Iran bans 'Da Vinci Code' !!!!!!!

[Gamadid.]

[quote="MAD MAC, You believe that a person should not fight and kill unless the cause is justified. I do not. That is, I would think, a significant departure.>>


Based on your reply above, one concludes you would kill someone justified or not. Significant departure indeed.


<<I have my red lines, but we have not even come close to them yet. Invading Iraq, attacking Aghanistan, fighting the SNA......never a problem for me. >>



That is because of your low standard in deciding what is morally right or wrong. Money is more improtant.




<<I will NEVER become a Muslim. That doctrine is hopelessly flawed. Nor do I think our creator seeks obedience.>>



Many are not meant to be a muslim anyway, so you aren't unique. As for islam being hopelessly flawed, it is the other way around and you are confused. It is easy to lay the blame on what you don't understand. Saying "I think" is not an answer one can rely on. The essence of religion is to worship God. It entails humility and obidience. If you are too proud to undetake such practices, then you would miss the wisdom behind belief. Why would you believe in a creator if you weren't accepting the duties he placed upon you as a beleiver?

Anyway, don't like religious debates You will have to find your way on your own, I neither do own the means to debate nor can convince you anything about islam. Simply, islam is a gift of God and only those who are lucky find it in their heart to proclaim their belief in the One true God.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"Many are not meant to be a muslim accepting the message anyway, so you aren't unique. As for islam being hopelessly flawed, it is the other way around and you are confused. It is easy to lay the blame on what you don't understand. "

This is one of the many reasons why Muslims can't get along with anyone in the world. They see everyone who is not a Muslim or rejects Islam as somehow flawed. Thus they see themselves superior.

You guys are going to need that air of superiority to get you through what is likely to be a number of very trying years in the future. Brought on by your own ignorance.

[Gamadid.]

Saying "I think" is not an answer one can rely on. The essence of religion is to worship God. It entails humility and obidience. If you are too proud to undetake such practices, then you would miss the wisdom behind belief. Why would you believe in a creator if you weren't accepting the duties he placed upon you as a beleiver?

Anyway, don't like religious debates You will have to find your way on your own, I neither do own the means to debate nor can convince you anything about islam. Simply, islam is a gift of God and only those who are lucky find it in their heart to proclaim their belief in the One true God.


And no, muslims don't have an air of superiority that prevents them from getting along with people. It is the nonmuslims who mostly think that way.


We share with all humanity the coming trying years and possess better means to survive, RELIANCE ON THE CREATOR and will live dignified, and if death visits us, it is natural, we were bound to die anyway We shall meet God which equates to nothing. but what a guy like you will do when he meets God and he screwed up his palce with his creator?

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"Saying "I think" is not an answer one can rely on. The essence of religion is to worship God. It entails humility and obidience. If you are too proud to undetake such practices, then you would miss the wisdom behind belief. Why would you believe in a creator if you weren't accepting the duties he placed upon you as a beleiver? "

So God gave us an intellect, but he doesn't want us to use it? What's wrong with that picture?

"Anyway, don't like religious debates You will have to find your way on your own, I neither do own the means to debate nor can convince you anything about islam. Simply, islam is a gift of God and only those who are lucky find it in their heart to proclaim their belief in the One true God. "

I would say only those unfortunate enough to have been born into a Muslim family, but whatever.

"And no, muslims don't have an air of superiority that prevents them from getting along with people. It the nonmuslims who mostly think that way. "

Get out of here. Do you read what you write? Full of pontification about the superiority of Islam, which just so happens to be your way.

"We share with all humanity in the coming trying years and possess better means to survive, RELIANCE ON THE CREATOR and living dignified, and if death visits us, it is natural, we were bound to die anyway We shall meet God which equates to nothing. but what a guy like you will do when he meets God and he screwed up his palce with his creator?"

I tend to sympathize with the Bhudist point of view concerning reincarnation. I don't believe in the day of Judgement. And I don't think God is to be feared. God is good, and you don't fear good.

[Gamadid.]

[quote="MAD MAC"]"So God gave us an intellect, but he doesn't want us to use it? What's wrong with that picture?"


You missed my point. I was replying to your repartee of "Nor do I think our creator seeks obedience". Sometimes, what you think won't be the answer you are looking for but seeking clarifications and looking matters from different perspectives might give you a clue or two. That is what I meant when I tried to explain a bit that obidience to God comes with one's belief. You have to Understand and know about God to believe in Him to begin with. They said "faith" is what settles in the "heart" and shows itself through actions/deeds. Faith translates into action/obidience/folliwng god's directives. Does this make sense now? This is where obedience to God comes from.

"I would say only those unfortunate enough to have been born into a Muslim family, but whatever."


Are you trying to get even by saying this to me? Try different Mad. You wouldn't know a gold mine if you saw one.



<<"Get out of here. Do you read what you write? Full of pontification about the superiority of Islam, which just so happens to be your way.">>




you are wrong Mad. I contend it is still what you think. You have issues with islam so you approach muslims with suspicion. It is all in your head.



<<I tend to sympathize with the Bhudist point of view concerning reincarnation. I don't believe in the day of Judgement. And I don't think God is to be feared. God is good, and you don't fear good.>>>




Do you believe human beings were created by God? If your answer is yes, then it shouldn't be difficult to comprehend that your return as Mad Mac fully complete won't be an issue with the Creator who created you to begin with. It is that simple, whoever is able to begin something without copying others is able to recreate the origianl after it disappears. Simple common sense my friend. What do you say?

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"You have to Understand and know about God to believe in Him to begin with"

It is beyond the capacity of man to understand or know God. You should know that.

I believe in God, because I do not believe that nothing comes from nothing. There are some reasons to believe that some sort of divine inspirations stands behind the creation of the universe.

"They said "faith" is what settles in the "heart" and shows itself through actions/deeds. Faith translates into action/obidience/folliwng god's directives. Does this make sense now? This is where obedience to God comes from. "

Never trust your heart. It will lie to you every time.

"Do you believe human beings were created by God?"

No, not directly. I think God set the wheels in motion. I think that he created man in the same way as he created dogs.

"If your answer is yes, then it shouldn't be difficult to comprehend that your return as Mad Mac fully complete won't be an issue with the Creator who created you to begin with. It is that simple, whoever is able to begin something without copying others is able to recreate the origianl after it disappears. Simple common sense my friend. What do you say?"

If I did think he created me, though, I would say that if God created me, then HE is responsible for the way I am. And if HE knew in advance what I would think and what decisions I would make, then HE is responsible for the outcome. You can not create a creature the way you want it, know in advance what it will decide, and then penalize it for that decision. This is grossly illogical. God would have to be a total and complete idiot to concoct such a scheme. And if God were a total and comlete idiot, then he wouldn't be God. This world is not a "test". That is a flawed notion from the Judeo-Christian culture.

[Mowhawk]

Back to the Da Divnci code topic.

I read the book and to be honest, I did not find it offensive, and not definitely on the allegations that prophet Isse pbuh married Mary Magdelene. There is no evidence in the Quraan or Sunah that implied prophet Isse pbuh was married, or not. Today, many Christians view it offensive because they believe that prophet Isse pbuh was the Son of God. Muslims donÂ’t.

But this sheikh below sensibly argues that it is a work of fiction on the life of a prophet, and that makes it to be offensive;

“It has fictionalized his life and story, and in this sense, it has downgraded this great messenger of Allah.”

“There are two things that I would like to say about The Da Vinci Code. One is positive and the other is negative. The positive thing is that it says that for the first four centuries, Jesus was known only as a prophet of God, and not God. At the Council of Nicea around the year 325 CE, the Emperor Constantine and some bishops changed the true teachings of Jesus.”

Although the Qur'an does not say anything about Jesus's marriage, his wife, or his children (neither does the New Testament), there is nothing wrong, from the Islamic point of view, if he were married and had children. Allah says in the Qur'an, (We did send Messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a Messenger to bring a Sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed)) (Hud 13:38).

Some Christians consider this story about Jesus to be blasphemous. According to them, to say that Jesus was married means that he is not God. Although they say that God had a son, they say that Jesus could not have had a son. However, as Muslims, we say that just because Jesus wasn't married doesn't make him God. Prophet Yahya (John the Baptist), who was Jesus' contemporary, was not married, yet no one considered him to be divine.

There is, however, a negative side of The Da Vinci Code, that we as Muslims should criticize. The Da Vinci Code is a novel, a work of fiction. It does not present facts about Jesus's life in a serious and respectful manner. It has fictionalized his life and story, and in this sense, it has downgraded this great messenger of Allah.

The author of The Da Vinci Code took some historical facts and then spun a mystery story to thrill and chill his readers. Allah's prophets and His messengers should not be treated in this manner. They are entitled to receive utmost honor and respect from us. It is for this reason that Islam forbids making pictures of Allah's prophets and messengers and also forbids creating fictitious stories and movies about them. Islam teaches us that we should present the prophets' life stories with great care, respect, and the utmost authenticity. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Convey from me even if it is one verse. Speak about Bani Israel without any hesitation; but whosoever tells a lie about me, let him prepare his place in Hell" (Al-Bukhari 3202).

Read the whole article here.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/cont ... le01.shtml

Mac is a Theist (whatever that means) and believes in the Thomas Paine Ministries; and due to its wobbly foundations, he thinks everyone is in a boat like him. It is called insecurity.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

“There are two things that I would like to say about The Da Vinci Code. One is positive and the other is negative. The positive thing is that it says that for the first four centuries, Jesus was known only as a prophet of God, and not God. At the Council of Nicea around the year 325 CE, the Emperor Constantine and some bishops changed the true teachings of Jesus.”

This is not completely true. The truth is there were MANY Christian thoughts running around prior to Nicea, including the school that said that Jesus was the son of God. Jesus left a great impression, but it does not appear that he wrote anything himself. And his ministry period was short. The treaty of Nicea simply tried to tidy up the great many loose ends that existed at that time.

This is similar to Islam, where the Qur'an and the Hadith were formally compiled after the Prophets death during the reign of the four rightly guided Caliphs. This is why there were initially differing versions of the Qur'an and they were ordered destroyed after the final compilation was "blessed" (so to speak). The big difference was that Mohammeds ministry lasted a lot longer than Jesus' did, and that the compilation took place in a short time frame by people who were mostly alive and knew the Mohammed.

And Mohawk, I am a Deist. This was the belief of great minds such as Rousseau. Show a little respect for those of us who choose to use our intellects.

[The rebel]

You're just a waste of time, as long as you're like this. I sincerely hope people eventually respond to your senseless posts less & less, till you are basically left alone.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Hasn't happened in the 7 years I have been here, but you can always hope.

[Mowhawk]

Mac

"And Mohawk, I am a Deist. This was the belief of great minds such as Rousseau. Show a little respect for those of us who choose to use our intellects."

My bad, I meant a Deist. I did Western philosophy for two years in high school, and that was enough. According to your heroes or great minds from what I understood, I thik it is time for you to combat in the home-front and save America; only if you believe in them. Today, America is held hostage and hijacked by the Far Right Christian Organizations, and one might think that Rousseau and Thomas Paine must be pissed off. We all know George Bush's biggest supporters. Help them, Go for “Jihad”, or “Just War” and protect America on their name from the terrorists such as Pat Robertson and the club 40 or something. They fought fr the seperation of powers, Church and State. Let us test your loyalty.

For your information, there were no differeing versions of the Quraan, but were written in different dialects which may have given to different meaning. A standard Arabic version was chosen. We read the same Quraan from Kismayo to Chechnya.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"My bad, I meant a Deist. I did Western philosophy for two years in high school, and that was enough. According to your heroes or great minds from what I understood, I thik it is time for you to combat in the home-front and save America; only if you believe in them. Today, America is held hostage and hijacked by the Far Right Christian Organizations, and one might think that Rousseau and Thomas Paine must be pissed off. We all know George Bush's biggest supporters. Help them, Go for “Jihad”, or “Just War” and protect America on their name from the terrorists such as Pat Robertson and the club 40 or something. They fought fr the seperation of powers, Church and State. Let us test your loyalty. "

Sorry buddy. I have better things to do with my time (like getting laid) than wasting it arguing with religious whackos. The 700 Club, Pat Robertson, etc. they can all sock my d!ck. I am not interesting in talking to those whackos even a little bit. They're are as focked up as the Muslim psychos, but they don't blow themselves up.

"For your information, there were no differeing versions of the Quraan, but were written in different dialects which may have given to different meaning. A standard Arabic version was chosen. We read the same Quraan from Kismayo to Chechnya."

WRONG. There were differing versions and they were ordered destroyed. I'll research for you and find out who ordered them destroyed. It came fom the original compilation, where there were some disagreements as to what the Prophet said, or where different individuals wrote down different or contradicting quotes.

[Gacalisa]

That exactly what i am saying the whole time, that the work being fiction adn that everything said in it is false is what makes is offensive.


the whole book is a lie, nothing to back up exactly what he said or to explain his theory of codes by Da Vinci. and who knows if Da Vinci himself was aware of the specalations the book makes.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"That exactly what i am saying the whole time, that the work being fiction adn that everything said in it is false is what makes is offensive. "

It's FICTION. It's a story. It's not suppose to be real. It just uses a real framework to make the story and interesting read. And everything in it isn't false, some is fact, some is speculation, and some is false. It isn't designed to influence, it is designed to ENTERTAIN.

Should all works of fiction be banned because they are "false"?

[Gacalisa]

Yes, if they are in reference to the Prophets or a diety that someone has respect for.


even though many non-fictions that claim to be true are false, but that doesnt change the fact that this book was offensive.


I mean its offensive to everyone, we all have our own opinion, and I believe it to be offensive, if not to you or to Muslims then to me it is, period.