in shariat, but rather it will be attributed towards the mother

Which means that she cannot be Bint Perfect_Order

^This part is considered the Sharia meaning, not the biological meaning

Imam Shafi'ee has took the shar'ee meaning of bint whilst the ahnaaf have took the lagwi meaning of bint. the lagwi meaning = actual meaning of word not the shar'ee definition.

This is where the argument is centered in, whether one should take the linguistic meaning or the shariah meaning. From my understanding I would say "theoretical law", but I'm not familiar with this stuff, and I'm only saying what I have infrenced from the article. I don't see this as an actual ruiling or case but Imam shafici as providing the legal framework, based on the Qur'an and Sunah.

[BlackVelvet]

So from what you've said my understanding is that this is a case where the father denies the daughter therefore not giving her his name so she's not bint PO for instance and the word 'biological' is used in error.

All in all we should be greatful for genetics which would cull any dependance on the liguistics of the issue. Thank God for science.

[SultanOrder]

So from what you've said my understanding is that this is a case where the father denies the daughter therefore not giving her his name so she's not bint PO for instance and the word 'biological' is used in error.

All in all we should be greatful for genetics which would cull any dependance on the liguistics of the issue. Thank God for science.

BV in sharia when a man has a kid out of wedlock that kid doesn't inherit the lineage of the father, it is a punishment to the father that the kid is not named after him, but rather the kid inherits the lineage of the mother (or is known by the mother, not sure exactly). So I can't call any kid that i had out of wedlock bin/bint Perfect_Order even if I want to, shariah won't allow it.

Like I said this is not a case, but a close examination of the ayah in surat nisaa saying who is forbidden to be married. Imam shafi'i's whole argument is that this ayah doesn't unequivacally forbid the marriage of your daughter out of wedlock, while the ahnaaf disagree and say that the use of "daughters" in this ayah includes biological.

BV we don't need to be thankful for genetics, nor does science have anything to do with here. This is just law based on the Ijtihad of Imam Shafi'i which we should thank god for, honestly today is the first day I have heard such a thing and if this actually stands or not we need to ask knowledgeable people.

[BlackVelvet]

BV in sharia when a man has a kid out of wedlock that kid doesn't inherit the lineage of the father, it is a punishment to the father that the kid is not named after him, but rather the kid inherits the lineage of the mother

I didn't know that, I thought that only happens if the father refuses to acknowledge the kid. Didn't think he was not allowed to, safe to say I think that would be more of a punishment for the child and the mother of the child than the father.

Yes we should be thankful for genetics, now we can prove with good accuracy who our biological parents are and hopefully no father will marry his daughter whether or not she was born out of wedlock. The idea that a man's first thought could be 'I want to marry this one' when the issue of her paternity is vague is an odd thing indeed.

[SultanOrder]

You must be really disturbed at the thought

I seen on oprah a man who raped his daughter and had a duaghter with her

[BlackVelvet]

And you're not?

Walahi there are some sick people out there, did you guys here about the guy who locked his daughter in some basement for 24 years had something like 7 kids with her? That one took the cake.

[AhlulbaytSoldier]

Qowmu lut poisons the community.
Its worse than any other disease/virus.
.

[ToughGong]

And you're not?

Walahi there are some sick people out there, did you guys here about the guy who locked his daughter in some basement for 24 years had something like 7 kids with her? That one took the cake.

The Austrian guy,that was some sick mofo,And all the neighbours saying how nice he was and how they couldn't beloeve it

[Cumar-Labasuul]

Regarding incest, the qur'aan mentions it clearly in surah nisaac:

"Forbidden unto you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your fathers sisters and your mothers sisters, and your brothers daughters and your sisters daughters. and your foster mothers and your foster sisters, and the mothers of your wives and your step-daughters, that are your wards, born of your wives unto whom ye have gone in, but if ye have not gone in unto them, no sin shall be on you, and the wives of your sons that are from your own loins, and, also that ye should have two sisters together, except that which hath already passed; verily Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful."

[ToughGong]

Cumar it wasn't about incest,but about certain legal ruling in Islam that are only for the Culema to clarify and which makes the common man suprised and ,scroll up and read some of POs and my examples

[SultanOrder]

And you're not?

Walahi there are some sick people out there, did you guys here about the guy who locked his daughter in some basement for 24 years had something like 7 kids with her? That one took the cake.

The Austrian guy,that was some sick mofo,And all the neighbours saying how nice he was and how they couldn't beloeve it

She went and wrote a book about it, didnt even know she could read or write

But that is unimaginable to be able to do that not only to another living person but your own daughter.

[ToughGong]

And you're not?

Walahi there are some sick people out there, did you guys here about the guy who locked his daughter in some basement for 24 years had something like 7 kids with her? That one took the cake.

The Austrian guy,that was some sick mofo,And all the neighbours saying how nice he was and how they couldn't beloeve it

She went and wrote a book about it, didnt even know she could read or write

But that is unimaginable to be able to do that not only to another living person but your own daughter.

PO cos there's a book out doesn't mean she wrote it though
That man was sick

[Basra-]

[quote="HutuKing01"]Qowmu lut poisons the community.
Its worse than any other disease/virus.
.[/quote]


the irony....