Debating with Somali atheist.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

of course everybody needs to fullfill the purpose he or she was created but this athiest man said he just want to hear the voice of god. then no one would be athiest according this athiest man..

DR Yalaxoow horta I wonder if Allah loves every human being? even gaalos because allah created them right? Even shaitan used to be wadaad angel now he is shatain?

What if shaitan makes tawbah?

God loves Athiest people more than believers looK Somalia and compare sweden a country whit 95% athiest.. every year sweden throwaways 5 billion dollars worth of CUNTO FREESH AH food while somali(non athiest) die of hunger even innocent children!!

so God loves everybody but sometimes more the athiest thats why he gives them more food they need while thiest somalis he gives them little allahu akbaaaaaar

[grandpakhalif]

Yalaxoow how can Allah love atheist if they die Allah will send them to hellfire jahannam.

[FAH1223]

God loves Athiest people more than believers looK Somalia and compare sweden a country whit 95% athiest.. every year sweden throwaways 5 billion dollars worth of CUNTO FREESH AH food while somali(non athiest) die of hunger even innocent children!!

so God loves everybody but sometimes more the athiest thats why he gives them more food they need while thiest somalis he gives them little allahu akbaaaaaar

you aren't Allah so please don't try to rationale things on his behalf

the gaalo are more just than us Muslims, thats why they are doing better than us... they went past their stage of killing and abusing each other when the Muslims were the most just people on Earth

so things come in cycles and this too shall pass

[DR-YALAXOOW]

What if shaitan makes tawbah?

YAZIDIS which was sect in islam , they belived Satan made Tawbah and God eccepted the saitan towbah. and satan is in janah therefore everybody will go janah no matter what.. YAZIDIIS live in Iraq.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

Yalaxoow how can Allah love atheist if they die Allah will send them to hellfire jahannam.

yes thats possible but athiest believe no hellfire or paradise either. they believe when you die you become like before you born... before you born you did not exist after you die your time will be like before you born(( eber+eber) thats athiest believe

[Substance]

You are right. But the main point still stand, they are created for purpose and they need to fufill that purpose. Just as we are created,allah surely dont need us.

of course everybody needs to fullfill the purpose he or she was created but this athiest man said he just want to hear the voice of god. then no one would be athiest according this athiest man..

Thats was the case prior to Adam(as) was sent to earth. But now instead we are bing tested.

[grandpakhalif]

In the Yazidi belief system, God created the world and it is now in the care of a Heptad of seven Holy Beings, often known as Angels or heft sirr (the Seven Mysteries). Preeminent among these is Tawûsê Melek (frequently known as "Melek Taus" in English publications), the Peacock Angel. According to the Encyclopedia of the Orient,
The reason for the Yazidis reputation of being devil worshipers is connected to the other name of Melek Taus, Shaytan, the same name the Koran has for Satan.[19]
Furthermore, the Yazidi story regarding Tawûsê Melek's rise to favor with God is almost identical to the story of the jinn Iblis in Islam, except that Yazidis revere Tawûsê Melek for refusing to submit to Adam, while Muslims believe that Iblis' refusal to submit caused him to fall out of Grace with God, and to later become Satan himself.[20]
Tawûsê Melek is often identified by Muslims and Christians with Shaitan (Satan). Yazidis, however, believe Tawûsê Melek is not a source of evil or wickedness. They consider him to be the leader of the archangels, not a fallen angel. They are forbidden from speaking the name Shaitan. They also hold that the source of evil is in the heart and spirit of humans themselves, not in Tawûsê Melek. The active forces in their religion are Tawûsê Melek and Sheik Adî.

wallahi I did not know this satanist religion existed thanks yalaxow for informing me about them.

[DR-YALAXOOW]

wallahi I did not know this satanist religion existed thanks yalaxow for informing me about them.

they live in IRAQ. and they are arabs yazidis some people say the founder of this religion is Yaziid ibn mucaawiya ibn sufyaaan thats why they are called YAZIIDIIS

[Arabmann]

they live in IRAQ. and they are arabs yazidis some people say the founder of this religion is Yaziid ibn mucaawiya ibn sufyaaan thats why they are called YAZIIDIIS

Dotoore, a little correction:

The Yazidi (also Yezidi, Kurdish: ئێزیدی or Êzidî) are a Kurdish ethnoreligious group with Indo-Iranian roots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi

So, they couldn't have anything to do with Yaziid ibn mucaawiya ibn sufyaaan (RA).

[DR-YALAXOOW]

Some scholars say their founder was yaziid ibn mucaawiya because they have same name as yazidis wather true or not i dont know.

[Arabmann]

Some scholars say their founder was yaziid ibn mucaawiya because they have same name as yazidis wather true or not i dont know.

Logic would dictate Yazidis (who are Iranians) would never claim yaziid ibn mucaawiya (RA) as the founder of their religion. Dotoore, you're insulting Iranians though you're known to be a supporter.

[SultanOrder]

So I was debating a Somali atheist, respecfully of course. Until he dropped a puzzling question that got me hella stumped. He said, "If God did exist why didn't he use a booming voice to inform the world that they should worship him instead of sending messengers?

I didn't know how to respond.

He also asked, "If God exists why did he place to spy angels if he's All-Hearing and All Seeing.

I was like wtf...

How would you have responded?

The first question is essentially flawed, in that the premise is flawed. If God's existence is in doubt, then the conditions that would cause him to "use a booming voice to inform the world..." is also in doubt. Therefore, one must start with certainity. God exists, or God doesn't exist. But for the sake of argument, let us take their argument at face value and see if we can come to some insight.

Let us first ask ourselves, what conditions are put upon Allah (a)? Can anything other than Allah put conditions on him(b)? And what Conditions is Allah putting on us (c)?

(a) That He should annouce his existence. Two, that He should do it in the manner this atheist proscribes.
-So this atheist is (one) negating the possibility that Allah through his mercy has not announced or made evident His existence to mankind clear but done it through messengers, and (two) that Allah should do what the atheist demands in a matter he sees fitting.

(b) What is the definition of Allah (one)? And what does it mean for anything other than Allah to put conditions on him (two)?
-(one) Allah is the Absolute, the All-Powerful, the Able, the Pre-Existent without origin, the Eternal without end, Imaginations cannot attain Him; comprehensions cannot perceive Him, and much more. (two) For anything other than Allah to put conditions on Him, does it not make Him other than Allah?

(c) That we should worshim Him.
-So Allah in this relationship is the one who Imposes the conditions.

So looking at this question I find the questioner confused and illogical. If Allah is putting conditions on us by the right He is Allah, then we have no right or ability to put conditions on Allah. So how can we question Him for sending messengers, which implies the atheist believes that Allah exists because the messengers that were not sufficient for him. What about what was left behind by the Messengers i.e. the scriptures. Also, the only people that are most in need of such reassurance is those who disbeleive, and those who deny are in the least position to ask for anything since they obviously cannot command Allah to do anything. Whose interest is it to believe? The onus is on us and not on Him, to believe, and to worship, because we are the dependent on the independent, and He is the independent.

[grandpakhalif]

Perfect_Order,

Salam, now to respond to your claim that the said atheist's question was illogical. Why are you putting parameters on his question? He basically said that if Allah truly existed why is he making his existence hidden in various scriptures and archaic 7th century history books? He told me that Allah should be merciful enough to allow everyone a blatant opportunity to believe and be saved.

Also atheists usually follow a linear logical method, wherein they restrict God to their own intellectual limits.

[D-Runner]

The realm of the unseen should remain hidden at all times, no way can a human keep his sanity in a world where the devil, etc. roam seen. Even the angel of death remains hidden from us when we are to leave this wretched world. Praise be to Allah for sheltering us from all things which can scar us mentally.

[SultanOrder]

Perfect_Order,

Salam, now to respond to your claim that the said atheist's question was illogical. Why are you putting parameters on his question? He basically said that if Allah truly existed why is he making his existence hidden in various scriptures and archaic 7th century history books? He told me that Allah should be merciful enough to allow everyone a blatant opportunity to believe and be saved.

Also atheists usually follow a linear logical method, wherein they restrict God to their own intellectual limits.

Salam
Grandpa, I'm trying to show you the simplicity and follies of his weak argument. He put parameters on his own questions without realizing it, and confirmed the existence of Allah. How can you question why something does such and such if it doesn't exist?

Allah's existence is evident or hidden in relation to the one witnessing's perception, understanding or reasoning. If I were to say that there is a tree by such and such a description in a location, can you deny or confrim it's existence if you never saw it? Your confirmation or denial is subject to your witnessing, and not the tree existenting or not existenting. Now imagine that you are sent someone who comes and confirms for you, and then after some goading by you that person brings back proof in the form of a twig or leaf from this tree? Now you have little room to deny it's existence, but still are not at the full witnessing of it, now the onus is on you to go on the journey towards that tree to confirm it or not. The proof is in the pudding. So tell me, does the messenger, the twig or leaf from the tree hiding the existence of the tree or making it evident that the tree exists? So how can one say that Allah is "[hidding] his existence in various scriptures..". Is the glass half empty or half-full? Well, if the glass was fully empty and then it was filled halfway, what whould you say it is?
Also, to say the Quran is "archaic", is to say that it is "No longer current or applicable; antiquated". Now if it severs as proof that Allah exists, for every age and time after it's revelation, has it become "archaic"?

Now for "He told me that Allah should be merciful enough to allow everyone a blatant opportunity to believe and be saved." What is his proof? I say that the great majority of Mankind believe in a Diety one way or another from antiquity to now, is proof of his mercy that Allah is making himself evident, has made himself evident, and given him blatant opportunity to beleive and be saved. Since he cannot think like a diety, nor comprehend the motives of a deity, nor understand the mercy of a deity, how can negate Allah's mercy. If we are to look at the world that is thus created and existing, by what measure can he measure Allah's mercy?