Reflecting on December 26th, 1990!

[muslim-man]

That is besides the point abdi, the pointis, your indefference to the sad sad situation we are immersed
inn mentioned by koronto

[Koronto77]

AW,

Obsessing over Jaberti will not help the Hawiye masses that have had to deal with abuse & injustice by their own saviors for close to 2 decades. At the end of the day, Xamar is still a shithole and your people have suffered as a direct result of the civil war more than Jabertis. The USC revolution did not in anyway improve the plight of the Hawiye, it actually made it worse.

Correct me if I'm wrong here; life for the average Hawiye person was much better prior to December 26th, 1990 than it was after. Isn't that true?

Keeping in mind, average as in a hard-working person, not as in a mooryaan. I'm talking about eedo Maka Ciire who was my local milk lady and never in her life had to steal or loot, but later died from a shell shrapnel during the Aideed vs Ali Mahdi fiasco of 1992.

[AbdiWahab252]

Muslim-man,

Koronto's assertion is offensive to those SPM brothers who lost their lives in the war against Dictatorship, Godless Marxism

[muslim-man]

Any1 with a sane mind will admit those spm guys have misjudged the far reaching impliacations their illthought mission will have on the masses and the future of the nation

[Voltage]

Otherwise, you wouldn't be watching the clock tick by in Virginia, when you could very well be enjoying the fruits of your revolution in Xamar with a cool glass of spermuta. The USC you worship were nothing short of goons & social rejects who did nothing but bring death & destruction to your own people.

Real Talk.

Vagrants and street urchins banded together in ragtag rebel army where clan fission led to the disintegration of the Somali national army resulted in the most embarrassing and shocking social and political retardation of any state and society in modern Human history.

The results reflects the intellectual and social condition of its precursors. And where did the people who now defend these country pumpkin vagrants cowtail to after the infamous retardation and its adherents had subjected themselves on the Somali people? Why right after the elite who vacated the nation for them.

[AbdiWahab252]

Koronto77,

Well, there are no more massacres in my ancestral villages in Mudug. There are more schools, more health facilities, in those areas than under the dictatorship. I can now call those same villages. Commerce and trade is booming than under the MSB dictatorship.

So some indicators have improved after the thieving Jaberti dictatorship was deposed which previously had misused State resources and prioritized assisting Ethiopian refugees in Somalia the expense of the natives.

So how do you explain the Jaberti campaign of 1991-1992 ? Or the Jaberti involvement to support the international intervention in 1992 which dragged on the Somali civil war which would have come to an end in 1993 if there had been no intervention.

[Koronto77]

SPM were nothing short of goons, so were SSDF and SNM. They all had 1 thing in common: to get to power by any means necessary. It didn't matter if all of Somalia went to hell with them or how many died in the process. All that mattered was for the leadership to replace MSB. It was motivated by greed, if any of these movements were sincere, Somalia would have survived the war and these groups would have formed a cohesive & productive government.

The integrity of Somalia was compromised, that's why it all went to hell.

[AbdiWahab252]

Koronto77,

What about the injustices committed by the MSB & Jaberti prior to 1991 ?

Who did not allow free and fair elections ? Who arrested those who wanted peaceful change ? It was MSB and he used force to exert his rule.

[Alluring]

AbdiWahab does not only represent himself, sadly he represents the beliefs and attitudes of 90% of his cohorts. Take a look at the Hawiye confederation, a bunch of idiots who have the freedom to access the internet.

[Koronto77]

Whatever injustices that were commited under MSB were commited by the government. The government contained Hawiye, Daarood & Isaaq. The man who prosecuted & ordered the public execution of the 10 religious clerics in '78 was none other than Nuur Cadde himself who was at the time Somalia's attorney general. Many of those who snitched on the SNM and took part in the injustices in the North were either Isaaq or Samaroon. It was a collective government and there were many injustices no doubt.

But to claim we gained something from the civil war or that we are better off is very ludicrous. MSB's time was already up, it was only a matter of time before his time came or was replaced. It wasn't worth to lose everything in the process. How many sacad died since '91? What you mention about achievements in Mudug are fairytales. Before it was about Hawiye vs Daarood. Now you leave out Hawiye and only mention Sacad. Not that it makes any difference. I can bet you most of those made homeless at Ceelasha Biyaha were your own kin.

[Voltage]

Obsessing over Jaberti will not help the Hawiye masses that have had to deal with abuse & injustice by their own saviors for close to 2 decades. At the end of the day, Xamar is still a shithole and your people have suffered as a direct result of the civil war more than Jabertis. The USC revolution did not in anyway improve the plight of the Hawiye, it actually made it worse.

And this is the glaring paradox. Does Abdiwahab then have sympathy for the masses he wishes to represent or is he then after consoloing tribal egos he felt must be defended against glorification of what he subconsciously believes to be already glorified Somali elites of different tribal composition even if his subconscious measurement of such a comparison is unwarranted?

No, it is clear he has no sympathy for the masses he wishes to represent. No one has suffered more than the people of Hawiye composition in civil war Somalia. From destructive urban war to rape of and theft of girls and resources by very own clansmen with one such mind-boggling occurrence of "pay-checkpoint-bribe-by-measurement-of-weight" happening and being undertaken by very own clan militias against those helpless of their own clans in the their own clan sections of Mogadishu announcing itself to the shock of both Somalis in and foreigners outside of Somalia.

The man is content eating his watermelon and drinking his kool aid among the inner city ghettos of the North America. Why should he feel for the masses he claims to represent even at the expense of what they believe to be the legacy of those that put them in that situation?

He is only concerned with watching the ego he feels will be bruised by what he considers to be capitulation to truth that will vindicate those he subconsciously believes to be "already glorified elites".

It is a sad state of affairs.

[AbdiWahab252]

Koronto,

You seem to spread the blame pre1991 problems among different groups and yet you want to make the post1991 problems exclusive to the USC ?

What gave MSB the right to destroy the state instead of walking away peacefully like Mengistu Haile Mariam ?

[Alluring]

Everything will fall on deaf ears, Koronto. This guy cannot understand nor will he ever understand the magnitude the civil war had on the country. He only sees that he has benefited because let us be realistic, this guy does not have the ambition or the dignity to work hard and make something of himself, and Somalia was a nation that in order to get a good life you'd have to work hard each and every day. Now he is in a country where he gets checks delivered to him monthly, and he takes some of that money to flirt with women. His life is much better than it would have EVER been.

[Twisted_Logic]

Whatever injustices that were commited under MSB were commited by the government. The government contained Hawiye, Daarood & Isaaq. The man who prosecuted & ordered the public execution of the 10 religious clerics in '78 was none other than Nuur Cadde himself who was at the time Somalia's attorney general. Many of those who snitched on the SNM and took part in the injustices in the North were either Isaaq or Samaroon. It was a collective government and there were many injustices no doubt.

But to claim we gained something from the civil war or that we are better off is very ludicrous. MSB's time was already up, it was only a matter of time before his time came or was replaced. It wasn't worth to lose everything in the process. How many sacad died since '91? What you mention about achievements in Mudug are fairytales. Before it was about Hawiye vs Daarood. Now you leave out Hawiye and only mention Sacad. Not that it makes any difference. I can bet you most of those made homeless at Ceelasha Biyaha were your own kin.

Seriously? There was no clan ideology behind the MSB atrocities? I fail to see how a grown-up man who wants to "reflect" about the sad failure of Somalia can make such a hallow assertion.

[Koronto77]

Vagrants and street urchins banded together in ragtag rebel army where clan fission led to the disintegration of the Somali national army resulted in the most embarrassing and shocking social and political retardation of any state and society in modern Human history.

I realized most of these people who start rebel groups or even religious groups are either wanted individuals or criminals. That explains their suicidal mentality and greed. These men know they are hunted individuals who'll never have freedom, so what do they do? They turn their own personal war in to a national desire. By masquarading themselves as either clan/nationalist/religious saviors.

Good examples are the leadership of Alshabaab, Al-Qaeda & the Taliban. They are all marked men, they know this, they then hide behind Islam to cause destruction. Employing suicide bombings & whatever it takes, they have nothing to lose while you have everything to live for. They're masterminds of deception & prey on the weak.

Same thing with the USC & SNM leadership, they turned their own personal war in to a national one, by preying on clan hostilities.