Al-shabab Targets Somali Christians

[Shirib]

Shirib,

Yep, America is great. Let us see if Shabab would allow you to speak your mind.

I'm not leaving America abti, and people were being persecuted in Somalia before Shabaab, its just in the forefront now

[JaMaaL-23]

From a reader of the above article

But the article needed to give the readers a little more depth and background to the issue. Somalia always had about fifty Christian families converted by missionaries during the colonial era. They lived in complete harmony(not tolerance harmony)with their Muslim countrymen. Their faith was a non issue as it should be. In fact many Christians, particularly those from Somaliland in the North were amongst the most prominent citizens of the land. One such family, known to every Somali are the Marianos Family and most prominent amongst them was Michael. He was a head of a major political party in Somaliland before the territory was gobbled up by the Italian ruled South Somalia. When some of his political foes mentioned his faith in rallies(not in a vicious way but more in a whisper and wink sort of way) his supporters hit back with a famous chant "Michael is a christian/.... so effing what? What matters is act and deed not any man's faith" It rhymes beter in Somali. This was late 1950s.

But today even in relatively peaceful and generally more sober Somaliland, Christians have to hide their faith. Dumb, ill-trained Police thugs and even dumber self-styled Wahabbist vigilante thugs capture bibles and sometimes arrest worshippers. Most are released after few hours but it shows how the whole country lurched into wahabbist bent over the last twenty years or so.

But the poor people being beheaded by Al Shabab do not come from Somaliland's elite christian families. they are destitute families converted through coercion, bribery and manipulation(no other words for it)by selfish, blind, cruel evangelical groups. It is exploitation of the poor of the worst kind. These are not people who carried out research, read bibles out of their own volition, compared it with other faiths and ideas and then made informed choices about their belief systems. They are starving peasants offered food and medicine wrapped in bibles they cant read and then converted in that shabby way.

If these evangelicals cared about human life anymore than the shababs why didnt they stop converting these people? why expose the poorest of the poor to such life-threatening danger?

All religions are equally evil. It is just some are more equally so than others.

Seems Shababs are killing masaakiin laba kiilo oo bur ah lagu christaamiyay. Finding few Jehovah witness booklets are enough to convict the victim.

[rabanam]

JaMaaL-23, Al-Shabaab didn't sign laws protecting Somali Christians. Why blame them?

[Padishah]

]AbdiWahab252, I beg to differ. You can't practice what's halal in the West, instead, you can practice what's haram. For instance, you can't legally marry more than one (which Islam allows), but you can have as many girlfriends and father as many illegitimates.

Rabanam, I think you have gone and confused yourself. Muslims are not supposed to practise haram, whether its legal or not in the jurisdiction you reside. As for not being able to practice polygyny, that has very little to do with worship, which is the specific freedom granted.

There is the argument that the state has no business deciding what constitutes a marriage, but that is a separate and unrelated issue.

JaMaaL-23, Al-Shabaab didn't sign laws protecting Somali Christians. Why blame them?

Simply, going round killing people based on flimsy evidence, and for a matter of conscience is wrong, whether there is a law against it or not.

You fail at ethics Rabanam.

[nomadicwarlord]

Real mosques needs to be built in Mogadishu, to give a chance for Al-Shabaab and its supporters find Allah.

[Shonuff]

somali christians? lol christian publications are more delusional than those who believe somaliland is a country.

[rabanam]

As for not being able to practice polygyny, that has very little to do with worship, which is the specific freedom granted.

You're mistaken. Polygamy has a lot to do with worship; it prevents a Muslim (financially capable of polygamy) from committing sins, contracting diseases (STD, Aids, etc), fathering illegitimate children, etc. If you're caught practicing polygamy in th West, you get arrested, sentenced and sent to prison. Nothing harm comes to you if the authorities learn you have multiple girlfriends and have fathered numerous illegitimate children.

Simply, going round killing people based on flimsy evidence, and for a matter of conscience is wrong, whether there is a law against it or not.

People have different conscience or standards; you can't expect everyone to adhere to Western conscience or standards. What Western conscience views as moral, others view it as immoral. What Western conscience view as normal (like abortion), others view it as inhumane and barbaric. And it doesn't necessarily mean Western conscience or standards is better or the right one.

[Padishah]

You're mistaken.

Let's see then, shall we?

Polygamy has a lot to do with worship;

Firstly, do you what is meant by the word worship Rabanam?

it prevents a Muslim (financially capable of polygamy) from committing sins

This implies that a man financially capable of polygamy, but in a monogamous relationship already is prone to committing sexual sin. So, the more money a man earns, the higher his sex drive, which then necessitates marriage to further wives? This frankly, is the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.

contracting diseases (STD, Aids, etc)

You're actually serious, aren't you?

fathering illegitimate children, etc.

How does having multiple wives prevent sexual indiscretion?

If you're caught practicing polygamy in th West, you get arrested, sentenced and sent to prison.

Its illegal to for the one person to contract multiple marriages. Going against the law is a sure fire way to be arrested and thrown in the state's prisons.

Nothing harm comes to you if the authorities learn you have multiple girlfriends and have fathered numerous illegitimate children.

These things are not illegal. Why would the state be interested in the legitimacy of your children?

People have different conscience or standards; you can't expect everyone to adhere to Western conscience or standards.

Who says that only Western standards espouse that people should be free from being killed arbitrarily because of what they believe? Its a basic principle of justice that people aren't deprived of their lives based on the whims of a bunch of self-appointed people.

And it doesn't necessarily mean Western conscience or standards is better or the right one.

Who has argued that Western standards is better, or more correct?

[JaMaaL-23]

Comments made by reader of the bove article has turned into a Israelis v/s Christians

Qoutes

This is enough. The only evidence you guys have is name calling. How old are you guys, 5 years old? I provided links and facts FROM ISRAEL about the persecutions of Christians.

The persecution of Christians from Muslims is horrible, and so is the persecution of Christians from Israelis. I can't comprehend why you guys brought up how righteous Israel is and then you guys get offended when I bring up the facts that Christians ARE PERSECUTED IN ISRAEL.

If you guys want to talk about how righteous Israel is in a topic that isn't even about Israel, but rather about Muslims persecuting Christians, don't get offended when someone brings up the facts that Israelis also persecute Christians just like Muslims.

I already did state my anger at the killings of Christians in Somalia. As a Christian myself I am deeply offended when people target Christians because of our belief that Christ is the Messiah.

What I am offended even more is you trying to cover up atrocities against Christians and I believe your hatred of Muslims is the only reason why your posting in this topic. Are you Christian? Or do you hate Muslims more than you hate Christians so you are just posting in this forum to try to spread your hate-speech?

As an Atheist, I deplore the actions of one religion against another. These actions lessen us all as humans.

However, to pun a phrase and act as devils advocate. I wonder how the Somalian powers would react if their people who have fled to mainly Christian nations, would act if Muslims were executed as a form of karma. Would they continue these actions? I doubt it! Though this would never happen (not lawfully anyway) due to the nature of the peoples and governments in place.

Of course the UN backed government cant do or say much, its not in their best interests being of both a similar mind and the numbers that also believe this is the right way among the people.

Israel is not much better in its actions, namely its occupation of a country and theft of that countries land pushing the former land owners into destitute conditions, as long as this continues the and is "swept under the carpet" the Islamic extremists will continue to find their voices heard, and thus will situations like those of Somalia conintue. Those "elected" governments of Gaza and the PA are just as legit as and "democratic" as that of Israel.

caadi ma aha gaaladi maxaad moodaa in ay wax soo fahmayaan.

[rabanam]

Who says that only Western standards espouse that people should be free from being killed arbitrarily because of what they believe? Its a basic principle of justice that people aren't deprived of their lives based on the whims of a bunch of self-appointed people.

Islam has a different standard when it comes to a Muslim who renounces Islam and converts to another religion. Islam doesn't subscribe to the Western standard that a Muslim who abandons Islam should be left in peace. There's a hudud prescription for such a Muslim. So, you're mistaken when you claim non-Western standards (in this case Islam) espouse that a Muslim who abandons Islam should be free from being killed arbitrarily because of what he/she believes.

[Voltage]

Padishah, why are you wasting your time on a person who is either 1.) a khawaarij or a 2.) small time informant designed to make support things you normally would not?

Either way I would not associate or pay attention to him.

[BODHI]

Who says that only Western standards espouse that people should be free from being killed arbitrarily because of what they believe? Its a basic principle of justice that people aren't deprived of their lives based on the whims of a bunch of self-appointed people.

Islam has a different standard when it comes to a Muslim who renounces Islam and converts to another religion. Islam doesn't subscribe to the Western standard that a Muslim who abandons Islam should be left in peace. There's a hudud prescription for such a Muslim. So, you're mistaken when you claim non-Western standards (in this case Islam) espouse that a Muslim who abandons Islam should be free from being killed arbitrarily because of what he/she believes.

SO WAIT IN ISLAM IF ONE CONVERTS FROM THE RELIGION THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE KILLED? WOW NO WONDER CHRISTIANS, JEWS, HINDU'S, AND ETC BELIEVE ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE NOT ONE OF PEACE

[JaMaaL-23]

Bodhi

what do you beleive? is Islam a religion of peace? or Religion of voilence?

[rabanam]

SO WAIT IN ISLAM IF ONE CONVERTS FROM THE RELIGION THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE KILLED? WOW NO WONDER CHRISTIANS, JEWS, HINDU'S, AND ETC BELIEVE ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE NOT ONE OF PEACE

That's the law in Islam. A similar law existed in those other religions (I don't know about Hinduism), but it were changed. The law in Islam cannot be changed, because it's impossible to change Islam.

In addition to the Jewish tradition inherited through the Old Testament, Christian governments, sometimes with the approval of the Church, have punished both apostates and heretics individually and in campaigns such as the Inquisition and the Albigensian Crusade. The Byzantine Emperor Justinian I instituted the punishment of death for apostasy in the very first law of the Corpus Juris Civilis (Body of Civil Law), his code that formed a basis for several European countries' laws for many centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#In_Christianity

[BODHI]

Bodhi

what do you beleive? is Islam a religion of peace? or Religion of violence?

VIOLENCE I MEAN ITS ALL I SEE HOW ABOUT YOU