Why does tribalism even exist?

[haxxor]

Saxarlow,
You make very good points. Tribalism is racism; period. Only insecure somalis seek security in tribalism. It might have worked in camel country but in this age, tribalism is a hinder to our development. As regards the Sura of the quran, this is the most abused surah. Allah's tribes were not the sick 4,5 formulae; Somali tribes are no exact; the tribe islam talks about is Somali.

It is funny that if we ask many of the tribalists on this website what their particular tribe have done for them the answer is nothing except tarnish their names, suffering etc.

Emprorer will be the first to admit that his tribal rants and his love for this god is a social construction.

This god of somalis should be faught.

The Al-sheydhaans and the IUC are not free from tribalism.

The Tribes I mentioned in the Surah can be taken in its general meaning- that is,based on blood relations you cannot dislike someone rather you should appreciate/learn about on another.

This 4.5 is a very bad idea. Why does even exist?. It sinks tribalism even more deeper into the Somali psyche. The Somalis need to rally around what commonality they have. Nationalism is also something new to Somalis, speaking the same language or looking the same is clearly not enough for them. What we have seen though is that the most precious and beloved thing to their hearts can unite them, even if it is for a short period of time. And that is Islam. I don't think either that AlShabaab and co. are or were free from tribalism completely but they generally have managed to miraculously put Tribalism/Clannism in the background or even in the dust-bin .

Nationalism wasn't something new. In siad barre days, most people were nationalist instead of tribalist. The very same people, lived along with each others, there is nothing but love between them. It worked very well until siad barre something bad to up north, thus end to nationalism and bringing tribalism back.

I do believe that nationalism is good thing, but it shouldn't become a permanent in future because like tribalism, it will become like a cancer. We need something foundation that lies the steps between tribalism and Ummah, and that is nationalism.

[934]

Nationalism wasn't something new. In siad barre days, most people were nationalist instead of tribalist. The very same people, lived along with each others, there is nothing but love between them. It worked very well until siad barre something bad to up north, thus end to nationalism and bringing tribalism back.

If you honestly believe that tribalism didn't exist during MSB time then someone has been telling you porkies. We had a government and things were a hell of lot better than they are today but by no means was it all rosy.

[TheSultaan]

Actually 4.5 is a great power sharing formula i don't see anything wrong with that Because Somalis are tribal Minded People and each clan wants its share so its a great way of sharing power.

[haxxor]

Nationalism wasn't something new. In siad barre days, most people were nationalist instead of tribalist. The very same people, lived along with each others, there is nothing but love between them. It worked very well until siad barre something bad to up north, thus end to nationalism and bringing tribalism back.

If you honestly believe that tribalism didn't exist during MSB time then someone has been telling you porkies. We had a government and things were a hell of lot better than they are today but by no means was it all rosy.

Ah, I missed a part about xamar and some other major cities.

[globetrotter2]

Nationalism, patriotism, tribalism and regionalism are all racist concepts.

I must admit that my knowledge of the Quran is limited but I can say with certainity that the notion of "tribes" in that surra does not refer to hawiye, darood, dir, rahanweyn and all the other offshots.
For a starter it says it is a mechanism to know each other i.e. to be able to differentiate who is who; from a somali perspective, we all look relatively alike, we speak the same language and generally we have the same culture; so this falls on its merits.
Secondly, there are those claim that tribes bond people together; isn't this the prelude to corruption and other ills?

And thirdly, the so called somali tribes are social constructions rather facts; hence, the Koran does not apply.

Isn't it funny that somalis run to the koran in order to justify horrible actions? You'd see someone marrying a girl of 13 and claiming that God has given him the right; you'd see someone marrying 4 women while he cannot provide for his children claiming that God has given him that right;

[gobdoon]

With EMPR's Qabiil they are no.1 in Qabyaalad Reer waqooyi qabiil iskama dhaafayan wa ku sexxdan oo ku soo kacan I HAD TRUE STORY HAPPEN TO ME IN 1984 I CAME TO HARGEYSA LOOKING MY COUSIN BUSINESSMAN IN THERE AFTER GIVING HIS FULLNAME I WAS SHOCKED TO BE ASKED ABOUT HIS CLAN AS I VISITED LIVED MONEY SOMALI TOWNS AND CITY AND THAT NEVER HAPPENED TO ME.

[The_Emperior5]

Thats just nonsense somalida. Oo dhan are equal when it comes to clanism but its just reer woqoyi are honest about their opinion when it comes to qabil and reer koonfuur just hide their qabyalaad by. Using sweet talk aboowe macaane

[BlackVelvet]

We are not urban, we are not modern, we are not advanced. We are where Europeans were more than a thousand years ago there is nothing special about the situation we're in. Hopefully we will learn from history so that it doesn't take us a thousand years to get over it.

[globetrotter2]

We are not urban, we are not modern, we are not advanced. We are where Europeans were more than a thousand years ago there is nothing special about the situation we're in. Hopefully we will learn from history so that it doesn't take us a thousand years to get over it.

True; does that mean we are a backward society:

Hubert Spencer wrote many essays at the end of the 19th century in which he made a case for social darwinism; He visited many societies in Africa and did a taxanomy; at the end of the ladder were nomads.

My own theory is that we are still evolving ; we left the monkey stage and have mountains to climb before we evolve into human beings

[Twist]

We are not urban, we are not modern, we are not advanced. We are where Europeans were more than a thousand years ago there is nothing special about the situation we're in. Hopefully we will learn from history so that it doesn't take us a thousand years to get over it.

True; does that mean we are a backward society:

Hubert Spencer wrote many essays at the end of the 19th century in which he made a case for social darwinism; He visited many societies in Africa and did a taxanomy; at the end of the ladder were nomads.

My own theory is that we are still evolving ; we left the monkey stage and have mountains to climb before we evolve into human beings

[globetrotter2]

Twist,
Isn't that true? Our camelherder pride aside, we are losers. If Darwin was alive today, he wouldn't have travelled to the Galapicos and viewed birds. He would have used somalis as examples.

[WiglessBidaar]

Twist,
Isn't that true? Our camelherder pride aside, we are losers. If Darwin was alive today, he wouldn't have travelled to the Galapicos and viewed birds. He would have used somalis as examples.

LOL

I'm tickled by the idea, advanced by these keyboard theologians, that in order to know each other men need tribalism. A novel idea. Do they relate with their parents and teachers on tribal lines? Call me old fashioned, but the surest way to get to know someone is to ask them for their name.

[barakaboy10]

Twist,
Isn't that true? Our camelherder pride aside, we are losers. If Darwin was alive today, he wouldn't have travelled to the Galapicos and viewed birds. He would have used somalis as examples.

what is that supposed to mean? he would have used Somalis as an example of what?

Darwin was nothing more than a confused man.

[BlackVelvet]

We are not urban, we are not modern, we are not advanced. We are where Europeans were more than a thousand years ago there is nothing special about the situation we're in. Hopefully we will learn from history so that it doesn't take us a thousand years to get over it.

True; does that mean we are a backward society:

Hubert Spencer wrote many essays at the end of the 19th century in which he made a case for social darwinism; He visited many societies in Africa and did a taxanomy; at the end of the ladder were nomads.

My own theory is that we are still evolving ; we left the monkey stage and have mountains to climb before we evolve into human beings

I assume you are joking but with SNet one can never be sure.

[Xamud.]

I love my tribe